negotiating after ed

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
easye25
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negotiating after ed

Postby easye25 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:35 pm

I applied to a t-10 school and was accepted really early in the process. I have no qualms about attending the school but at the same time I would prefer to receive some money from the school--who wouldn't. I figure that I have nothing to lose by writing a few letters and meeting with a few administrators. However, I am curious whether anyone has any advice about this strategy. I initially planned on suggesting (subtly) that my financial circumstances have changed and I may no longer be able to attend the school without some financial assistance--despite the fact that I remain very committed and interested. However, I am not sure if there are more effective strategies out there.

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20130312
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby 20130312 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:37 pm

Would be careful about "suggesting" that (however subtle). You signed a binding contract and don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.

That said, I think you have a good strategy in mind by writing and meeting with the administration.

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chem
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby chem » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:39 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Would be careful about "suggesting" that (however subtle). You signed a binding contract and don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.

That said, I think you have a good strategy in mind by writing and meeting with the administration.


Only binding in the fact that he can't attend another law school this cycle. I think thats perfectly fine, and in fact would be one of the only ways I could see of getting more money

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby crumpetsandtea » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:46 pm

I'd make sure to focus on how much you love the school if you go that route, OP. Don't make it a threat: say something to the effect of "I LOVE X University and I want to attend SO BADLY, but my financial circumstances have changed and made it so that law school might be impossible for me to afford. Is there any way that I can get a scholly?"

TBH though if you say that they'll probably tell you that everyone gets considered for need-based aid and that's that. Or they'll request financial documents to assess you for need-based aid. If you don't actually qualify for need-based aid, well...sucks to be you? ):

ETA: also keep in mind most schools don't release finaid info until Jan-Mar, so your school might just be like "lol calm down" and you might have to send this email (or a variant of it) again later next year.

easye25
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby easye25 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:37 pm

easye25 wrote:Would be careful about "suggesting" that (however subtle). You signed a binding contract and don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.

That said, I think you have a good strategy in mind by writing and meeting with the administration.
Would be careful about "suggesting" that (however subtle). You signed a binding contract and don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.



I would make sure to be extremely subtle :D . Now would anyone actually recommend following through on the threat and perhaps sitting out a year--I admit this is probably not something I will do but at the same time maybe a year of working/saving and attempting to retake the lsat (4th time) could be beneficial?

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vanwinkle
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:52 pm

chem wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Would be careful about "suggesting" that (however subtle). You signed a binding contract and don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.

That said, I think you have a good strategy in mind by writing and meeting with the administration.

Only binding in the fact that he can't attend another law school this cycle. I think thats perfectly fine, and in fact would be one of the only ways I could see of getting more money

Careful, it may not be that limited. Look at the current UVA ED contract, for example:

Binding Expedited Decision Agreement wrote:Binding Expedited Decision applicants commit to enroll at the University of Virginia School of Law if admitted under this option. An Expedited Decision applicant may apply for admission to other law schools, but once admitted to the University of Virginia as an Expedited Decision applicant, the applicant must withdraw all other law school applications and may not initiate any new applications for admission. The University of Virginia reserves the right to provide other law schools with the names of applicants admitted to the University of Virginia under the Binding Expedited Decision Program. Expedited Decision applicants will be notified of their decision no later than 15 days after the application for admission is complete and residency status has been determined. Expedited Decision applicants who are waitlisted are free to maintain applications for admission to other law schools and to initiate new applications, and are not bound to enroll at the University of Virginia if offered admission later in the admissions season as part of the regular decision process.

I have read the above instructions and understand the policies and practices that apply to Early Decision admission at the University of Virginia School of Law. The University of Virginia is my first choice, and I wish to be considered as an Early Decision candidate. If admitted under Early Decision provisions, I will enroll at the University of Virginia School of Law. I further agree to withdraw all applications for admission to other law schools, and to initiate no new applications to other law schools if admitted under this program.

Source: http://www.law.virginia.edu/pdf/admissi ... cision.pdf

The contract says you're agreeing to attend that school. Period. It doesn't say it only applies to the current cycle, either. Also, I have heard of cases where someone went ED at a T14 and then tried to back out by saying they couldn't attend this cycle, and the school responded by granting a "deferral" that expected them to still enroll there the following year.

