IBR discussion

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
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bluejayk
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby bluejayk » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:08 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
interestedbyestander wrote:So naive. Not worth arguing about though. By all means sign your life away to this program, and good luck, you will need it.


Translation: "I'm going to declare victory and run away like the unintelligent douchebag that I am."


The sky is falling, sorry you can't see that. Anyway, I suppose it doesn't matter with 2012 coming..

interestedbyestander
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby interestedbyestander » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:09 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
interestedbyestander wrote:So naive. Not worth arguing about though. By all means sign your life away to this program, and good luck, you will need it.


Translation: "I'm going to declare victory and run away like the unintelligent douchebag that I am."


Very professional, you sure showed me. I'm done here.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:11 pm

interestedbyestander wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
interestedbyestander wrote:So naive. Not worth arguing about though. By all means sign your life away to this program, and good luck, you will need it.


Translation: "I'm going to declare victory and run away like the unintelligent douchebag that I am."


Very professional, you sure showed me. I'm done here.


Who needs to be professional toward a fleeing douchebag?

Goodbye, fleeing douchebag.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:28 pm

bluejayk wrote:The sky is falling, sorry you can't see that. Anyway, I suppose it doesn't matter with 2012 coming..


I know, I even watched the movie and I'm still not heeding the warnings! How apathetic of me, living like there's still a tomorrow.

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:35 pm

What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.

09042014
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:39 pm

ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.


I don't think there is a salary limit for IBR. At least not one I can find.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby D. H2Oman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:41 pm

ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.



The payments would go up when one gets raises, but you can still use IBR

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.


I don't think there is a salary limit for IBR. At least not one I can find.


No, you no longer qualify for IBR if you make more money annually than you owe. So my question is, what happens if you're no longer eligible for IBR and you're only a couple years from having your entire debt forgiven?

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YCrevolution
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:44 pm

..

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D. H2Oman
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby D. H2Oman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:45 pm

ps494 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.


I don't think there is a salary limit for IBR. At least not one I can find.


No, you no longer qualify for IBR if you make more money annually than you owe. So my question is, what happens if you're no longer eligible for IBR and you're only a couple years from having your entire debt forgiven?



Hmmmm, didn't know that, seems like you've found a potential issue.

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:48 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
ps494 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.


I don't think there is a salary limit for IBR. At least not one I can find.


No, you no longer qualify for IBR if you make more money annually than you owe. So my question is, what happens if you're no longer eligible for IBR and you're only a couple years from having your entire debt forgiven?

Citation?


Using the IBR calculator in the link OP provided, I plugged in an annual salary of 90k with a debt load of 80k, and the results said that I probably would not qualify for IBR. I mean do you think you would still be eligible for IBR if you ended up making 150k and only have 70k in debt left?

Edit: Numbers
Last edited by ps494 on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:50 pm

ps494 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.


I don't think there is a salary limit for IBR. At least not one I can find.


No, you no longer qualify for IBR if you make more money annually than you owe. So my question is, what happens if you're no longer eligible for IBR and you're only a couple years from having your entire debt forgiven?


Got a link on the details, all the info I can find is really general.

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YCrevolution
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:52 pm

..

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:55 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ps494 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ps494 wrote:What happens in this scenario: A person is eligible for IBR in the beginning of his career, but after a few years pays down his debt to around 65k. Meanwhile he has gotten several raises and now makes 70k, so he is no longer eligible for IBR. He is 2 years from reaching the 10 year point where his entire debt will be wiped clean. Did this person just get screwed over? Now he has to make normal payments and also has to continue to pay off his debt or the next 15 years. It seems like someone would want to keep their salary low (to a certain extent) so their debt will be forgiven after 10 years.


I don't think there is a salary limit for IBR. At least not one I can find.


No, you no longer qualify for IBR if you make more money annually than you owe. So my question is, what happens if you're no longer eligible for IBR and you're only a couple years from having your entire debt forgiven?


Got a link on the details, all the info I can find is really general.


No, I've never found anything that specifically says that someone can become ineligible for IBR, but the federal government obviously is going to wipe your debt clean if you end up making six figures as an AUSA or something when you have only 50k in debt.

