How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
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TaipeiMort
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:37 pm

cornelldude12 wrote:Okay, first off, I was not saying that my family is rich, because they are far from it. I am saying that they choose to spend and save their money in irrational ways and for silly reasons, which leads them to the fallacy that they cannot pay for law school, when in reality they could at least contribute something in order to get me through. I didn't mean I was smart enough to get into the top 6, I meant that I would probably only choose to go to law school if I got into the top 6. I do love law, but with the amount of time/money I would have to muster to go through law school, it would not be worth it to settle for anything less unless it was a major scholarship at a still high school.

But like, I think most people are missing the point I was trying to make. How do schools like Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, etc allocate their need money for financial aid? As in, how would they choose which people will get need grants?


I am attending a T6 school this year, am 24 and married, and have a one-year-old son. I will not be getting much aid from my school. I would rather drink poison than ask my upper-middle-class parents to subsidize my law school education.
Your parents probably have spent the last twenty something years pulling ou and your siblings faces through life. Who cares if they want to spend their extra means on a cruise, cigarettes, McDonalds, Faberge eggs , or anything else weird or excessive?

Two years ago my wife was pregnant with my son and was in the hospital with serious kidney problems. Our old car was in the shop for a big repair and I had no idea how I was going to pay for anything baby or life related. My parents were not able to provide much assistance. At the same time I was taking 16 credits in an uber-competitive top UG business school and finishing another major in Chinese. I had for some time been establishing a Chinese manufacturing consulting business. Even in my darkest time, when it looked like everything would fall apart, I pushed forward with faith in myself and God’s purposes for me. I had no sleep, spent three hours after midnight every night conducting conference calls with China, conducted business meetings out of hospital rooms, and found myself having only hours to study when others had weeks. With no money I had to charge plane flights to China off of credit cards and worry about my sick/pregnant wife and exams while trying to get needed sleep on flights. I had plenty of desperate moments, but I kept pushing and eventually found success in my business, school, and life.

Easy opportunities are dwindling in America. If you do have the honor to get into a T6 school, deciding not to go for a crap reason like your parents decided not to spend money on you would be stupid. Learn to bootstrap and rely on yourself or I promise you will one day run out of opportunity. Conversely, Walmart still has opportunities for those that can speak Spanish and some call centers haven’t been outsourced to India.

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GordonCole
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby GordonCole » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:43 pm

cornelldude12 wrote:How do schools like Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Penn, etc allocate their need money for financial aid? As in, how would they choose which people will get need grants?

I had a pretty similar situation; similar amount of student loan debt and parents who, sadly, won't give me free money. My advice is don't count on any need based aid but just apply to a range of schools and figure it out then. Broadly speaking, my impression was that need based aid is often really a combo of merit and need. In my own case, I didn't get into HYS but did get into CCN. Columbia gave me $0, Chicago gave me $45k and NYU gave me $50k. I'm happy with how everything worked out. But then again, I don't have a terrible petulant attitude.

Ultimately, I think you need to realize that law school is expensive and nobody owes you an elite legal education. You might just have to settle for a lower ranked school if you can't justify borrowing the entire cost of attendance at your top choice. You're not the first person to face that choice.

cornelldude12
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby cornelldude12 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:12 am

First of all, Kick-ass is a great movie.

Second of all, thank you vanwinkle/gordoncole for the only truly relevant responses.

Third of all, I think you guys should know a little about my spoiled background before making any assumptions. I was born with a rare immune system condition that causes things like simple colds to be seriously detrimental to my health, and things like pneumonia to be deadly. Believe me, it was a slightly difficult two decades of my life being rushed to the hospital for minor illnesses every couple months and not knowing whether the next day would be my last. Also, I had to deal with my parents' wonderful "marriage" my entire life in which I was subject to the brutal screaming and constant cussing and thrown objects in my house, which I was lucky enough to be thrown in the middle of, and got to experience the wrath of both of my parents. Because of these wonderful things, I was forced to work 30 hours a week during high school, and had to pay for everything myself, in addition to not being able to continue the passion of my life, which was tennis at the time. It would be nice to say that my parents paid for all sorts of cool things when I was a child, but then I remember that my car, my computer, cell phone, gas, car insurance, and part of my undergrad education are paid for by me, despite my father's job as senior vice president of a company. Then of course, there was the death of my best friend in a car accident. Then such lovely things like my mother refusing to submit her tax forms for college because she was still furious that I chose to go on a 3-day vacation with my father, which I somehow had to explain to Cornell, and did not manage to get financial aid until the end of the first year. Luckily though, through the miracle of medicine, my condition became more controllable, and somehow my parents have become more forgiving after their divorce, resulting in them paying a portion of my education. But of course I still work throughout college with a double major and have averaged 19 credits per semester at a college that many consider quite difficult and attempt to have a social life that did not really exist before thanks to everything. Again, I know most of you have probably been through much worse, but still, I thought you should know a bit about me before making assumptions. I apologize for bringing up the idea that my parents would want to give me a little money to help with law school after what I've been through.

