IBR discussion

Discuss various money matters here. Loans (federal and private), scholarships, lottery winnings, or other school finance related information and queries.
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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:54 pm

ps494 wrote:Something doesn't add up, though. It seems like someone could really take advantage this program. What's stopping someone from taking out excessive students loans for frivolous things (i.e. an expensive apartment in Manhattan, a car, etc.) and then just being forgiven for their debt after ten years?



Does it only forgive the federal (not private) loans?

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:55 pm

The Brainalist wrote:
ps494 wrote:Something doesn't add up, though. It seems like someone could really take advantage this program. What's stopping someone from taking out excessive students loans for frivolous things (i.e. an expensive apartment in Manhattan, a car, etc.) and then just being forgiven for their debt after ten years?



Does it only forgive the federal (not private) loans?


Yes, I think it is only federal, but you can take out federal loans for living expenses (i think). I added to my post above btw.

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The Brainalist
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby The Brainalist » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:01 pm

ps494 wrote:
If you're going into PI, then you might as well go to the best school possible and rack up serious debt.


I think that may very well be the point. To allow people to choose the best school and then use that education to the public's benefit.

09042014
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:03 pm

bluejayk wrote:
ps494 wrote:So let me get this straight. A law school graduate could rack up 150k in debt, take a local government job (i.e., public defense or DA's office), make the $420.00 monthly payments, and then be completely forgiven of their debt after 10 years?


You have it straight. Although, no reason to cap yourself at $150k. Colombia/NYU/Fordham could end up costing $200k.

Also, it wouldn't have to be a legal job. IBR is not for law schools, just federal loans in general. You could get an anonymous drone job at the DMV.



I have a failure flow chart. Patent Litigation -> Patent Prosecution -> anything that pays market -> good government job -> ADA in suburbs of Chicago -> ADA in bumble fuck, IL, WI, or IN -> public defender in Chicago -> teach math or science in the inner city (because I saw stand and deliver)-> air force -> flee the country -> JD underground

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:05 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
bluejayk wrote:
ps494 wrote:So let me get this straight. A law school graduate could rack up 150k in debt, take a local government job (i.e., public defense or DA's office), make the $420.00 monthly payments, and then be completely forgiven of their debt after 10 years?


You have it straight. Although, no reason to cap yourself at $150k. Colombia/NYU/Fordham could end up costing $200k.

Also, it wouldn't have to be a legal job. IBR is not for law schools, just federal loans in general. You could get an anonymous drone job at the DMV.



I have a failure flow chart. Patent Litigation -> Patent Prosecution -> anything that pays market -> good government job -> ADA in suburbs of Chicago -> ADA in bumble fuck, IL, WI, or IN -> public defender in Chicago -> teach math or science in the inner city (because I saw stand and deliver)-> air force -> flee the country -> JD underground


:lol:

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YCrevolution
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby YCrevolution » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:14 pm

..

ps494
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby ps494 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:24 pm

I could see IBR either really helping law school grads or REALLY hurting them. Suppose someone is counting on IBR and decides to go to a ridiculously expensive school at full price, but the federal government randomly terminates the program because the U.S. is drowning in debt. What then? JDunderground?

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bluejayk
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby bluejayk » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:29 pm

Generally, when you take out loans, the conditions that apply when you take the loan endure for the lifetime of that loan unless otherwise noted. If the government cancels IBR, then they'll announce that starting in 2011 that future loans will not be forgiven. So I don't think they're gonna leave anyone holding the bag in the unlikely event that IBR is canceled.

interestedbyestander
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby interestedbyestander » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:58 pm

bluejayk wrote:Generally, when you take out loans, the conditions that apply when you take the loan endure for the lifetime of that loan unless otherwise noted. If the government cancels IBR, then they'll announce that starting in 2011 that future loans will not be forgiven. So I don't think they're gonna leave anyone holding the bag in the unlikely event that IBR is canceled.


This makes so much sense but doing this would still scare the hell out me because the government is involved. The future deficit forecasts in the next 5-10 years are astonishing. Am I saying that I don't trust the government to make logical and fair decisions in such a pressing environment? .... Yes.

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kumba84
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby kumba84 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:02 am

ps494 wrote:Something doesn't add up, though. It seems like someone could really take advantage this program. What's stopping someone from taking out excessive students loans for frivolous things (i.e. an expensive apartment in Manhattan, a car, etc.) and then just being forgiven for their debt after ten years?

I guess what I'm wondering is what incentive does a perspective law student have to keep their debt to a minimum. If you're going into PI, then you might as well go to the best school possible and rack up serious debt.


