Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

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mloving2
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Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby mloving2 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:17 pm

My grandparents have been my guardians for all my life, but they are retired now. I got into Texas Tech Law and will need full loans to pay for law school. I will be married in a few years and she will have about a 45k salary (85% chance). I've been out of undergrad for about a year and will start in in the fall (i made almost nothing since diploma).

Is it even possible to get loans for tuition as well as living for this much (I fully plan to live on bread and water)? From what I understand, TT is about 23,000 a year.

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dr123
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby dr123 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:18 pm

How does she have an 85 percent chance at a 45k job? Wut?

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YankeesFan
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby YankeesFan » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:26 pm

If your asking if the Dept. of Education will give you enough to cover cost of attendance, the answer is yes. If you are asking if that is a good decision, the answer is probably no.

mloving2
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby mloving2 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:34 pm

dr123 wrote:How does she have an 85 percent chance at a 45k job? Wut?


I was just saying that at some point in my LS career I'll have a wife in west texas that will be making some money. I'm not banking on her to $$ support me, but I think it would factor in to all of this, since I'll need help to eat and pay for internet.

Also I'd like to note, i'm not planning on being the richest attorney ever. I'm very ok with a lot of my salary going to repaying loans and what not if I can at least live like I'm making about 40k a year, even if I'm making more.

What I'd really like to know is am I going to have to pull a lot of strings to get this done, or are there a bunch of people like me that do this all the time?

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Br3v
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby Br3v » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:43 pm

mloving2 wrote: since I'll need help to eat and pay for internet.


I don't even.

But yes, you can take out enough loans to cover it, but you should look at the employment statistics of that school and determine the chance of you getting a job that you will be able to pay off your loans.

mloving2
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby mloving2 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:51 pm

I don't even.

But yes, you can take out enough loans to cover it, but you should look at the employment statistics of that school and determine the chance of you getting a job that you will be able to pay off your loans.[/quote]


I've really looked at it a lot. Big Law is not in my future, I know that and accept it. Are you saying that because you think it'll be impossible to pay my loans off? Or if I do I'll have to live a life of poverty? I've been really focused on getting in, and I'm just now getting my head around the idea of paying for it.

please elaborate

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Br3v
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby Br3v » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:57 pm

mloving2 wrote:
I've really looked at it a lot. Big Law is not in my future, I know that and accept it. Are you saying that because you think it'll be impossible to pay my loans off? Or if I do I'll have to live a life of poverty? I've been really focused on getting in, and I'm just now getting my head around the idea of paying for it.

please elaborate


Yes you should look up the school here to start: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/
Why would you say Biglaw is out of yor future before you even go to law school? If you go to Texas Tech (which I know nothing about) then yes I can imagine Biglaw is not going to happen. What did you get on the LSAT, what is your GPA, and how much did you study for the LSAT?

plug in GPA/LSAT numbers here and look at what scores you would need to get into other schools.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/

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cinephile
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby cinephile » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:03 pm

What are your goals? If you're thinking about public interest, government work, or mid-law, then going to a well-respected school will still be important.

mloving2
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby mloving2 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:10 pm

Br3v wrote:
mloving2 wrote:
I've really looked at it a lot. Big Law is not in my future, I know that and accept it. Are you saying that because you think it'll be impossible to pay my loans off? Or if I do I'll have to live a life of poverty? I've been really focused on getting in, and I'm just now getting my head around the idea of paying for it.

please elaborate


Yes you should look up the school here to start: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/
Why would you say Biglaw is out of yor future before you even go to law school? If you go to Texas Tech (which I know nothing about) then yes I can imagine Biglaw is not going to happen. What did you get on the LSAT, what is your GPA, and how much did you study for the LSAT?

plug in GPA/LSAT numbers here and look at what scores you would need to get into other schools.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/


I've been using those websites for about a year and feel I have a very accurate outlook on my law school career, also I work for a criminal defense firm in austin texas. Maybe I'm a law prodigy and don't know it yet, but all I hear on these forums is that you'll never be in the top 10% (which is the only place law firms hire from) unless your lsat was a 170. I got a 155, which in all honesty is just 3 points below my average on PT (took about 10). I made as high as 161 and my early ones were 150ish. I envision a small to medium size firm career or being a prosecutor. Again, I don't have dreams of owning a yacht or driving a lambo. I just want to pay my loans each month and still live like I'm making about 40k a year without paying back loans.

