Loans... point of no return?

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
katekate
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Loans... point of no return?

Postby katekate » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:57 pm

Hi! I'm a 1L at a 2nd tier private school paying sticker. (The fact is, I've already made this choice so there's no point talking about that....)

I've taken out $50,500 for this year to cover tuition and living expenses and I am SO BROKE. I'm wondering... since I'm already going to be massively in debt, and I'm seriously considering public interest/government work so I can have the public service IBR loan forgiveness, should I just saw screw it and take a little more so I can live comfortably?

I feel like if I do the IBR loan forgiveness, it will make zero difference if I'm 150k in debt or 165k in debt. What do you think?

law_noob
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby law_noob » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:32 pm

meh. try and tuff it out if you can, gov/PI jobs are getting pretty competitive with all the laid off associates (with WE!) flooding the markets currently. could you get any money from the fam?

And, taking out a little more money next time wouldn't be too bad, I would just try to veer away from jumping up 15gs. I got in 15gs a debt from UG, and although that is relatively cheap, its still annoying to chip away at it while fighting that interest monster

katekate
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby katekate » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:21 pm

hmmm ok, so 15,000 may be a lot, but what about another 6,000. I feel like it won't make a difference.

katekate
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby katekate » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:49 pm

anyone else want to share?

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:16 pm

As it is, you'll graduate with $150K+ in loans. Considering IBR, I don't see how an incremental $15K is going to have a significant impact on your post graduation life, while it will certainly make life much easier in the next 3 years. Take out the loans.

katekate
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby katekate » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Hattori Hanzo wrote:As it is, you'll graduate with $150K+ in loans. Considering IBR, I don't see how an incremental $15K is going to have a significant impact on your post graduation life, while it will certainly make life much easier in the next 3 years. Take out the loans.


Thank you! That was my thinking... just want to make sure I'm not being delusional or something

bkbkbk
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby bkbkbk » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:20 pm

Ultimatly you must do what you feel is best but personally, $15,000 is a good chunk of money and couple that to the fact that unforseen financial emergencies may come up in your remaining term, I just would not do it if at all possible. We might have different objectives but it is not so imperitive for me to live a comfortable lifestyle now. I am forgoing pleasure now for greater future returns.

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homestyle28
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby homestyle28 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:30 pm

Have you looked into whether or not you can actually get the loans? Fed loans are limited by what your school sets as cost of attendance, they can get you more on a case by case basis, but you usually have to have a compelling reason. Private loans are usually credit based, and you'll have to make sure you can consolidate them with fed loans in the future for them to qualify for IBR. I'm not saying you can't but things you want to look into before you start spending again.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:31 pm

This is going to sound insane... But ... You're at a TTT... As was I ... I tried this radical concept ... I got a job ... And then I used the stuff that job paid me ... (money) ... to bridge the gap and pay for stuff...

These jobs I speak of (like the one I had), are often legally related. This provides you with the only valuable commodity you can acquire at a TTT .... (EXPERIENCE)... I graduated law school being able to do what most 2nd years can't at a biglaw firm... be a lawyer. This is not a bad thing. You're at a TTT. Admit it and move forward. Do that by minimizing your debt load and taking on a small job to help you pay for stuff and to help you gain some much needed experience. Sometimes that experience even leads to a post-graduation job.

katekate
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby katekate » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:22 pm

homestyle28 wrote:Have you looked into whether or not you can actually get the loans? Fed loans are limited by what your school sets as cost of attendance, they can get you more on a case by case basis, but you usually have to have a compelling reason. Private loans are usually credit based, and you'll have to make sure you can consolidate them with fed loans in the future for them to qualify for IBR. I'm not saying you can't but things you want to look into before you start spending again.


Yeah, I took loans quite a bit less than COA because I thought I could live on less money... I think I was wrong and I will have to borrow a little more.

Also... I'm not at a TTT... and I don't want to get a job because it would distract me from my classes/ the money I could make is not worth that distraction in my mind. Especially first semester 1L.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:27 pm

katekate wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Have you looked into whether or not you can actually get the loans? Fed loans are limited by what your school sets as cost of attendance, they can get you more on a case by case basis, but you usually have to have a compelling reason. Private loans are usually credit based, and you'll have to make sure you can consolidate them with fed loans in the future for them to qualify for IBR. I'm not saying you can't but things you want to look into before you start spending again.


