250k in loans; biglaw advice

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tycoga8118
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250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby tycoga8118 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:58 am

I live by myself and have a little under 250k in federal loans. How long would it take me to pay that back on a NYC biglaw salary? I will try to keep my expenses at a minimum and will have 50 k in savings upon graduation so I don't need to contribute anything to savings/retirement beyond 401k.

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EvilClinton
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby EvilClinton » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:09 pm

tycoga8118 wrote:I live by myself and have a little under 250k in federal loans. How long would it take me to pay that back on a NYC biglaw salary? I will try to keep my expenses at a minimum and will have 50 k in savings upon graduation so I don't need to contribute anything to savings/retirement beyond 401k.


Given the ridiculous cost of living and high taxes in NYC I would say you are still looking a 7-10 years minimum.

Maybe if you got roommates and used some of that savings it would go down but 7-10 is more likely for 250k.

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EvilClinton
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby EvilClinton » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:12 pm

tycoga8118 wrote:I live by myself and have a little under 250k in federal loans. How long would it take me to pay that back on a NYC biglaw salary? I will try to keep my expenses at a minimum and will have 50 k in savings upon graduation so I don't need to contribute anything to savings/retirement beyond 401k.


Just to put it in perspective 10 year repayment on 250k is around 3k a month (maybe more depending on the interest rate).

redbullvodka
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby redbullvodka » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:30 pm

How much is your rent?

tycoga8118
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby tycoga8118 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:02 pm

redbullvodka wrote:How much is your rent?


Not sure. I just got a NYC biglaw offer and was trying to figure it out. 7 to 10 years seems really long. Am I missing something?

My thoughts was about 2k a month on rent and utilities. 1k a month on everything else. so 3k a month in living expenses. i make 160k. So not factoring in bonuses or raises each year or the fact that I may burn out after two years, I was thinking I would bring home about 110k after taxes?

Then 36k a year in expenses.

Then 15k a year contribute towards 401k and savings.

that still leaves 60k a year to go towards paying debt. I was thinking on that it would take 5 years to pay off debt. So if you do factor in bonuses and raises and assume I keep expenses about the same then i could pay it off in 3 to 4 years right?

Did I miss anything?

conc ashout
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby conc ashout » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:06 pm

Including NYC taxes, I think 96k is the take home

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rayiner
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby rayiner » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:10 pm

tycoga8118 wrote:
redbullvodka wrote:How much is your rent?


Not sure. I just got a NYC biglaw offer and was trying to figure it out. 7 to 10 years seems really long. Am I missing something?

My thoughts was about 2k a month on rent and utilities. 1k a month on everything else. so 3k a month in living expenses. i make 160k. So not factoring in bonuses or raises each year or the fact that I may burn out after two years, I was thinking I would bring home about 110k after taxes?

Then 36k a year in expenses.

Then 15k a year contribute towards 401k and savings.

that still leaves 60k a year to go towards paying debt. I was thinking on that it would take 5 years to pay off debt. So if you do factor in bonuses and raises and assume I keep expenses about the same then i could pay it off in 3 to 4 years right?

Did I miss anything?


NYC is $96k after taxes. $2k a month rent is doable, but $1k a month in living expenses is a little low. Working big law, you won't have time to cook, etc, so you end up eating out a lot.

So let's say your take-home is $8,000 and your living expenses are $3,500. On $250k, the 10-year at 7.6% (averaged Stafford and GradPlus) the minimum payment is $2980. If you add an extra $1,500 to each payment, that puts your payoff at around 6 years (http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/col ... lator.aspx).

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sunynp
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby sunynp » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:11 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=124140

One of the many threads here in this topic. I think the take home is closer to 93,000.
You should search the forums and see what else you can find. People have posted whole budgets for living and loan repayment.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=184470
This thread might be helpful too. As I said, this has been discussed a lot.

Personally, I think you may be underestimating the amount you will need for clothes. Try shopping at Woodbury Commons or century 21- but you have to look good.

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IAFG
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby IAFG » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:36 pm

sunynp wrote:Personally, I think you may be underestimating the amount you will need for clothes. Try shopping at Woodbury Commons or century 21- but you have to look good.

Who has the time to scour outlet malls when working biglaw hours though.

That's one of the common misperceptions I see a lot on TLS: thinking you can keep living the same way despite the time crunch. Lots of your expenses stem from not having the time to bargain shop. That means everything from paying full retail for a new suit that you must have by the day after tomorrow, to buying milk at the corner market instead of the grocery store even though it's $2 more.

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Ruxin1
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby Ruxin1 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:39 pm

Don't live alone?

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sunynp
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby sunynp » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:50 pm

IAFG wrote:
sunynp wrote:Personally, I think you may be underestimating the amount you will need for clothes. Try shopping at Woodbury Commons or century 21- but you have to look good.

Who has the time to scour outlet malls when working biglaw hours though.

