Harvard V. UCLA Forum

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Sat May 21, 2011 3:56 pm

HNSA15 wrote:Yes, I'm female.

I know that going to UCLA makes logical sense because I wouldn't have to pay a single dollar and still be close to everyone who is important to me. I just don't know if I'll ever get a chance to go to a school like Harvard again. I feel like this might be once in a lifetime opportunity. With that said, going to a #14 law school and graduating with 0 debt might also be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And the circle just goes around and around....

UCLA is number 16. You need to tell us what your career goals are.

crumpetsandtea · Post by **crumpetsandtea** » Sat May 21, 2011 4:03 pm

HNSA15 wrote:Yes, I'm female.

I know that going to UCLA makes logical sense because I wouldn't have to pay a single dollar and still be close to everyone who is important to me. I just don't know if I'll ever get a chance to go to a school like Harvard again. I feel like this might be once in a lifetime opportunity. With that said, going to a #14 law school and graduating with 0 debt might also be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And the circle just goes around and around....

UCLA is not T14, FWIW. It's T20, though. Then again...HLS is T3, so there's that. Ultimately it's your choice but if you're worried about employment (which we all should be, haha), here are some stats from LS Transparency:

Harvard
--LinkRemoved--
69%of all graduates are represented by salary quartiles (96.4 percentile)
17.6%of all graduates are Article III clerks ($40,949 - $66,562)
2.5%of all graduates are unemployed or pursuing a grad degree ($0)
89.1%of all graduates have a known salary range (98.9 percentile)

$160,000 - 25th percentile
$160,000 - Median
$160,000 - 75th Percentile

UCLA
--LinkRemoved--
59.9% of all graduates are represented by salary quartiles (91.3 percentile)
5.5% of all graduates are Article III clerks ($40,949 - $66,562)
6% of all graduates are unemployed or pursuing a grad degree
71.4% of all graduates have a known salary range (89.8 percentile)

$141,560 - 25th percentile
$160,000 - Median
$160,000 - 75th Percentile

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Sat May 21, 2011 4:08 pm

The fact that 25% of UCLA grad's dont have a reported salary and the 25th% private sector salary is 140k scares me.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Sat May 21, 2011 4:12 pm

Curry wrote:The fact that 25% of UCLA grad's dont have a reported salary

This scares me.

Curry wrote:the 25th% private sector salary is 140k scares me.

This doesn't.

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Sat May 21, 2011 4:15 pm

dpk711 wrote:
Curry wrote:The fact that 25% of UCLA grad's dont have a reported salary
This scares me.
Curry wrote:the 25th% private sector salary is 140k scares me.
This doesn't.

When 25% of the class has an unreported salary, and the 25th percentile of the reported (which actually includes even less people because only 59.9% of all graduates are included in the quartiles) is 20k less than market in Los Angeles, thats scary as shit.

Rock-N-Roll · Post by **Rock-N-Roll** » Sat May 21, 2011 4:28 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
HNSA15 wrote:Yes, I'm female.

I know that going to UCLA makes logical sense because I wouldn't have to pay a single dollar and still be close to everyone who is important to me. I just don't know if I'll ever get a chance to go to a school like Harvard again. I feel like this might be once in a lifetime opportunity. With that said, going to a #14 law school and graduating with 0 debt might also be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And the circle just goes around and around....
UCLA is not T14, FWIW. It's T20, though. Then again...HLS is T3, so there's that. Ultimately it's your choice but if you're worried about employment (which we all should be, haha), here are some stats from LS Transparency:

Harvard
--LinkRemoved--
69%of all graduates are represented by salary quartiles (96.4 percentile)
17.6%of all graduates are Article III clerks ($40,949 - $66,562)
2.5%of all graduates are unemployed or pursuing a grad degree ($0)
89.1%of all graduates have a known salary range (98.9 percentile)

$160,000 - 25th percentile
$160,000 - Median
$160,000 - 75th Percentile

UCLA
--LinkRemoved--
59.9% of all graduates are represented by salary quartiles (91.3 percentile)
5.5% of all graduates are Article III clerks ($40,949 - $66,562)
6% of all graduates are unemployed or pursuing a grad degree
71.4% of all graduates have a known salary range (89.8 percentile)

$141,560 - 25th percentile
$160,000 - Median
$160,000 - 75th Percentile

Overall I would think that if you finnish top of the class at either school you'd be in pretty good shape at either and thus great shape + full ride = advantage UCLA.