Is this possible/likely?

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YankeesFan
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby YankeesFan » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:20 pm

There are a lot of factors to determine whether it is likely, but that is not the question. If you are taking out 23,000 a year plus living expenses (which presumably you wouldn't take out the whole amount if your wife is working), it is the debt level to job prospect ratio you need to consider. While you may want small law or DA's office, paying back close to 100,000 is hard on a $40,000 salary. Thats why most people on this board will tell you to only go if you have a scholly.

mloving2
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby mloving2 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:29 pm

YankeesFan wrote:There are a lot of factors to determine whether it is likely, but that is not the question. If you are taking out 23,000 a year plus living expenses (which presumably you wouldn't take out the whole amount if your wife is working), it is the debt level to job prospect ratio you need to consider. While you may want small law or DA's office, paying back close to 100,000 is hard on a $40,000 salary. Thats why most people on this board will tell you to only go if you have a scholly.



I mean I would like to earn more than 40k, but live like someone who doesn't have to pay back loans making 40k. Really I guess I should ask, basically how much a month am I going to be looking at paying? I understand this will vary, but is it going to be like 1,800 or 3,800 a month...I really am just getting my head on this. I got my acceptance about four days ago and don't know much about the financial aid process. In a perfect world, I'd be an excellent student the first years and the school offer me up a little scholly money then, but in reality that is unlikely. I have do doubt that I'll perform well in law school, but I don't know how my peers are going to preform which affects my grade just as much as I do.

As I think about this more, it seems like I'm asking "would I be crazy to think that I could get a job making about 65k a year out of law school", or something close to that.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:39 pm

how do you know your wife is going to make 45k in lubbock texas? what skills does she have? my wife graduated magma cum something or other from a top ten undergrad and currently makes about 25k a year in a place with at least twice the COL. the economy sucks and stuff.

also 45k in lubbock texas is like 1 billion dollars in california, you know that right? I mean that is a really, really good job.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:41 pm

mloving2 wrote:
YankeesFan wrote:There are a lot of factors to determine whether it is likely, but that is not the question. If you are taking out 23,000 a year plus living expenses (which presumably you wouldn't take out the whole amount if your wife is working), it is the debt level to job prospect ratio you need to consider. While you may want small law or DA's office, paying back close to 100,000 is hard on a $40,000 salary. Thats why most people on this board will tell you to only go if you have a scholly.



I mean I would like to earn more than 40k, but live like someone who doesn't have to pay back loans making 40k. Really I guess I should ask, basically how much a month am I going to be looking at paying? I understand this will vary, but is it going to be like 1,800 or 3,800 a month...I really am just getting my head on this. I got my acceptance about four days ago and don't know much about the financial aid process. In a perfect world, I'd be an excellent student the first years and the school offer me up a little scholly money then, but in reality that is unlikely. I have do doubt that I'll perform well in law school, but I don't know how my peers are going to preform which affects my grade just as much as I do.

As I think about this more, it seems like I'm asking "would I be crazy to think that I could get a job making about 65k a year out of law school", or something close to that.


also DA is considered public interest. look into the PLRAP or whatev.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:09 pm

1) You seriously under-studied for the LSAT. Taking 10 practice tests isn't nearly enough. You should be taking closer to 40 or more (whether as sections or complete tests). You're depriving yourself of tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars by not maximizing your LSAT score.

