What's a good T14 scholarship?

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WhiteGuy5
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What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:43 pm

The general consensus on TLS is either go to a HYS, or another T14 with a decent scholarship. Well, I want to hear some people's thoughts on what they would consider enough $$$ for a non-HYS T14.

Would 25K a year suffice? Or is that still too little?

And would anyone recommend picking a more expensive T14 over another for someone looking forward to working in NY (yes, BIGLAW would be nice).

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ph14
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby ph14 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:47 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:The general consensus on TLS is either go to a HYS, or another T14 with a decent scholarship. Well, I want to hear some people's thoughts on what they would consider enough $$$ for a non-HYS T14.

Would 25K a year suffice? Or is that still too little?

And would anyone recommend picking a more expensive T14 over another for someone looking forward to working in NY (yes, BIGLAW would be nice).


Undergrad debt? career goals? personal savings? parental investment? risk aversion? debt aversion? work experience? personal or familial connections? rich significant other? opportunity costs? best possible alternatives to law school? life goals? family to support/planning to have kids? undergrad major/degree? willing to study more and retake the LSAT? etc. etc. There isn't just a clear number in a vacuum that is applicable to everyone.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:53 pm

ph14 wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:The general consensus on TLS is either go to a HYS, or another T14 with a decent scholarship. Well, I want to hear some people's thoughts on what they would consider enough $$$ for a non-HYS T14.

Would 25K a year suffice? Or is that still too little?

And would anyone recommend picking a more expensive T14 over another for someone looking forward to working in NY (yes, BIGLAW would be nice).


Undergrad debt? career goals? personal savings? parental investment? risk aversion? debt aversion? work experience? personal or familial connections? rich significant other? opportunity costs? best possible alternatives to law school? undergrad major/degree? willing to study more and retake the LSAT? etc. etc. There isn't just a clear number in a vacuum that is applicable to everyone.


True. Sorry about that.

- NO undergraduate debt =)
- Career goals: I WANT to be a lawyer, and I imagine Biglaw giving me the opportunity to pay back my loans/allow me to do something else later on if I choose so.
- Parental investment: eh...my dad has some money, but he's paying a mortgage and I would not depend on him. Though I'm sure he'd be down to co-sign for credit reasons (my credit is real good too)
- Work experience: part-time undergraduate/internships/no REAL job
- Personal/Familial connections: None that I can think of
- Rich significant other: No, and I imagine her salary being insignificant by the time i graduate.
- Alternative to law school: no...I want to be a lawyer
- Undergraduate degree: BA in Poli Sci, nothing big
- NOT willing to study and retake the LSAT.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:53 pm

Thank you for the reply btw.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:58 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:The general consensus on TLS is either go to a HYS, or another T14 with a decent scholarship. Well, I want to hear some people's thoughts on what they would consider enough $$$ for a non-HYS T14.

Would 25K a year suffice? Or is that still too little?

And would anyone recommend picking a more expensive T14 over another for someone looking forward to working in NY (yes, BIGLAW would be nice).
I'd do T6 with little to no scholly and MVP with 20k per year. Shooting for Northwestern full-ride tho

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:17 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:The general consensus on TLS is either go to a HYS, or another T14 with a decent scholarship. Well, I want to hear some people's thoughts on what they would consider enough $$$ for a non-HYS T14.

Would 25K a year suffice? Or is that still too little?

And would anyone recommend picking a more expensive T14 over another for someone looking forward to working in NY (yes, BIGLAW would be nice).
I'd do T6 with little to no scholly and MVP with 20k per year. Shooting for Northwestern full-ride tho


And the lower T14s? Cornell? Georgetown?

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Kirk
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Kirk » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:06 pm

If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.

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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:16 pm

Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.


No. You absolutely cannot plan to outperform your peers. 1L grading is virtually random. Don't go anywhere you wouldn't be ok graduating from below median with the debt load you will have.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:18 pm

Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.

this is a horrible preconception

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Kirk
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Kirk » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:39 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.

this is a horrible preconception
Maybe the preconception of class ranking is questionable, but I stand by the presumption that “no debt” is MUCH better than “debt.”

There are those who believe if you cannot get accepted to HYS then law school is too much of a risk, followed by those who begrudgingly lower their sights to T-6, Ivy and T-14. All I am suggesting is that if Tier 1 was acceptable, they might wind up better off.

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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:43 pm

Kirk wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.

this is a horrible preconception
Maybe the preconception of class ranking is questionable, but I stand by the presumption that “no debt” is MUCH better than “debt.”

There are those who believe if you cannot get accepted to HYS then law school is too much of a risk, followed by those who begrudgingly lower their sights to T-6, Ivy and T-14. All I am suggesting is that if Tier 1 was acceptable, they might wind up better off.


You assume that a partial scholly at a T14 means you'd get a full-ride at a T1. Or that many T1 schollys don't come with impossible conditions to keep them. You also assume that for many the added employment avenues from a T14 aren't worth the extra debt. FWIW, the DA in my hometown (small city) is a family friend. They hire top 3-5 people in local regionals and median and above at a T14. They won't even touch a T1 that isn't local.

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drdolittle
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby drdolittle » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:47 pm

Kirk wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.

this is a horrible preconception
Maybe the preconception of class ranking is questionable, but I stand by the presumption that “no debt” is MUCH better than “debt.”

There are those who believe if you cannot get accepted to HYS then law school is too much of a risk, followed by those who begrudgingly lower their sights to T-6, Ivy and T-14. All I am suggesting is that if Tier 1 was acceptable, they might wind up better off.

