Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
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Mad Hatter
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby Mad Hatter » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:03 pm

rayiner wrote:
fatduck wrote:lol "stop offering the kids more money! it's very emotionally taxing!"


I hate Dean Z with a passion. She's the worst kind of out-of-touch school administrator.

BUT SHE PERSONALIZES HER LETTERS AND GOES RUNNING AT ASW!!1!!

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Renne Walker
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby Renne Walker » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:12 pm

dingbat wrote:. . . employers don't only want the best, they want the hardest workers, which is not necessarily the same thing. Someone who is top 25% at a local feeder school will probably be a better hire than someone who is bottom 25% at a T14

What are saying may be vaguely logical but it simply does not work that way. Good luck with that anecdote, hope it works for you at OCI.

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justonemoregame
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby justonemoregame » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:19 pm

law schools should blind-bid on people ebay style. LSAC can just add an auction function to protect anon.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby Renne Walker » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:21 pm

rayiner wrote:
fatduck wrote:lol "stop offering the kids more money! it's very emotionally taxing!"


I hate Dean Z with a passion. She's the worst kind of out-of-touch school administrator.


In all fairness to the self-appointed queen of Mich, perhaps you missed her latest and greatest. . . table hopping.

http://www.law.umich.edu/connection/a2z/default.aspx

(Sorry could not resist. BTW: the delete key is conveniently located on the far bottom right of your keyboard.)

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dingbat
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby dingbat » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:02 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
dingbat wrote:. . . employers don't only want the best, they want the hardest workers, which is not necessarily the same thing. Someone who is top 25% at a local feeder school will probably be a better hire than someone who is bottom 25% at a T14

What are saying may be vaguely logical but it simply does not work that way. Good luck with that anecdote, hope it works for you at OCI.

sorry, I meant to say the local feeder, not a local feeder.
In which case, hiring stats back me up (top 25% is open to debate; I'm basing it off 4 markets I know about)
Yes, it's an oversimplification; grades get the interview, not the job, but the point remains the same.
Please correct me where I'm wrong

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IAFG
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby IAFG » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:24 pm

dingbat wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
dingbat wrote:. . . employers don't only want the best, they want the hardest workers, which is not necessarily the same thing. Someone who is top 25% at a local feeder school will probably be a better hire than someone who is bottom 25% at a T14

What are saying may be vaguely logical but it simply does not work that way. Good luck with that anecdote, hope it works for you at OCI.

sorry, I meant to say the local feeder, not a local feeder.
In which case, hiring stats back me up (top 25% is open to debate; I'm basing it off 4 markets I know about)
Yes, it's an oversimplification; grades get the interview, not the job, but the point remains the same.
Please correct me where I'm wrong

It depends on the firm (and who is on the hiring committee on any given year). Most large law firms are going to have a mix of top-of-the-class at lower ranked schools and less-outstanding top law school students. Those terms are of course relative: for a V10, it's going to be some combo of T30 top 10%ers, DNCG top quarter kids and CCN top half folks. For a St. Louis firm it might be top 25% at WUSTL, top 10% at SLU and top 2/3s at Northwestern.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby Renne Walker » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:42 pm

dingbat wrote:sorry, I meant to say the local feeder, not a local feeder.
In which case, hiring stats back me up (top 25% is open to debate; I'm basing it off 4 markets I know about)
Yes, it's an oversimplification; grades get the interview, not the job, but the point remains the same.
Please correct me where I'm wrong


If you are talking market sizes like Oklahoma City, Jacksonville, Birmingham, etc. where firms rarely hear from applicants at HYSCCNP, a/the local feeder should be fine. To support your local feeder point, LSU has a 79% employment rate, 5% large firm.

BigLaw has been hiring a certain way for decades and I doubt they will suddenly vary their process (although the number of hires might vary). Most big law firms have web sites showing were their lawyers graduated from, and in most cases dozens of schools are represented with an attorney or two, so it does happen.

At OCI I would spin my top 10% at my local feeder school, but I would never compare my top 10% to someone’s bottom 25% at a T-14. . . .hopefully you already know that.

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dingbat
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby dingbat » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:04 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
dingbat wrote:sorry, I meant to say the local feeder, not a local feeder.
In which case, hiring stats back me up (top 25% is open to debate; I'm basing it off 4 markets I know about)
Yes, it's an oversimplification; grades get the interview, not the job, but the point remains the same.
Please correct me where I'm wrong


If you are talking market sizes like Oklahoma City, Jacksonville, Birmingham, etc. where firms rarely hear from applicants at HYSCCNP, a/the local feeder should be fine. To support your local feeder point, LSU has a 79% employment rate, 5% large firm.

BigLaw has been hiring a certain way for decades and I doubt they will suddenly vary their process (although the number of hires might vary). Most big law firms have web sites showing were their lawyers graduated from, and in most cases dozens of schools are represented with an attorney or two, so it does happen.