Also, breaking a contract is one of the worst things you can do if you're trying to get into a law school. These schools talk to each other about who breaks an ED agreement, and the contract above says you're granting them the right to do so. What do you think will happen if you break it?

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sunynp
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby sunynp » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 pm

Maybe you could post the relevant contract provisions? I don't think you should try this strategy unless, of course, it happens to be true. If your dad was suddenly disabled and couldn't pay his contribution, for example, they nay consider it. Or they may give you a years extension, or they may just help you with your loan applications. To use changed financial circumstances if it isn't true would be extremely foolish.

I think that part of the deal with ED is that the school knows it is getting full tuition ( outside of need based aid?) as well as certain numbers it can build it's class around. You obviously know the benefits for the student applying ED. It looks like you are trying to game the system by trying to get both early decision and scholarship/ financial aid.

tl;dr don't lie. Don't expect much sympathy/ assistance.

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sunynp
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby sunynp » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:28 pm

Also- be sure you withdraw all your other applications. The schools are very serious about that point. ( not saying you didn't ; just a friendly reminder.) people have been burned by this- they forget to withdraw and then they get accepted at a better school with money- that is a sad thing to see because they absolutely cannot accept the other offer- unless the ED school agrees for some reason to release them from the contract.

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IAFG
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:35 pm

I do not get how a change in financial circumstances would lead to not being able to attend. They'll lend you the full cost of attendance no matter what, and you can't use scholly or loan money for anything but attending.

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vanwinkle
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:41 pm

IAFG wrote:I do not get how a change in financial circumstances would lead to not being able to attend. They'll lend you the full cost of attendance no matter what, and you can't use scholly or loan money for anything but attending.

This. People who are giving you money (loans, but still, money) won't buy an "I can't afford it" excuse.

cooley4lyfe
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Re: negotiating after ed

Postby cooley4lyfe » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:36 am

vanwinkle wrote:
chem wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Would be careful about "suggesting" that (however subtle). You signed a binding contract and don't want to get off on the wrong foot with them.

That said, I think you have a good strategy in mind by writing and meeting with the administration.

Only binding in the fact that he can't attend another law school this cycle. I think thats perfectly fine, and in fact would be one of the only ways I could see of getting more money

Careful, it may not be that limited. Look at the current UVA ED contract, for example:

Binding Expedited Decision Agreement wrote:Binding Expedited Decision applicants commit to enroll at the University of Virginia School of Law if admitted under this option. An Expedited Decision applicant may apply for admission to other law schools, but once admitted to the University of Virginia as an Expedited Decision applicant, the applicant must withdraw all other law school applications and may not initiate any new applications for admission. The University of Virginia reserves the right to provide other law schools with the names of applicants admitted to the University of Virginia under the Binding Expedited Decision Program. Expedited Decision applicants will be notified of their decision no later than 15 days after the application for admission is complete and residency status has been determined. Expedited Decision applicants who are waitlisted are free to maintain applications for admission to other law schools and to initiate new applications, and are not bound to enroll at the University of Virginia if offered admission later in the admissions season as part of the regular decision process.

I have read the above instructions and understand the policies and practices that apply to Early Decision admission at the University of Virginia School of Law. The University of Virginia is my first choice, and I wish to be considered as an Early Decision candidate. If admitted under Early Decision provisions, I will enroll at the University of Virginia School of Law. I further agree to withdraw all applications for admission to other law schools, and to initiate no new applications to other law schools if admitted under this program.

Source: http://www.law.virginia.edu/pdf/admissi ... cision.pdf

The contract says you're agreeing to attend that school. Period. It doesn't say it only applies to the current cycle, either. Also, I have heard of cases where someone went ED at a T14 and then tried to back out by saying they couldn't attend this cycle, and the school responded by granting a "deferral" that expected them to still enroll there the following year.

Also, breaking a contract is one of the worst things you can do if you're trying to get into a law school. These schools talk to each other about who breaks an ED agreement, and the contract above says you're granting them the right to do so. What do you think will happen if you break it?


To clarify, the admissions office told me that ED only applies for the current cycle (despite the form not indicating otherwise). But this doesn't seem to mean they would be happy if you reneged on the ED. In fact, I would think they would let peer schools know.




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