Regulations do not allow federal loans to cover car payments, and most law schools will only allow you to borrow "up to your need." If you choose to borrow more than that, you'll probably have to take out private loans, which aren't covered by IBR.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:27 am

ps494 wrote:I could see IBR either really helping law school grads or REALLY hurting them. Suppose someone is counting on IBR and decides to go to a ridiculously expensive school at full price, but the federal government randomly terminates the program because the U.S. is drowning in debt. What then? JDunderground?


If the government defaults on anything, it won't be for another 20-30 years. We have the capability to keep things going for at least that long. By then I plan to be independently wealthy and able to move to another continent if I need to.

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YCrevolution
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:31 am

..

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:45 am

YCrevolution wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:If the government defaults on anything, it won't be for another 20-30 years. We have the capability to keep things going for at least that long. By then I plan to be independently wealthy and able to move to another continent if I need to.

Swiss banks? Or Cayman Islands?


Swiss banks will work. I'm not intending to hide my savings from the U.S., just keep them outside the country.

YCrevolution wrote:Also, if the US defaults on its debt obligations, we're all going to have far greater issues than what to do with the IBR program. And, while I realize that this a very novel idea, we could actually decide to raise taxes before the US goes bankrupt.


TITCR, except for the fact that everyone in this country is brainwashed to think that they're "entitled" to live in a country with great benefits and low taxes, causing them to be completely financially irresponsible.

interestedbyestander
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby interestedbyestander » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:55 am

YCrevolution wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
ps494 wrote:I could see IBR either really helping law school grads or REALLY hurting them. Suppose someone is counting on IBR and decides to go to a ridiculously expensive school at full price, but the federal government randomly terminates the program because the U.S. is drowning in debt. What then? JDunderground?


If the government defaults on anything, it won't be for another 20-30 years. We have the capability to keep things going for at least that long. By then I plan to be independently wealthy and able to move to another continent if I need to.

Swiss banks? Or Cayman Islands?

Also, if the US defaults on its debt obligations, we're all going to have far greater issues than what to do with the IBR program. And, while I realize that this a very novel idea, we could actually decide to raise taxes before the US goes bankrupt.


That's correct, which is why the government would terminate such programs before it defaults. But what would happen even before default is that the world (mainly the Chinese) would view this country as a bad risk, stop buying our debt, and a credit crisis would occur that will force a rise in taxes and a serious reduction in spending. In that world, all government programs will be at risk, and some like IBR (that caters to the elite graduate students in this country) could be the first to go.

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YCrevolution
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:14 am

..

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pleasetryagain
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby pleasetryagain » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:51 am

bluejayk wrote:
Versus an alternative of not taking on $150k in debt for a job that you think might only pay $50-60k a year.


Theres something kind of hubris about this as well. "Im going to take out 150k in loans so I can do PI!!!!!!!@#@$@ and change the WORLD!!!@##..its ok though, someone else who cares about money will pick up the tab.. those greedy bastards and their taxes muahhaha."

similar to "im going to buy a house for 400k thats only worth 100k when I make 50k.. then ask for a bailout!"

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letsrun
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby letsrun » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:53 am

You are so optimistic when you think that the US won't default for another 20 to 30 years.

A currency collapse is imminent, good luck. At least you won't have to worry about your student loans I guess.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:14 pm

interestedbyestander wrote:In that world, all government programs will be at risk, and some like IBR (that caters to the elite graduate students in this country) could be the first to go.


The IBR program covers all federal educational lending, not just those loans used to fund graduate programs.

The TSA screener who got a small Stafford loan to cover an AA degree from a local community college, the kid whose getting an accounting degree at State U so that he can help out in the family business, your kid's third-grade math teacher, and the state trooper who is taking night classes in order to get a criminology degree are all eligible to participate in the program. Indeed, these people were the face of the CCRAA when it was signed into law by the Bush administration.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all. Please be seated - unless you don't have a chair. (Laughter.) I welcome you to the White House. I have the honor of signing a bill that will help millions of low-income Americans earn a college degree. I'm really looking forward to signing this bill. I love the fact that this country is dedicated to helping people who want to realize a dream.

--ImageRemoved--

interestedbyestander
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby interestedbyestander » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:26 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote:
interestedbyestander wrote:In that world, all government programs will be at risk, and some like IBR (that caters to the elite graduate students in this country) could be the first to go.


The IBR program covers all federal educational lending, not just those loans used to fund graduate programs.


The point is still the same ... when the government is broke (and this is a very real potential scenario) programs like IBR will seem extremely vunerable compared to others like Defense, SS, Medicare, food stamps, etc. Politically, a program like that would have little support when really hard cuts need to be made, and could easily be at the top of many well-connected people's lists for chopping. Future federal budgets are going to have to be much more austere.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:35 pm

letsrun wrote:You are so optimistic when you think that the US won't default for another 20 to 30 years.

