Chances at HYS?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
legends159
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby legends159 » Wed May 06, 2009 12:47 pm

kurama20 wrote: Honestly, if he gets a 3.8 and even a 164 he WILL get into one of the three (probably Stanford). If he gets a 3.9 and a 165 he will basically be auto admit at H and S with very high chances of Y.


Not all URMs are treated the same and not all AA males are treated the same. those numbers will likely get him into most T10 schools, but HYS are anomalies especially in how they treat URMs. Once OP gets into the 3.9/165 range, the rest is really up to his PS/DS. I Imagine if he were a rich black kid whose dad is a big shot lawyer he won't get as much of a diversity bump as someone who endured more hardships.

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jw316
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby jw316 » Wed May 06, 2009 2:05 pm

legends159 wrote:
kurama20 wrote: Honestly, if he gets a 3.8 and even a 164 he WILL get into one of the three (probably Stanford). If he gets a 3.9 and a 165 he will basically be auto admit at H and S with very high chances of Y.


Not all URMs are treated the same and not all AA males are treated the same. those numbers will likely get him into most T10 schools, but HYS are anomalies especially in how they treat URMs. Once OP gets into the 3.9/165 range, the rest is really up to his PS/DS. I Imagine if he were a rich black kid whose dad is a big shot lawyer he won't get as much of a diversity bump as someone who endured more hardships.


If I were to end with a 3.9 cumulative when applying, would it be necessary to write an addendum explaining why it's not a 4.0?

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Skadden Stairs
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby Skadden Stairs » Wed May 06, 2009 2:07 pm

jw316 wrote:
legends159 wrote:
kurama20 wrote: Honestly, if he gets a 3.8 and even a 164 he WILL get into one of the three (probably Stanford). If he gets a 3.9 and a 165 he will basically be auto admit at H and S with very high chances of Y.


Not all URMs are treated the same and not all AA males are treated the same. those numbers will likely get him into most T10 schools, but HYS are anomalies especially in how they treat URMs. Once OP gets into the 3.9/165 range, the rest is really up to his PS/DS. I Imagine if he were a rich black kid whose dad is a big shot lawyer he won't get as much of a diversity bump as someone who endured more hardships.


If I were to end with a 3.9 cumulative when applying, would it be necessary to write an addendum explaining why it's not a 4.0?

lolzzzzz

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kurama20
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby kurama20 » Wed May 06, 2009 2:18 pm

Not all URMs are treated the same and not all AA males are treated the same. those numbers will likely get him into most T10 schools, but HYS are anomalies especially in how they treat URMs. Once OP gets into the 3.9/165 range, the rest is really up to his PS/DS. I Imagine if he were a rich black kid whose dad is a big shot lawyer he won't get as much of a diversity bump as someone who endured more hardships.


Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree big time. From everything I've ever seen, been told, heard, and researched black males with those stats get into AT least one of HYS. Oftentimes they get into all 3. I really don't think you realize how hard these schools fight for black males. Have you seen the Harvard NYU TRIALS program? Also, like a lot of posters you really misunderstand the point of AA. If his dad is a big shot lawyer that will not make any difference. AA is not to combat socioeconomic status, although race and ses coincide so it usually does work in that regard as well, it is mainly about race itself. Being black is a disadvantage in corporate america (relative to being white) PERIOD. Regardless of socioeconomic status. Blacks, and to an incredible degree black males, are underrepresented in the legal field. AA is also about the fact that they have to accept as many qualified black males as they can. Do you know how few black males have a 3.8 GPA and a 164 LSAT combo? I actually think Stanford might be the easiest of the 3 for him because they generally are going to lose to Y and H when it comes to a battle for a black male. Blacks are more likely to pick H or Y over S than white applicants. Factor in everything Harvard does to attract black males, and their huge class size which allows them to swallow up even more, and Stanford just can't afford to reject black males with those stats. I don't care how much money his parents make a 3.8/.9 black male with a 164+ LSAT is getting into at least one of HYS( if he manages to score over a 165 then you can pretty much bet your life on the fact that he's going to get into one). Check out the stats on LSN and everywhere else. CCN on down is a LOCK for a AA male with those stats. However.......
f I were to end with a 3.9 cumulative when applying, would it be necessary to write an addendum explaining why it's not a 4.0?