That's one of the common misperceptions I see a lot on TLS: thinking you can keep living the same way despite the time crunch. Lots of your expenses stem from not having the time to bargain shop. That means everything from paying full retail for a new suit that you must have by the day after tomorrow, to buying milk at the corner market instead of the grocery store even though it's $2 more.


True- I understand this very well. When I worked downtown century 21 was great because they open at 7. It is possible to take a one day trip to Woodbury a couple times a year.

My point is not to underestimate expenses and you have to have good professional clothes. working big law hours just getting dry cleaning delivered is a problem if you live in a building without a doorman.

Both Saks and lord and Taylor have free personal shoppers who can get to know you and pull clothes for you when you are coming in. Lord and Taylor has great sales.

But not to make this all about clothes, I think you have underestimated living expenses. I completely agree with the above poster that you will end up spending more than you think in the city. Wednesday I had 3 appointments fairly close together in time but on opposite sides of the city - ended up with more than $35 in cab fare alone. That was poor planning on my part but these were appointments I had to make. Just a little example of how easy it is to spend money in the city.

JimmyHuang
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby JimmyHuang » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:40 pm

It is totally doable in less than 7 years. Just don't waste your money on unnecessary things.

EDIT: I am an undergrad.

To put in a bit of perspective: *originally had a long form version but made it a straightforward TL;DR)

My parents, me, and my sister (family of four) basically live on $25-40k net pay in Brooklyn, NY. A huge portion of it goes to my dad's profit-sharing plan.
Housing and utilities are already covered and aren't taken away from above.
My family has a nice house, car, home theater, etc.

We don't live lavishly and spend only what is necessary. We don't eat expensive food out (though I concede my dad is a chef and we eat good food in the house) and don't go to the Hamptons every month... you get the point.

If you live in Brooklyn and live frugally, you will be able to pay it off in probably 5-6 years. The line that living in NYC is expensive is surely overrated to some extent.

sunynp wrote:
My point is not to underestimate expenses and you have to have good professional clothes. working big law hours just getting dry cleaning delivered is a problem if you live in a building without a doorman.

Both Saks and lord and Taylor have free personal shoppers who can get to know you and pull clothes for you when you are coming in. Lord and Taylor has great sales.



Sorry but as a member of Styleforum, I had to weigh in on this. Most of the crap you see at Saks and Lord and Taylor is both garbage and overpriced. Most people in law school don't have the free time to browse Styleforum like I do so it is understandable that they purchase such things. The whole clothing thing is pretty complicated and my statement won't do much to sway people away from buying things from those stores but at least I feel self-gratification from getting that off my chest. :oops:
Last edited by JimmyHuang on Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thelawyler
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby thelawyler » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:54 pm

Yeah it will suck having to live more frugally than your big scholarship / trust fund peers, but you gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.

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bk1
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby bk1 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:59 pm

JimmyHuang wrote:Sorry but as a member of Styleforum... Most people in law school don't have the free time to browse Styleforum...

Fucking lol at both of these.

JimmyHuang
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby JimmyHuang » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:14 pm

bk1 wrote:
JimmyHuang wrote:Sorry but as a member of Styleforum... Most people in law school don't have the free time to browse Styleforum...

Fucking lol at both of these.


JimmyHuang wrote:EDIT: I am an undergrad.
(edited before your post)

And Styleforum is nothing to scoff at! With the amount of money those people spend on clothes, I'd be shocked if a good chunk of them weren't Big Law partners.

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BlaqBella
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:43 pm

- There are apartments for under $1k in Astoria, Queens. Also look at apartments in NJ (NOT Hoboken or Jersey City).

- Utilize Seamless for your meals and subsidized food offered in your firm's cafe for your breakfast/lunch. In BIGLAW there are ways to work around not having to pay for your lunch/dinner.

- Live and shop frugally. It is not impossible. Use Groupon, RueLaLa, GILT and other discounted websites for your clothing. Macy's 34th Street/Herald Sq. also has great bargains for both men and women professional wear. That said, good pair of shoes are important. Everyone in NYC BIGLAW takes notice of shoes.

- Rotate your wardrobe, especially your pants/skirts. You can live on three solids for the year - black, gray and navy.

- Don't get caught up on fancy dining and expensive booze unless its paid by the firm/client.

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dingbat
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby dingbat » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:58 pm

BlaqBella wrote:- There are apartments for under $1k in Astoria, Queens. Also look at apartments in NJ (NOT Hoboken or Jersey City).

- Utilize Seamless for your meals and subsidized food offered in your firm's cafe for your breakfast/lunch. In BIGLAW there are ways to work around not having to pay for your lunch/dinner.

- Live and shop frugally. It is not impossible. Use Groupon, RueLaLa, GILT and other discounted websites for your clothing. Macy's 34th Street/Herald Sq. also has great bargains for both men and women professional wear. That said, good pair of shoes are important. Everyone in NYC BIGLAW takes notice of shoes.

- Rotate your wardrobe, especially your pants/skirts. You can live on three solids for the year - black, gray and navy.