At OCI I would spin my top 10% at my local feeder school, but I would never compare my top 10% to someone’s bottom 25% at a T-14. . . .hopefully you already know that.
Even in this economy
Top 25% at either USC or UCLA should get you interviews at biglaw in Los Angeles
Top 25% at BU or BC should get you interviews at biglaw in Boston
Top 25% at Fordham should get you interviews at biglaw in NY (top 10% at Brooklyn or Cardozo would, too)
Top 25% at UT should get you interviews at biglaw in Texas
I believe top 25% at GW should get you interviews in DC, although I'm not as familiar with that
I believe the same is true for top 15% of WUSTL in St. Louis, Emory in Georgia, Minnesota in Minneapolis, or UW in Washington
Beyond that, I don't know if there are any local markets (other than SF, of which I know nothing) with any real biglaw presence.
I do know that top 10% at Rutgers or Seton Hall will get an interview for biglaw

On the other hand, bottom 25% at a T14 is struggling ITE; maybe it was only bottom 10% in boom times, but at that time, the schools mentioned above would send a lot more too, with median being sufficient in several cases.

jared6180
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby jared6180 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:53 am

Interesting article either way. I am applying this Fall and feel a lot more comfortable pushing for more money. I thought it was just a one time offer take it or leave it situation, but it sounds like there is surely SOME room for negotiation. I also wont be committing unless I get a great offer at my #1 school the first time around.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby HarlandBassett » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:41 am

a comment from this blog post
http://thecareerist.typepad.com/thecare ... l#comments
This is a little bit like shopping for things you don't need but which look good because they're on sale. Even if a top-rated law school waived tuition, someone thinking about a career in law today really needs to ask themselves why (they think) a legal career is appealing.


generally true if you're heart is not 100% set on law school (i.e. you have other options)

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby manofjustice » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:15 pm

.
Last edited by manofjustice on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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manofjustice
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby manofjustice » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:17 pm

Renne Walker wrote:While I see the obvious upside of lower tuitions, I am not a fan of schools dropping their rates BECAUSE all that assures is the continued glut of lawyers into the marketplace.

Since Michigan was already brought up. It’s’11 employment rate is 75% with only 33% hired by large law firms. Does that look great to anyone? Is anyone here brave enough to say that the ’12 employment picture will be better. . . thought not.

Worse yet, given the idiotic curve, if you placed the 200 brightest students in the same class, 25% are still going to be screwed. I realize that if you’re in the T6 the employers understand that they are dealing with the best and brightest, but you know what, ITE the bottom 25% of anything is a hard sell, IMO.


This.

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AllDangle
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby AllDangle » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:31 pm

Should this "market" affect someone deciding whether to ED or not since it appears that more people have been getting off the WL in the most recent cycle?

T14HopefulAK
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby T14HopefulAK » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:35 am

I need HELP!!!! asking for some scholarship money. I have been accepted into University of UT (#49) AND recently got taken off the waitlist at University of MD (#39). I would love to attend UMD but would like to ask for some money as finances are tight. I do not know how to approach this topic as Utah is lower ranked.....I would like to try to ask for some money from Utah as well now that I have another admissions offer from Maryland.

I am really confused as to how to approach this. PLEASE HELP!

THANK YOU!

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dingbat
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby dingbat » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:00 pm

T14HopefulAK wrote:I need HELP!!!! asking for some scholarship money. I have been accepted into University of UT (#49) AND recently got taken off the waitlist at University of MD (#39). I would love to attend UMD but would like to ask for some money as finances are tight. I do not know how to approach this topic as Utah is lower ranked.....I would like to try to ask for some money from Utah as well now that I have another admissions offer from Maryland.

I am really confused as to how to approach this. PLEASE HELP!

THANK YOU!

Just tell them you really want to attend their school, but money is a concern and you have an offer at school X, is there anything they can do.
Be careful with how you phrase it, so they don't think you won't attend unless given more money (ie keep the option open to attend even if nothing changes)

T14HopefulAK
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby T14HopefulAK » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:12 pm

[quote="dingbat"][quote="T14HopefulAK"]I need HELP!!!! asking for some scholarship money. I have been accepted into University of UT (#49) AND recently got taken off the waitlist at University of MD (#39). I would love to attend UMD but would like to ask for some money as finances are tight. I do not know how to approach this topic as Utah is lower ranked.....I would like to try to ask for some money from Utah as well now that I have another admissions offer from Maryland.

I am really confused as to how to approach this. PLEASE HELP!
Last edited by T14HopefulAK on Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby HarlandBassett » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:22 pm

T14HopefulAK wrote:I was notified yesterday via phone that I have been offered a seat in the class of 2015. I would like to thank the entire admissions committee for this opportunity. I am thrilled to be accepted into the program.

Being an international student, and coming from a lower middle class family, finances are a huge concern for me. Therefore, I would like to request the admissions committee to consider my application for merit and need based aid. I have also been accepted at University of XXX however, I would love to attend XYZ if I could be considered for aid. I would really appreciate anything the admissions committee could do to help me out in this situation.

in that case, u might want to retake the LSAT and get into a T14

timbs4339
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Re: Negotiate scholarships- it's a buyers' market: NLJ article

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm

Has anyone successfully gone back way after they put down a deposit and gotten more money?




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