Yeah, I took loans quite a bit less than COA because I thought I could live on less money... I think I was wrong and I will have to borrow a little more.

Also... I'm not at a TTT... and I don't want to get a job because it would distract me from my classes/ the money I could make is not worth that distraction in my mind. Especially first semester 1L.




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh wow... That was awesome.. I needed that.

katekate
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby katekate » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:48 pm

reasonable_man wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh wow... That was awesome.. I needed that.


Thanks for your help! :mrgreen:

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reasonable_man
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:17 pm

katekate wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh wow... That was awesome.. I needed that.


Thanks for your help! :mrgreen:



No problem. I offered you about the best advice you could possibly get on here.. The only advice that might help you avoid the overly likely result of unemployment at graduation. You didn't like that advice, so you'll ignore it. I also suggested that your school is a TTT, so that you might hopefully get on board with that idea and realize that it will be up to you to hustle to find a job now and that waiting to get one later on down the line is an awful idea. You will, no doubt, laugh this off as silly advice. However, think back to this conversation in exactly 3 years, after you have sat for the bar and you have no job lined up and contact me then to tell me that I am wrong. I won't say "I told you so," but I also won't offer you any advice; as by then, you will already have been duped by the T2 scam and it will be too late for you to undo the disaster you have made of your life. The US News says your school is ranked 61.73, exactly... Sadly, those numbers mean nothing to anyone but 0Ls and law students. To the rest of the world, its just another law school ... no different than any of the other schools that aren't a top 25 or so... So take out more loans young schollar.. Make sure you finish in the top 26% percent instead of the top 29%... That will absolutely help way more than work experience and minimizing your debt load.


Good luck though.. Take out some more loans.. It won't matter in the end..

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:39 am

^ Despite what reasonable_man says, I would highly recommend against working your first year. Your first year grades are really, really, really important, especially at TTT. Think of it this way- you basically have to be in the top 5-10 people in your class to stand a shot at much of anything in terms of getting a firm for your 2L summer and to potentially transfer the fuck out of that dump and into a t14. If you make it, then your entire life will be better as a result of you putting in a total of one year of work. (Also, keep in mind that if you are in the top 5-10 people, you might be able to negotiate a full-ride out of your TTT for your last 2 years -- so a savings of $100K in comparison to the few thousand that you will make working now). If you don't make it into the top 5-10 people, then you still have a full 2 years of law school left where you can work and do other things to try and line something up for after graduation.

IMO, the difference in terms of your monthly payments between $150k in loans versus $165k is not going to be that large (and you are going to struggle to repay those loans regardless if you go into private practice and opt a typical 10 year repayment plan).

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kkklick
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby kkklick » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:06 am

Coming out of school with 150K is scary... Luckily in Canada tuition is about 18K. So a manageable 50-70K all things considered. In about 2 years I could have it paid off, I would suggest transferring to a place with cheaper tuition, 50K is brutal.

Beantown26
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby Beantown26 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:16 am

I feel like you cannot listen to the "reasonable man"...he is on the site way too much...

Dude go to a bar, get a hobby, etc...

check the site once in awhile...find your balance...

TLS is not real life...

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reasonable_man
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:21 am

Beantown26 wrote:I feel like you cannot listen to the "reasonable man"...he is on the site way too much...

Dude go to a bar, get a hobby, etc...

check the site once in awhile...find your balance...

TLS is not real life...


2600 posts in 18 months is equal to less than 5 posts per day my friend. This argument has been tried and has failed. I'm better than you in every possible way; it really is that simple. Now if you'll excuse me, the shoe shine guy has arrived at my office and my shoes require some attention. If you'd like, I'll get his card, he may need an assistant.
Last edited by reasonable_man on Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:26 am

Beantown26 wrote:I feel like you cannot listen to the "reasonable man"...he is on the site way too much...

Dude go to a bar, get a hobby, etc...

check the site once in awhile...find your balance...

TLS is not real life...



RM gave the guy good advice. Tough it out, then get a job next year. This guy is more likely than not gonna end up with a job that won't allow him to easily pay back the nearly 150K in loans he has. The experience he'll earn at a job will make him more marketable, and allow him to keep the debt load as low as possible.

WhoMe?
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby WhoMe? » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:11 pm

keep in mind that if you are in the top 5-10 people, you might be able to negotiate a full-ride out of your TTT for your last 2 years


Does this happen? I had assumed that transfer students would pay full sticker price. Which schools give full rides to transfers?

wannabe146
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby wannabe146 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:20 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but what is IBR? How much does it actually forgive of your loans?