But what are your prospects (in terms of your career goals) if you finnish below median at either school? Would the advantage then go to Harvard (I don't know)?

FWIW In terms of prestige, keep in mind that a full scholarship to a T15/16 is pretty darn prestigious in it's own right.

dr123 · Post by **dr123** » Sat May 21, 2011 6:27 pm

Why in the hell doesnt LS transparency include non-art III clerkships

bruinwang · Post by **bruinwang** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:07 pm

From one Bruin to another: go to Harvard. I went to UCLA for undergrad AND master's degrees, and I was determined from the outset to go to a different school for law. While I enjoyed Westwood, and envision returning to LA in the future (I'm also a local resident), I wanted to expand my network and gain new experiences. Also, as people have already said... it's Harvard, and HYS could always use more Bruin representation.

To me, H would be a pretty good gamble to take.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:09 pm

bruinwang wrote:From one Bruin to another: go to Harvard. I went to UCLA for undergrad AND master's degrees, and I was determined from the outset to go to a different school for law. While I enjoyed Westwood, and envision returning to LA in the future (I'm also a local resident), I wanted to expand my network and gain new experiences. Also, as people have already said... it's Harvard, and HYS could always use more Bruin representation. To me, H would be a pretty good gamble to take.

But did you have a full ride + stipend?

Gideon Strumpet · Post by **Gideon Strumpet** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:15 pm

This still isn't a question. Go to Harvard.

3ThrowAway99 · Post by **3ThrowAway99** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:19 pm

Gideon Strumpet wrote:This still isn't a question. Go to Harvard.

bruinwang · Post by **bruinwang** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:41 pm

dpk711 wrote:
bruinwang wrote:From one Bruin to another: go to Harvard. I went to UCLA for undergrad AND master's degrees, and I was determined from the outset to go to a different school for law. While I enjoyed Westwood, and envision returning to LA in the future (I'm also a local resident), I wanted to expand my network and gain new experiences. Also, as people have already said... it's Harvard, and HYS could always use more Bruin representation. To me, H would be a pretty good gamble to take.
But did you have a full ride + stipend?

Nope, but even after taking that into consideration, I would still say the same. I don't take the advice lightly -- I know it's almost heretical for an LA resident to not want to STAY in LA when given the opportunity, especially a fantastic one like OP's. But I really think H is worth the money. That's why I said it's a good "gamble," I realize there's a huge financial consideration at stake.

jenesaislaw · Post by **jenesaislaw** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:48 pm

dr123 wrote:Why in the hell doesnt LS transparency include non-art III clerkships

What is your suggestion exactly?

We know the salary ranges for Article III clerkships because they all start out at about the same salary.

dr123 · Post by **dr123** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:55 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
dr123 wrote:Why in the hell doesnt LS transparency include non-art III clerkships
What is your suggestion exactly?

We know the salary ranges for Article III clerkships because they all start out at about the same salary.

No suggestion, just curiousity. Id like to see the non Art III clerkship placement for schools.

xcountryjunkie · Post by **xcountryjunkie** » Sat May 21, 2011 8:05 pm

Lawquacious wrote:
Gideon Strumpet wrote:This still isn't a question. Go to Harvard.

crossingforHYS · Post by **crossingforHYS** » Sat May 21, 2011 8:16 pm

HNSA15 wrote:Yes, I'm female.

I know that going to UCLA makes logical sense because I wouldn't have to pay a single dollar and still be close to everyone who is important to me. I just don't know if I'll ever get a chance to go to a school like Harvard again. I feel like this might be once in a lifetime opportunity. With that said, going to a #14 law school and graduating with 0 debt might also be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And the circle just goes around and around....

#16

canon · Post by **canon** » Sat May 21, 2011 8:25 pm

jenesaislaw · Post by **jenesaislaw** » Sat May 21, 2011 8:57 pm

dr123 wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
dr123 wrote:Why in the hell doesnt LS transparency include non-art III clerkships
What is your suggestion exactly?