2) Top 10% won't get you biglaw at tech--you would have to be near the very top of your class to have a shot. And without big law, you'll likely be making anywhere from 35k to 65k in Texas, that is if you can't gre a legal job aye all.

3) Tech is not worth sticker, even though it's tuition is lower than other TTTs. Consider retaking and applying next year or at the very least retaking in Feb or June to try and get scholarship money from tech and other places you've been accepted.

B90
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby B90 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:22 pm

OP, to directly answer your question "Am I crazy to expect a $65,000 salary," the answer is YES. This is due to the "bimodal salary distribution" of recent law school graduates. Basically, you are likely to either make less than 50k or more than 150k. Like many third world countries, there is no real middle class for recent grads. People are often mislead by the fact that many law schools claim a median salary of around 70 or 80k. I guess by definition, that means there is at least one student in every class earning 70k. However, I have yet to meet a single one of these grads.
This is why it is so annoying for many of us hear 0Ls go on about how they "don't want to be rich" or "just need to make a decent living". You are actually on the right track in trying to determine if you can live on 40k. You may make more, and I honestly hope you do, but (especially if you are married with a family to consider) you need to be ok with the worst case scenario. Do your best, but plan for the worst.

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cinephile
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby cinephile » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:20 pm

If you'd be okay living on 40k, why not work towards that now? Don't get in debt for a law degree that will offer the same salary, but require massive student loan payments.

mloving2
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby mloving2 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:41 pm

cinephile wrote:If you'd be okay living on 40k, why not work towards that now? Don't get in debt for a law degree that will offer the same salary, but require massive student loan payments.


Again, its not about too much about money. I want to be an attorney, and I'm fine with not making 100k. I was trying to get a feel for how much my payments would be. Can anybody offer me some insight into this besides "dont go to law school" or "become a genius and get a full ride?"

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cinephile
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby cinephile » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:46 pm

You care more about being an attorney than having a decent quality of life? In that case, go for it.

But seriously, you don't have to be a genius to get a good scholarship. Just invest in an LSAT course. I taken one and it worked wonders. Others here have done well with self-study. It's really easy to learn, no matter where you're starting from.

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IAFG
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:46 pm

mloving2 wrote:
cinephile wrote:If you'd be okay living on 40k, why not work towards that now? Don't get in debt for a law degree that will offer the same salary, but require massive student loan payments.


Again, its not about too much about money. I want to be an attorney, and I'm fine with not making 100k. I was trying to get a feel for how much my payments would be. Can anybody offer me some insight into this besides "dont go to law school" or "become a genius and get a full ride?"

I am going to jump off a bridge, but I am hoping to not break any bones.

Can anyone offer me some insight into this besides "don't jump off a bridge" or "get a bungee cord"?

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bandenjamin
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Re: Tuition fully on loans for Cheap School in Texas

Postby bandenjamin » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:52 pm

A few things to think about when making your decision

1. Forget about what your future spouse is supposed to make. I don't know where you pulled an 85% chance at $45k per year from but unless you are married today and your spouse makes $45k and will continue in present job I wouldn't include it in your decision making process.

2. Go here and put in some numbers. When doing this imagine horrible debt i.e. $150k+ and really bad salary, like $30k. Make sure you look at the 25 year outlook (hung shingle or working retail). This is really trying to set up a worst case scenario but ask yourself, would you be OK with that lifestyle.

3. How sure are you that you really want to be an attorney? Find out everything you can about what life as an attorney is like. Talk to recent grads of your school, people in your local area/community. Ask them real questions about it. Find out what their biggest challenges are/were. Don't just say "what's it like to be a lawyer?". Ask very specific questions about the type of work they do/have done especially in areas that interest you.

Really most people would say from a purely financial stand point the risk/reward of your proposition is horrible. Of course there is more to it than simple economics, all you can really do is become as informed as you can and make the decision. You're the one who has to live with it and both the rewards/consequences.

HTH




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