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patrickd139
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:28 pm

wannabe146 wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but what is IBR? How much does it actually forgive of your loans?

IBR= Income based repayment (of student loans). Based on your income, the school/foundation/endowment/whatever pays down your loans either in part or full based on how much you make. For the long version, you can use the search function at the bottom of the page. It's been covered en masse on this forum.

Beantown26
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby Beantown26 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:34 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Beantown26 wrote:I feel like you cannot listen to the "reasonable man"...he is on the site way too much...

Dude go to a bar, get a hobby, etc...

check the site once in awhile...find your balance...

TLS is not real life...


2600 posts in 18 months is equal to less than 5 posts per day my friend. This argument has been tried and has failed. I'm better than you in every possible way; it really is that simple. Now if you'll excuse me, the shoe shine guy has arrived at my office and my shoes require some attention. If you'd like, I'll get his card, he may need an assistant.


Few things...

First off 5 posts a day is a lot...busy people with big things going on do not have time for 5 posts a day...

Second...your too emotional...emotions will kill you in most careers....it will probably limit you somewhat...

Third...cool out bro...let other people "ruin" their lives and you go get your shoe shined, read your comic books, attend the Star Wars conventions, play online video games, etc...

And to all...the reason you hear mostly bad things on this site...like not being able to get jobs and related items, is because the people who have jobs do not have time to post here...the people who have jobs are making PAPER...not posting on TLS...my guess is the people who do the majority of the posting are below average...my advice to people is find a hobby or activity that contributes to your net wealth...

Let’s face it… most “nerds” are terrible with people; hence they struggle with job interviews…because they are forced to communicate in person and not on blogs, websites, TLS, etc…and they panic…

Don’t post 2600 items on TLS...do something more productive...

Law School is fantastic...and I think if you want to go you should...it’s just different in that many people that attend are nothing...(medical school and business school require a certain level of achievement before entering…therefore a higher quality person attends overall) a bunch of kids who majored in history, political science, and english...these kids can't get real jobs if they wanted one coming out of school, so it makes it that much harder to market them even after a law degree….
I suggested majoring in accounting, engineering, finance, maybe something medical related, etc…you will be marketable before law school and after as well…it gives you options….

And to the “reasonableman” just try and read the post and not respond…I know you want to…but walk away…you can do it…step back…take your hands off the mouse….that’s it walk away…

I’m guessing you couldn’t…your emotions would never allow that…o well

Good luck to everyone…I hope everyone is working hard…making paper…doing what they love and following their dreams…MUCH LOVE!!!

PEACE
P.S. I left some grammatical errors …I know some people on this site love correcting posts…ENJOY!!!

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JazzOne
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:38 pm

katekate wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:Have you looked into whether or not you can actually get the loans? Fed loans are limited by what your school sets as cost of attendance, they can get you more on a case by case basis, but you usually have to have a compelling reason. Private loans are usually credit based, and you'll have to make sure you can consolidate them with fed loans in the future for them to qualify for IBR. I'm not saying you can't but things you want to look into before you start spending again.


Yeah, I took loans quite a bit less than COA because I thought I could live on less money... I think I was wrong and I will have to borrow a little more.

Also... I'm not at a TTT... and I don't want to get a job because it would distract me from my classes/ the money I could make is not worth that distraction in my mind. Especially first semester 1L.

Taking a part-time job is one of the few avenues available to full-time employment. Or, I guess you could gamble your life on OCI.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:38 pm

Beantown sounds like one of those posters who will disappear from the boards after ending up below median at his TTT.

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JazzOne
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Re: Loans... point of no return?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:40 pm

Beantown26 wrote:And to all...the reason you hear mostly bad things on this site...like not being able to get jobs and related items, is because the people who have jobs do not have time to post here...the people who have jobs are making PAPER...not posting on TLS...my guess is the people who do the majority of the posting are below average...my advice to people is find a hobby or activity that contributes to your net wealth...

Dude, you're retarded. There are more biglaw SAs on this board than I can count. The posters here represent Law Reviews up and down the T1. You'd be lucky to achieve half of what some of the regulars have done. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Just because I have a job (and related items?) and make PAPER doesn't mean I'm blind to the scam.
Last edited by JazzOne on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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