FeuerFrei
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby FeuerFrei » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:19 pm

.
Last edited by FeuerFrei on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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YCrevolution
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:21 pm

..

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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:47 pm

ps494 wrote:
No, I've never found anything that specifically says that someone can become ineligible for IBR, but the federal government obviously is going to wipe your debt clean if you end up making six figures as an AUSA or something when you have only 50k in debt.


The way IBR works is that you never have to pay more than a certain percent of your salary each year to your loans. At the end of the time period, which should correspond with your loan period somehow, if you still owe loans then the federal ones are forgiven.

Say you have a 10 year repayment plan, and you graduate with a fed gov't job in hand. If you owe 200k in loans, you put it all on a ten year plan, making your payments (just a guess) $2,500 a month. If you start at 75k a year, you'll only have to pay 12% of that amount to your loans, like 10k, each year. You'll get out of 15k of payments that year. That is not immediately forgiven, it effectively gets chucked back into the amount you still owe. After 4 years, if you are making 120k, then you are paying 14,000 a year, and will not have to pay 11k that year. At the end of the 10 years with the gov, you'll still owe 100k in debt because your payments were only half of what you agreed to pay. if 75k of your original debt was federal, though, about 37k of that is gone, forgiven. You'll still owe 63k on your private loans. That may actually be higher because of interest, though I'm not sure.

At any rate, that is the equivalent of a 37k scholarship. Not amazing but not bad.

by my reading of it, if you leave the gov't after 9 years, you'll owe the whole thing, but at least your payments were manageable while you were in govt.

There is also a 25 year version, but 12% of your salary would likely cover your payments if you make over 100k in federal work.

I don't think IBR is a very compelling reason to stop considering scholarships.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:13 pm

The Brainalist wrote:I don't think IBR is a very compelling reason to stop considering scholarships.


I think it is in a very specific set of circumstances (when choosing between a T14 and a much lower-ranked school, and when you're sure you want to do PI when you graduate). The T14 will give you much better chances at the most desirable PI jobs and the IBR will make your debt manageable for 10yr and then forgive the rest.

I wouldn't recommend IBR as a solution in all circumstances, but there is at least one scenario where I did use it to justify turning down big scholarships at lower-ranked schools, and where I would recommend the same strategy to others.

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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:17 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:I don't think IBR is a very compelling reason to stop considering scholarships.


I think it is in a very specific set of circumstances (when choosing between a T14 and a much lower-ranked school, and when you're sure you want to do PI when you graduate). The T14 will give you much better chances at the most desirable PI jobs and the IBR will make your debt manageable for 10yr and then forgive the rest.

I wouldn't recommend IBR as a solution in all circumstances, but there is at least one scenario where I did use it to justify turning down big scholarships at lower-ranked schools, and where I would recommend the same strategy to others.


I'm also reading, on less reputable sites, of the difficulty of getting a government job even from a T14. It just seems like a reall hard thing to bank on all around. Also, by my calculation, best case scenario was you save 37k. It doesn't exactly slam the scales down to one side in a cost-benefit analysis. You may turn down a 1/2 tuition scholarship with that in mind, I guess.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:21 pm

The Brainalist wrote:I'm also reading, on less reputable sites, of the difficulty of getting a government job even from a T14. It just seems like a reall hard thing to bank on all around. Also, by my calculation, best case scenario was you save 37k. It doesn't exactly slam the scales down to one side in a cost-benefit analysis. You may turn down a 1/2 tuition scholarship with that in mind, I guess.


Well, it's a question of whether you're going all-in or not. I figure if I'm going to go that far into debt I may as well go all-in and give myself the best possible shot. With the way my first-semester grades are looking, that gamble is appearing likely to pay off.

It is a gamble, but so is going to law school at all if you're financing with loans. Either way you're going at least knee-deep in debt by the time you get out. I'd rather go in more to greatly increase my odds of finding post-graduation work if I can, and in this case it appears that I did.

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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:30 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:I'm also reading, on less reputable sites, of the difficulty of getting a government job even from a T14. It just seems like a reall hard thing to bank on all around. Also, by my calculation, best case scenario was you save 37k. It doesn't exactly slam the scales down to one side in a cost-benefit analysis. You may turn down a 1/2 tuition scholarship with that in mind, I guess.


