NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
ny_counsel
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:14 pm

NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby ny_counsel » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:46 pm

For any vets out there looking to use the GI/Bill to fund that pricey law school tuition. The new amendments (S3447) introduced by Sen. Akaka and currently under review in the VA Affairs Committee will reduce the "Per Credit Hr" payments for all private schools in the following list of states. The states affected happen to be the home of 9 of the top 14 law schools (18 of the top 30 law schools by popularity according to LawSchoolNumbers.com).

May be time to start writing some congressmembers.

By The Numbers:

Assuming the bill is passed as written,
"National Average" cap would be 408.09 per credit/hr
"National Average" fees cap would be 10,510.84

You can compare them against the current payments for the following states.

For Example
Illinois currently pays 575.08 per credit/hr and 12,836 in fees.
Assuming 15 credit/hrs a semester, that is a net loss of $5009 a year in potential payments.

(575.08 - 408.09)*15 credit hrs*2 semesters = 5009.70

The fee reduction is not likely to be as big a factor since few law schools have significant fees associated with them.

Ranked by degree of impact from least impacted to most impacted......New York, Michigan, and Texas schools get hammered.

North Dakota
Louisiana
Kentucky
Georgia
Oregon
Mississippi
New Jersey
Maryland
Ohio
South Carolina
Vermont
North Carolina
Colorado
Connecticut
Illinois
Arizona
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Pennsylvania
New Hampshire
Michigan
New York
Texas

ambernwalker
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:12 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby ambernwalker » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:53 pm

I also saw this article in the Army Times. This is not good news at all. Where did you get the numbers for the average tuition cap? I didn't see that in the article. I see how it could help out a few students who don't get much for whatever state they are in, but not a whole lot. But it would really suck for me. I want to go to a school in Texas, mainly because of the high tuition cap. I'm using my post 9-11 right now to finish up my MBA and it has been a good experience so far.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:15 pm

I've already e-mailed both Senators and my Congressman... I suggest all veterans do the same even if it doesn't directly affect them.

CyLaw
Posts: 1557
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby CyLaw » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:29 pm

Just read the bill. Anyone know of a rationale behind the cap part. The rest of the bill looks sensible (on first glance)

Re: NY, don't forget about Yellow Ribbon. Cornell at least pays 100% of remaining tuition under Yellow Ribbon, so veterans there will not be affected. Still, this bill needs to be amended to remove this cap.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:34 pm

Michigan also offers an automatic Yellow Ribbon so it doesn't really affect me that much...

Upon reading it, it says the full amount at a public institution (would this raise it to cover Michigan anyhow?) or highest rate of ALL institutions...so not sure you can calculate the way OP did from the current VA rates. Will see what my senator/congressman says when he e-mails me back.

The problem with the current cap is some states like CA have a ridiculously low tuition for residents so they get basically nothing for going to a private school there. This cap may not be so bad depending on how they calculate the average cost at ALL institutions...

Edit: Also, Cornell only gives out 20 Yellow Ribbons scholarships to the whole law school...so not a great deal compared to some schools like Michigan that give an unlimited number out.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:41 pm

Nightrunner wrote:I intend absolutely no snark with this statement: does this mean that there is actually an upside (for some) that public educational institutions will be raising their tuition rates pretty heavily in the next few years?


It's already indexed to highest in-state public tuition in each state so it won't go any higher then it would now. The problem is some states set tuition at $160/credit and some at $1010/credit. Depending on how averaged...disaster results.

CyLaw
Posts: 1557
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby CyLaw » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:43 pm

May be wrong, and I am sure Rotor will correct me if I am, but I think they made special arrangements with California regarding the tuition to already adjust for that unfairness.

Personally, I favor the state based cap as it gives comparable financial aid to public and private schools in the same geographic area, as opposed to giving private schools an advantage in one part of the country, and public schools a advantage in other parts of the country.

(Granted a national cap would be advantageous to DC schools who get shafted by DC's low tuition.)

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:46 pm

CyLaw wrote:May be wrong, and I am sure Rotor will correct me if I am, but I think they made special arrangements with California regarding the tuition to already adjust for that unfairness.

Personally, I favor the state based cap as it gives comparable financial aid to public and private schools in the same geographic area, as opposed to giving private schools an advantage in one part of the country, and public schools a advantage in other parts of the country.

(Granted a national cap would be advantageous to DC schools who get shafted by DC's low tuition.)


They did fix CA somewhat...it was nothing as they had no tuition but had "fees". The state of CA just relabeled the expense. I agree that state based is the way to go. They also make no mention under the proposed bill about what you would do for law school. It is all based on a bachelors...so is 100% at public law schools covered or only to what 100% would be for a bachelors in that state? national average at public schools while private law schools get national average at ALL schools?

ny_counsel
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:14 pm

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby ny_counsel » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:49 am

The average I used was the Overseas numbers (which is already pegged to the average).

Big winners = Any public schools and private schools in relatively low cost states.

Big Losers = Private schools in states that already charge too much for schooling.

Also, in the Air Force Time article I read about the issue, it was suggested that the new standards would apply to graduate degree programs and private institutions (though that does not appear to be what is written)

Here's the text....you can decide if you like it or not.

SEC. 3. MODIFICATION OF AMOUNT OF ASSISTANCE AND TYPES OF APPROVED PROGRAMS OF EDUCATION.

(a) Amount of Educational Assistance for Programs of Education Pursued at Public, Non-Public, and Foreign Institutions of Higher Learning- Section 3313(c) of title 38, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by striking the subsection heading and inserting the following: `Programs of Education at Institutions of Higher Learning Pursued at More Than Half-Time Basis- ';

(2) in the matter preceding paragraph (1) by inserting `at an institution of higher learning (as defined in section 3452(f) of this title)' after `program of education'; and

(3) in paragraph (1), by amending subparagraph (A) to read as follows:

`(A) An amount equal to--

`(i) in the case that such institution is a public institution of higher learning, the established charges for the program of education; and

`(ii) in the case that such institution is a non-public or foreign institution of higher learning, the lesser of--

`(I) the established charges for the program of education; or

`(II) the amount of the average of the established charges at all institutions of higher learning in the United States for a program of education leading to a baccalaureate degree as determined by the National Center for Education Statistics of the Department of Education for the most recent academic year.'.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:09 am

.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:12 am

After visiting the National Center for Education Statistics, it appears that the average cost of a 4 year public university in 2008 (last year available) was $13,424 while for a private it was $30,393. Maybe the average per credit won't work out so bad after all....

ny_counsel
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:14 pm

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby ny_counsel » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:27 pm

blowhard,

Good catch on ALL versus PUBLIC distinction.

Ok, so assuming they use those numbers and weight each average cost of attendance by the percentage of students attending public and private 4 year undergraduate degree granting institutions.

7.2 million PUBLIC and 4.4 million PRIVATE (Source: http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372)

One could expect the average national cost of attendance to be about $21,000. Which is better than the 15~16K one could reasonably expect to get using the overseas numbers, but still worse than the +30K I was counting on for NY.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: NEW: 9/11 GI Bill Amendments Could Adversely Affect YOU

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:23 pm

I emailed my senators and suggest you all do as well but this is still really early in the process. I defintiley wouldn't change any plans because of it.




Return to “Financial Aid”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ellielaw and 2 guests