We know the salary ranges for Article III clerkships because they all start out at about the same salary.
No suggestion, just curiousity. Id like to see the non Art III clerkship placement for schools.

The data are there for each school, see the charts page, just not for the salaries.

saladfiend · Post by **saladfiend** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:23 pm

Just putting this out there: Harvard Law is huge with around 600 students per class year. Obviously overall it is more "prestigious" than UCLA, but it is hard to distinguish yourself at Harvard because it is huge and the grading system is odd.

Gideon Strumpet · Post by **Gideon Strumpet** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:36 pm

saladfiend wrote:Just putting this out there: Harvard Law is huge with around 600 students per class year. Obviously overall it is more "prestigious" than UCLA, but it is hard to distinguish yourself at Harvard because it is huge and the grading system is odd.

And it is easy to distinguish yourself from the other 44,400 new JDs each year who did not go to Harvard.

Dany · Post by **Dany** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:38 pm

Gideon Strumpet wrote:
saladfiend wrote:Just putting this out there: Harvard Law is huge with around 600 students per class year. Obviously overall it is more "prestigious" than UCLA, but it is hard to distinguish yourself at Harvard because it is huge and the grading system is odd.
And it is easy to distinguish yourself from the other 44,400 new JDs each year who did not go to Harvard.

This.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:47 pm

The irony of this situation is that, if OP is paying sticker, she can afford to go into sticker debt at Harvard. The only people who pay sticker at HLS (because of their need based aid system) are people who have a substantial amount of income--and I mean substantial. Your parents must each make six figures, or you do.

And even forgetting the debt, the gap between HLS and UCLA is just too big to go to UCLA. It's a gargantuan gap, not moderate, not big, not huge, not really huge, but gargantuan. You will regret turning down Harvard for UCLA for the rest of your life unless you end up in the top 10 percent at UCLA. And even then you may still regret it. Even if you end up in a situation where you don't make much money out of Harvard, their LRAP and IBR combine in a way such that you wouldn't have to pay anything on your loans. Finally, contrary to what this website says, there really is no school superior to Harvard for anything but clerkhips and academia---and even in those two areas there's only one school. The only real negatives about HLS are that they give out Low Passes and that the location is in freezing weather. But since you don't have Stanford as an option, you'll just have to swallow that.

ebeth · Post by **ebeth** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:48 pm

saladfiend wrote:Just putting this out there: Harvard Law is huge with around 600 students per class year. Obviously overall it is more "prestigious" than UCLA, but it is hard to distinguish yourself at Harvard because it is huge and the grading system is odd.

The point is that you don't necessarily have to "distinguish yourself" at Harvard to do well. And I'll take the "odd" grading system over having a GPA any day.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:50 pm

ebeth wrote:
saladfiend wrote:Just putting this out there: Harvard Law is huge with around 600 students per class year. Obviously overall it is more "prestigious" than UCLA, but it is hard to distinguish yourself at Harvard because it is huge and the grading system is odd.
The point is that you don't necessarily have to "distinguish yourself" at Harvard to do well. And I'll take the "odd" grading system over having a GPA any day.

Exactly. Lol people spend too much time on this website. "Distinguish yourself at Harard". Think about that statement for a second. Unless you're talking about the absolute creme de le creme positions--the distinguishment is graduating from Harvard Law School. And it is much, much, MUCH, better to have an "odd" grading system than one that makes razor think differences (ie the 4.0 GPA system) possible.

dadamafia · Post by **dadamafia** » Sun May 22, 2011 3:26 am

The prospect of graduating with no debt from a well-regarded school located close to home is definitely hard to turn down, but based on the vibe I'm getting I think you've already made up your mind. Harvard is obviously where you want to go, so just go. The money seems to have become a non-issue to you so I do not see what the hold up is about. I cant blame you, if I had the choice I highly doubt I could turn down Harvard in this situation. If you go to UCLA, it is obvious that you will look back with regret for quite some time. Congrats.

Plus:

ebeth wrote: I'll take the "odd" grading system over having a GPA any day.

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