Finally, as all of the above is mostly irrelevant, do CCN give any kind of need grants? Also, if I get a small amount of need grants from Cornell right now, what kind would I expect from HYS (assuming a miracle happens and I would ever be able to get in)?

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:24 am

cornelldude12 wrote:First of all, Kick-ass is a great movie.

Second of all, thank you vanwinkle/gordoncole for the only truly relevant responses.

Third of all, I think you guys should know a little about my spoiled background before making any assumptions. I was born with a rare immune system condition that causes things like simple colds to be seriously detrimental to my health, and things like pneumonia to be deadly. Believe me, it was a slightly difficult two decades of my life being rushed to the hospital for minor illnesses every couple months and not knowing whether the next day would be my last. Also, I had to deal with my parents' wonderful "marriage" my entire life in which I was subject to the brutal screaming and constant cussing and thrown objects in my house, which I was lucky enough to be thrown in the middle of, and got to experience the wrath of both of my parents. Because of these wonderful things, I was forced to work 30 hours a week during high school, and had to pay for everything myself, in addition to not being able to continue the passion of my life, which was tennis at the time. It would be nice to say that my parents paid for all sorts of cool things when I was a child, but then I remember that my car, my computer, cell phone, gas, car insurance, and part of my undergrad education are paid for by me, despite my father's job as senior vice president of a company. Then of course, there was the death of my best friend in a car accident. Then such lovely things like my mother refusing to submit her tax forms for college because she was still furious that I chose to go on a 3-day vacation with my father, which I somehow had to explain to Cornell, and did not manage to get financial aid until the end of the first year. Luckily though, through the miracle of medicine, my condition became more controllable, and somehow my parents have become more forgiving after their divorce, resulting in them paying a portion of my education. But of course I still work throughout college with a double major and have averaged 19 credits per semester at a college that many consider quite difficult and attempt to have a social life that did not really exist before thanks to everything. Again, I know most of you have probably been through much worse, but still, I thought you should know a bit about me before making assumptions. I apologize for bringing up the idea that my parents would want to give me a little money to help with law school after what I've been through.

Finally, as all of the above is mostly irrelevant, do CCN give any kind of need grants? Also, if I get a small amount of need grants from Cornell right now, what kind would I expect from HYS (assuming a miracle happens and I would ever be able to get in)?


Sorry for your medical condition, that sucks. I almost died from a rare disease when I was 5 years old (Kawasaki disease...went into shock and had to be paddle-shocked back to life), so I do feel you there. But otherwise, your situation is no different (and probably better) than a lot of students. To give you an idea...I grew up the first 10 or so years of my life quite well off. My father, the breadwinner of the family (my mom worked, but not making that much, since my dad was bringing in bank) was arrested and thrown in jail for a year for stalking his mistress. Yeah, true muthafuckin story. He wasn't able to find a real job after that. I was forced to work 2 jobs through high school and college, and still graduated from a top 25 school in 3 and a half years, so I could go and REALLY work. So, sorry if I give a "wah wahhhh" to your story, but sack up and realize that life isn't all sunshine and rainbows, and chances are that a lot of people probably have it worse off than you, noob. I would have sympathy for you, if you weren't so pompous and self-entitled. That just shows you have a lot to learn about the world.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:26 am

I just don't get these self-entitled people, I guess. Your life is what you make of it. Stop blaming your parents, your siblings, the guy down the street for your circumstances. Your future is in your hands. Get with the damn program.

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romothesavior
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:32 am

cornelldude12 wrote:Okay, first off, I was not saying that my family is rich, because they are far from it. I am saying that they choose to spend and save their money in irrational ways and for silly reasons, which leads them to the fallacy that they cannot pay for law school, when in reality they could at least contribute something in order to get me through. I didn't mean I was smart enough to get into the top 6, I meant that I would probably only choose to go to law school if I got into the top 6. I do love law, but with the amount of time/money I would have to muster to go through law school, it would not be worth it to settle for anything less unless it was a major scholarship at a still high school.