- Don't get caught up on fancy dining and expensive booze unless its paid by the firm/client.

do not live outside of manhattan - the time lost on the commute is not worth it

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BlaqBella
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:05 pm

dingbat wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:- There are apartments for under $1k in Astoria, Queens. Also look at apartments in NJ (NOT Hoboken or Jersey City).

- Utilize Seamless for your meals and subsidized food offered in your firm's cafe for your breakfast/lunch. In BIGLAW there are ways to work around not having to pay for your lunch/dinner.

- Live and shop frugally. It is not impossible. Use Groupon, RueLaLa, GILT and other discounted websites for your clothing. Macy's 34th Street/Herald Sq. also has great bargains for both men and women professional wear. That said, good pair of shoes are important. Everyone in NYC BIGLAW takes notice of shoes.

- Rotate your wardrobe, especially your pants/skirts. You can live on three solids for the year - black, gray and navy.

- Don't get caught up on fancy dining and expensive booze unless its paid by the firm/client.

do not live outside of manhattan - the time lost on the commute is not worth it


TOTAL nonsense. Most first and second-year associates I know either lived in BK or Queens. Commute in and around NYC is not a problem given the extensive subway system and not to mention free cab rides to and from work paid by the client. Living outside of Manhattan in no way impedes on one's availability.

However, if OP insists on being in Manhattan, consider Harlem and its outskirts environs. Not all of Harlem is bad and you can't beat $1100/month rent for a two bedroom.

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dingbat
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby dingbat » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:26 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
dingbat wrote:do not live outside of manhattan - the time lost on the commute is not worth it


TOTAL nonsense. Most first and second-year associates I know either lived in BK or Queens. Commute in and around NYC is not a problem given the extensive subway system and not to mention free cab rides to and from work paid by the client. Living outside of Manhattan in no way impedes on one's availability.

However, if OP insists on being in Manhattan, consider Harlem and its outskirts environs. Not all of Harlem is bad and you can't beat $1100/month rent for a two bedroom.

I wasn't referring to one's availability, but rather QOL. If you're working 60+ hours, you don't want to have to deal with a commute in excess of 30 minutes each way (depending on where your office is, there are parts of brooklyn and queens that are feasible; I'd advise against hoboken or JC because the path doesn't run quite as frequently)

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sunynp
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby sunynp » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:32 pm

Ive never seen these under 1k or 1100 apartments you are talking about. But maybe because I won't live in a walk up without a doorman?

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dingbat
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby dingbat » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:36 pm

sunynp wrote:Ive never seen these under 1k or 1100 apartments you are talking about. But maybe because I won't live in a walk up without a doorman?

these can be found but are generally really shitty accomodations. If you are never home and only ever sleep there, it's ok, but, if you're working your ass off most of the time, you don't want to come home to a shithole

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BlaqBella
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:36 pm

dingbat wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
dingbat wrote:do not live outside of manhattan - the time lost on the commute is not worth it


TOTAL nonsense. Most first and second-year associates I know either lived in BK or Queens. Commute in and around NYC is not a problem given the extensive subway system and not to mention free cab rides to and from work paid by the client. Living outside of Manhattan in no way impedes on one's availability.

However, if OP insists on being in Manhattan, consider Harlem and its outskirts environs. Not all of Harlem is bad and you can't beat $1100/month rent for a two bedroom.

I wasn't referring to one's availability, but rather QOL. If you're working 60+ hours, you don't want to have to deal with a commute in excess of 30 minutes each way (depending on where your office is, there are parts of brooklyn and queens that are feasible; I'd advise against hoboken or JC because the path doesn't run quite as frequently)


If you're working 60+ hours a week, free cab rides to and from work become the norm and sure beats taking the subway or paying for a taxicab. QOL is in no way diminished.

I mentioned availability because that is the only reason most consider living near the office. But nowadays, more associates are also working from home, making being in the office more of a preference than mandatory expectation (unless you're prepping for trial or closing a deal, of course).

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BlaqBella
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:37 pm

sunynp wrote:Ive never seen these under 1k or 1100 apartments you are talking about. But maybe because I won't live in a walk up without a doorman?


As a NYer, I can tell you they are around.

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IAFG
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby IAFG » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:38 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
sunynp wrote:Ive never seen these under 1k or 1100 apartments you are talking about. But maybe because I won't live in a walk up without a doorman?


As a NYer, I can tell you they are around.

As an NYer, you probably also have a broader definition of "livable."

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BlaqBella
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Re: 250k in loans; biglaw advice

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:39 pm

dingbat wrote:
sunynp wrote:Ive never seen these under 1k or 1100 apartments you are talking about. But maybe because I won't live in a walk up without a doorman?

these can be found but are generally really shitty accomodations. If you are never home and only ever sleep there, it's ok, but, if you're working your ass off most of the time, you don't want to come home to a shithole


Not having a doorman = living in a sh*thole?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Just wow.




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