The problem is that in practice the full ride would most likely only come from schools offering significantly worse job prospects than what the partial ride from a "T14"-ish school would give. Degree of debt does matter, but debt is still debt and the realistic goal is to find a law job w/debt v. no job w/ less, though still significant debt.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:53 pm

blowhard wrote:
Kirk wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.

this is a horrible preconception
Maybe the preconception of class ranking is questionable, but I stand by the presumption that “no debt” is MUCH better than “debt.”

There are those who believe if you cannot get accepted to HYS then law school is too much of a risk, followed by those who begrudgingly lower their sights to T-6, Ivy and T-14. All I am suggesting is that if Tier 1 was acceptable, they might wind up better off.


You assume that a partial scholly at a T14 means you'd get a full-ride at a T1. Or that many T1 schollys don't come with impossible conditions to keep them. You also assume that for many the added employment avenues from a T14 aren't worth the extra debt. FWIW, the DA in my hometown (small city) is a family friend. They hire top 3-5 people in local regionals and median and above at a T14. They won't even touch a T1 that isn't local.

they don't, as far as I know. That's a TT, TTT, and TTTT thing

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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:59 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:they don't, as far as I know. That's a TT, TTT, and TTTT thing


Some do. Regardless, there's a lot of assuming going on in that statement.

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Kirk
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Kirk » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:01 am

blowhard wrote:You assume that a partial scholly at a T14 means you'd get a full-ride at a T1. Or that many T1 schollys don't come with impossible conditions to keep them. You also assume that for many the added employment avenues from a T14 aren't worth the extra debt. FWIW, the DA in my hometown (small city) is a family friend. They hire top 3-5 people in local regionals and median and above at a T14. They won't even touch a T1 that isn't local.

My limited personal experience is that I received partial T-14 scholarships and a number of Tier-1 full rides. These full rides come with stipulations that made sense (non-transfer clause, coming to class, etc.).

T-10, Ivy, etc., might very well be worth more $. . . however, given today’s economy and oversaturation of lawyers, the only thing that is certain is that a free tuition trumps debt, especially if one winds up as traffic ticket attorney.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:02 am

Depends on which one of the T13 you're talking about.
JamMasterJ wrote:
blowhard wrote:
You assume that a partial scholly at a T14 means you'd get a full-ride at a T1. Or that many T1 schollys don't come with impossible conditions to keep them. You also assume that for many the added employment avenues from a T14 aren't worth the extra debt. FWIW, the DA in my hometown (small city) is a family friend. They hire top 3-5 people in local regionals and median and above at a T14. They won't even touch a T1 that isn't local.

they don't, as far as I know. That's a TT, TTT, and TTTT thing

I think any scholarship stipulation that requires above a 2.0 or a 2.5 (basically, any scholarship that requires more than not being on academic probation) makes a school an auto TTT. iirc Iowa has top 1/3 requirement on its scholarships. While it's in the USNWR tier one, I think that it's still firmly in the TTT category because of that qualification.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:05 am

Kirk wrote: the only thing that is certain is that a free tuition trumps debt

I think the earning potential coming from a top school with lots of debt still wins out over the opportunity cost and abortive career trajectory you'd get coming out of plenty of schools even with a full scholarship.

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Kirk
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Kirk » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:20 am

Bildungsroman wrote:I think the earning potential coming from a top school with lots of debt still wins out over the opportunity cost and abortive career trajectory you'd get coming out of plenty of schools even with a full scholarship.

Unfortunately, these days words that are synonyms of “BLUE SKY,” do not resonant as they once did.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:52 am

Kirk wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:I think the earning potential coming from a top school with lots of debt still wins out over the opportunity cost and abortive career trajectory you'd get coming out of plenty of schools even with a full scholarship.

Unfortunately, these days words that are synonyms of “BLUE SKY,” do not resonant as they once did.

Are you illiterate?

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Kirk
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Kirk » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:51 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Are you illiterate?

That's it? After 9,500 posts, that's all you have? Really??

Maybe in your next 9,500 you'll catch up.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:53 am

Kirk wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Are you illiterate?

That's it? After 9,500 posts, that's all you have? Really??

Maybe in your next 9,500 you'll catch up.

Why did you delete and resubmit this post?

bbalcrzy23
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:05 am

.
Last edited by bbalcrzy23 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:08 am

bbalcrzy23 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.


No. You absolutely cannot plan to outperform your peers. 1L grading is virtually random. Don't go anywhere you wouldn't be ok graduating from below median with the debt load you will have.


Agreed you cannot plan to outperform your peers, but to call 1l grading virtually random is virtually wrong. Should I just draw a picture on my exam and hope to hit the lottery?

Think before you type next time.

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Grizz
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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:08 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Are you illiterate?

That's it? After 9,500 posts, that's all you have? Really??

Maybe in your next 9,500 you'll catch up.

Why did you delete and resubmit this post?

He changed 9000 to 9500 lololol

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Re: What's a good T14 scholarship?

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:59 am

bbalcrzy23 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Kirk wrote:If you have the grades for a partial T-14 scholarship, why not aim a little lower and receive a full ride at an upper level Tier 1 School? You would wind up in a class with students whose grades were on a par (or lower) than yours, thus [theoretically] providing you a better chance at achieving a higher class ranking.


No. You absolutely cannot plan to outperform your peers. 1L grading is virtually random. Don't go anywhere you wouldn't be ok graduating from below median with the debt load you will have.


Agreed you cannot plan to outperform your peers, but to call 1l grading virtually random is virtually wrong. Should I just draw a picture on my exam and hope to hit the lottery?


It's random in that your knowledge of the subject is virtually irrelevant. People who know little hit the exam jackpot and those that outlined the restatement end up bottom 1/3.




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