A currency collapse is imminent, good luck. At least you won't have to worry about your student loans I guess.


We are not this bad off. We're pretty bad off, but it's not this bad. I called the current bubble bursting and the current recession, and I'm not too worried. (If anything, I'm worried that we're not spending enough money to dig our way out of the recession right now.) We can keep going for another 20 years or so before our government's finances become so screwed that action will be forced (which is why nothing will happen before then, since the government never cuts anything popular until it has to, and probably not until after).

Anonymous Loser
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:47 pm

This program achieved such wide support when under consideration that I think it's unrealistic to assume that a large portion of Congress will suddenly reverse themselves, waffling on this issue, when there is no shortage of wildly unpopular programs which passed only by the narrowest of margins that could be cut instead.

IBR just isn't even on anyone's radar: if you peruse the suggestions for trimming government expenditures offered up by the usual conservative groups (e.g., Heritage Foundation), federal educational lending in general, and the IBR program specifically, aren't even part of the debate.

Outside of this forum, I've never heard anyone suggest that this program is politically vulnerable: not conservative politicians, not representatives of lending institutions, not financial aid administrators, and certainly not the general public. Hell, a great many of the prospective law students on this board, who are contemplating taking on a six-figure debt in an uncertain job market aren't even aware of this program.

edit: meant to respond to interestedbystander's post above, should have quoted to be clear.
Last edited by Anonymous Loser on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

interestedbyestander
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby interestedbyestander » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:48 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
letsrun wrote:You are so optimistic when you think that the US won't default for another 20 to 30 years.

A currency collapse is imminent, good luck. At least you won't have to worry about your student loans I guess.


We are not this bad off. We're pretty bad off, but it's not this bad. I called the current bubble bursting and the current recession, and I'm not too worried. (If anything, I'm worried that we're not spending enough money to dig our way out of the recession right now.) We can keep going for another 20 years or so before our government's finances become so screwed that action will be forced (which is why nothing will happen before then, since the government never cuts anything popular until it has to, and probably not until after).


I'm sorry but you out of your mind and drinking the "progressive's" kool aid if you believe we can sustain this type of spending for 20 years. I give it 3 years at best before major changes will be required to federal spending. Just look what the states are going through right now, Virginia (normally a very conservative and AAA bond-rated state) is going through MAJOR cuts in their budget. The Federal government is in even worse shape and living on borrowed time.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:55 pm

interestedbyestander wrote:I'm sorry but you out of your mind and drinking the "progressive's" kool aid if you believe we can sustain this type of spending for 20 years. I give it 3 years at best before major changes will be required to federal spending. Just look what the states are going through right now, Virginia (normally a very conservative and AAA bond-rated state) is going through MAJOR cuts in their budget. The Federal government is in even worse shape and living on borrowed time.


I think you're the one drinking the kool-aid. We're still running surpluses on Social Security, and those won't run out for another 10-15 years. It's only after they do that we're going to start having major problems in the federal budget, and even then there's a lot of places (including defense, because my god do we overspend on defense) that can be cut, and taxes can be raised, before going into some of the core universally-supported things like education.

Also, "I'm sorry but you out of your mind"? Really? Learn grammar, then come back and play again.

interestedbyestander
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby interestedbyestander » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:03 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
interestedbyestander wrote:I'm sorry but you out of your mind and drinking the "progressive's" kool aid if you believe we can sustain this type of spending for 20 years. I give it 3 years at best before major changes will be required to federal spending. Just look what the states are going through right now, Virginia (normally a very conservative and AAA bond-rated state) is going through MAJOR cuts in their budget. The Federal government is in even worse shape and living on borrowed time.


I think you're the one drinking the kool-aid. We're still running surpluses on Social Security, and those won't run out for another 10-15 years. It's only after they do that we're going to start having major problems in the federal budget, and even then there's a lot of places (including defense, because my god do we overspend on defense) that can be cut, and taxes can be raised, before going into some of the core universally-supported things like education.

Also, "I'm sorry but you out of your mind"? Really? Learn grammar, then come back and play again.


So naive. Not worth arguing about though. By all means sign your life away to this program, and good luck, you will need it.

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vanwinkle
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Re: IBR discussion

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:05 pm

interestedbyestander wrote:So naive. Not worth arguing about though. By all means sign your life away to this program, and good luck, you will need it.


Translation: "I'm going to declare victory and run away like the unintelligent douchebag that I am."




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