Well, it's a question of whether you're going all-in or not. I figure if I'm going to go that far into debt I may as well go all-in and give myself the best possible shot. With the way my first-semester grades are looking, that gamble is appearing likely to pay off.

It is a gamble, but so is going to law school at all if you're financing with loans. Either way you're going at least knee-deep in debt by the time you get out. I'd rather go in more to greatly increase my odds of finding post-graduation work if I can, and in this case it appears that I did.


If you go into a top 10 or so law school 100% focused on government, you'll probably get it, irrespective of grades, so maybe the gamble isn't too bad. I think a lot of the people complaining about not getting gov't offers are complaining about "not even" being able to get government offers as a fall-back. Otherwise, I don't see why bottom of the class at Duke wouldn't be able to at least get a DA job in a suburb if it was a No. 1 priority. With a 60k per year salary, you could probably get a lot more forgiven, and 50k is a lot of money to a deputy DA.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:33 pm

The Brainalist wrote:If you go into a top 10 or so law school 100% focused on government, you'll probably get it, irrespective of grades, so maybe the gamble isn't too bad. I think a lot of the people complaining about not getting gov't offers are complaining about "not even" being able to get government offers as a fall-back. Otherwise, I don't see why bottom of the class at Duke wouldn't be able to at least get a DA job in a suburb if it was a No. 1 priority. With a 60k per year salary, you could probably get a lot more forgiven, and 50k is a lot of money to a deputy DA.


This is kind of the plan. Top 10 school, willing to take just about any PI work when I graduate. I'm not going to be all /killself if I don't make AUSA or Manhattan DA like a lot of people who view those as some kind of "fallback" from BigLaw instead of getting how prestigious they are too.

It appears I might be pretty rare, though, in that I am pursuing PI so strongly as my first choice. A lot of people look at it as some kind of temporary safety net, and I'll agree that is a huge mistake.

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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:36 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
This is kind of the plan. Top 10 school, willing to take just about any PI work when I graduate. I'm not going to be all /killself if I don't make AUSA or Manhattan DA like a lot of people who view those as some kind of "fallback" from BigLaw instead of getting how prestigious they are too.

It appears I might be pretty rare, though, in that I am pursuing PI so strongly as my first choice. A lot of people look at it as some kind of temporary safety net, and I'll agree that is a huge mistake.


good for you, man. More power to you.

It did just occur to me that my calculation might be wrong, though. Is it possible that, when IBR reduces your total monthly payments, that it does it exclusively by lowering your federal end? In that case, it would seem that all of the remaining balance would be federal, and potentially a huge amount would be forgiven.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:38 pm

The Brainalist wrote:It did just occur to me that my calculation might be wrong, though. Is it possible that, when IBR reduces your total monthly payments, that it does it exclusively by lowering your federal end? In that case, it would seem that all of the remaining balance would be federal, and potentially a huge amount would be forgiven.


I don't quite understand what you're asking.

However, I will say that when I ran the numbers for over $160k of debt and a $40k/yr job, I determined the monthly payments wouldn't even pay all the interest you'd owe, and the unpaid interest recapitalizes back into the amount you owe... so you'd end up having like $200k owed at the end of the 10 years, all of which would be forgiven.

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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:47 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:It did just occur to me that my calculation might be wrong, though. Is it possible that, when IBR reduces your total monthly payments, that it does it exclusively by lowering your federal end? In that case, it would seem that all of the remaining balance would be federal, and potentially a huge amount would be forgiven.


I don't quite understand what you're asking.

However, I will say that when I ran the numbers for over $160k of debt and a $40k/yr job, I determined the monthly payments wouldn't even pay all the interest you'd owe, and the unpaid interest recapitalizes back into the amount you owe... so you'd end up having like $200k owed at the end of the 10 years, all of which would be forgiven.


The question is whether the amount owed at the ten years would be comprised of proportionate parts private and federal loans, or whether it would just be the federal loans left by operation of application of your loan payments during those 10 years.




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