My parents are not helping with law school, nor do I feel any need for them to do so. They have made SO many sacrifices for me throughout their lives, and I want them to spend their money on themselves, my younger siblings, and save it for retirement.

You should realize that your parents have done the same for you and respect the fact that THEY NO LONGER OWE YOU A DAMN THING. YOU ARE A BIG BOY NOW. Suck it up. It is your parents' money, not yours. They have probably spent tens of thousands of dollars on you, and now it is time for YOU to pick up the tab. That's what grown-ups do. You are going to be, what, 22+ by the time you start law school? Time to get off your parents' teat. YOU ARE AN ADULT!!! START ACTING LIKE IT!!!

Also, if you can get into a T6, it would be well-worth sticker. Can't afford MVBP at sticker? Go to a T30 on full-scholly. Simple as that, dood. Plenty of people do it. Stop being a whiny-b*tch.

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romothesavior
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:34 am

presh wrote:
cornelldude12 wrote:Okay, first off, I was not saying that my family is rich, because they are far from it. I am saying that they choose to spend and save their money in irrational ways and for silly reasons, which leads them to the fallacy that they cannot pay for law school, when in reality they could at least contribute something in order to get me through.


Wow. :shock:


Yes wow. This line makes me want to curb stomp OP. Or maybe go all Sonny Corleone on him in the street.

I remember being a snot-nosed little 16-year old who didn't pay for anything and thought money grew on trees. But you know what? I grew out of it. I'm only 22 (young for these boards), but I now recognize and appreciate how expensive and time-consuming it is to raise a kid and dedicate yourself to them. My parents just bought a new house and I couldn't be happier for them. Why? Because it is the first time in YEARS that they spent serious money on something they want to do instead of my siblings and I. I would have never recognized things like this a few years ago, but I sure realize it now.

Here's to hoping OP grows the hell up too.
Last edited by romothesavior on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:35 am

romothesavior wrote:
cornelldude12 wrote:Okay, first off, I was not saying that my family is rich, because they are far from it. I am saying that they choose to spend and save their money in irrational ways and for silly reasons, which leads them to the fallacy that they cannot pay for law school, when in reality they could at least contribute something in order to get me through. I didn't mean I was smart enough to get into the top 6, I meant that I would probably only choose to go to law school if I got into the top 6. I do love law, but with the amount of time/money I would have to muster to go through law school, it would not be worth it to settle for anything less unless it was a major scholarship at a still high school.


My parents are not helping with law school, nor do I feel any need for them to do so. They have made SO many sacrifices for me throughout their lives, and I want them to spend their money on themselves, my younger siblings, and save it for retirement.

You should realize that your parents have done the same for you and respect the fact that THEY NO LONGER OWE YOU A DAMN THING. YOU ARE A BIG BOY NOW. Suck it up. It is your parents' money, not yours. They have probably spent tens of thousands of dollars on you, and now it is time for YOU to pick up the tab. That's what grown-ups do. You are going to be, what, 22+ by the time you start law school? Time to get off your parents' teat. YOU ARE AN ADULT!!! START ACTING LIKE IT!!!

Also, if you can get into a T6, it would be well-worth sticker. Can't afford MVBP at sticker? Go to a T30 on full-scholly. Simple as that, dood. Plenty of people do it. Stop being a whiny-b*tch.


Romo, I love that we both got to bring up "the teat" at some point in this thread. It's a rare occasion when you get to use such a wonderful phrase.

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romothesavior
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:38 am

chicagolaw2013 wrote:Romo, I love that we both got to bring up "the teat" at some point in this thread. It's a rare occasion when you get to use such a wonderful phrase.


:D :D :D

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trialjunky
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby trialjunky » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:16 am

Initially, I was going to post somthing on this thread but then I kept seeing Vanwinkle's ban hammer so I opted out of it. Romo and chi, I'm glad you said something.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: How common is it to pay for all of law school with loans?

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:07 pm

trialjunky wrote:Initially, I was going to post somthing on this thread but then I kept seeing Vanwinkle's ban hammer so I opted out of it. Romo and chi, I'm glad you said something.


Awwwww, come on TJ...you know you wanna...LOL




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