Flame??? If you're serious then hell no.

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jw316
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby jw316 » Wed May 06, 2009 2:22 pm

f I were to end with a 3.9 cumulative when applying, would it be necessary to write an addendum explaining why it's not a 4.0?


Flame??? If you're serious then hell no.[/quote]

Not at all, from what I've seen on the forums people often write them to explain a low GPA in times of hardship and the only reason my GPA wasn't a 4.0 this semester was due to something I would classify as such. I just wasn't sure if it would be necessary or not.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby OperaAttorney » Wed May 06, 2009 5:23 pm

To the OP:

To increase your chances at HYS, and to experience Europe, I think you should work toward applying for a Rhodes scholarship. The Rhodes scholarship is difficult to get. However, as a Rhodes scholar, you could write your ticket to just about any top law school you want. An African American make with a Rhodes scholarship? That's hot. HYS would clamor for you.

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jw316
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby jw316 » Mon May 17, 2010 3:56 pm

OperaAttorney wrote:To the OP:

To increase your chances at HYS, and to experience Europe, I think you should work toward applying for a Rhodes scholarship. The Rhodes scholarship is difficult to get. However, as a Rhodes scholar, you could write your ticket to just about any top law school you want. An African American make with a Rhodes scholarship? That's hot. HYS would clamor for you.


I know I've still got a while to go before my cycle but I wanted to bump this thread/solicit some more advice.

I just finished my 2nd year of school: 4.0gpa for both semesters, so my cumulative GPA is now a 3.98 with <60 credits left to take. I was considering taking the October LSAT but I don't know if I can adequately prepare in time in order to hit the range I need to hit. I did pretty poorly in high school, to the point where I shouldn't have even gotten into my undergrad (was below 25% GPA, and slightly above 75% ACT score). Given that when I started college I had almost no expectations of doing as well as I have, I feel like with the LSAT the sky is the limit (176-180). Obviously there's a very good chance I'll never even get close and it's not like I'm telling myself 180 or bust, but I guess realizing that my dreams are still possible after 2 years has renewed my spirit.

I've yet to take a cold diagnostic because in all honesty, I know that most people don't score too well on them, and should that be the case I don't want it to mess with my head. From all the time I've spent lurking the boards I know that I can learn how to take this test if I just put in the time to understand how to answers the questions, why 3 answers are wrong, etc.

So that being said:
****1.) Where do I go from here?
*****2.) I'm majoring in Communication/Public Relations. Is this going to be looked down upon by the T-14, etc. even if I manage to keep my GPA/only let it drop slightly?

******3.) The post above mentioned a Rhodes scholarship, I'm not sure how truly competitive I would be for the Rhodes because I didn't continue athletics into college (as well as my major) but I've been thinking about going down the path for a Marshall or a Fulbright...how beneficial would one of these options be?
Last edited by jw316 on Mon May 17, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SBimmer
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby SBimmer » Mon May 17, 2010 3:57 pm

geoanthem wrote:Is this a joke? Come back in a few years.


+1

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jw316
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby jw316 » Mon May 17, 2010 4:26 pm

SBimmer wrote:
geoanthem wrote:Is this a joke? Come back in a few years.


+1


Thanks. But seriously, anyone?

jnorsky
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby jnorsky » Mon May 17, 2010 4:37 pm

man, you are a crazy overachiever. More power to ya kid. But I think you should relax. You have a great GPA, continue to work hard and if that GPA is at the same place after your third year, then you are pretty much set for a T-10 as long as you dont blow the LSAT. That being said, do some interesting things this summer, things you will enjoy and still look good. Dont do everything based on getting into law school (This is coming from someone who did nothing to get into law school except do well on a test on saturday morning and will be going to a T-10). If you do things that you are passionate about and can talk about, it will come across nicely in your application. I wouldnt take the LSAT until you are a junior at least. Maybe try a practice one this summer (real timed conditions) so you know where you stand and you have to go. Other than that, enjoy college dude, because once you leave, a piece of you will be gone forever

sammypdinosaur2
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby sammypdinosaur2 » Mon May 17, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: major UK scholarships. I check these boards sometimes to procrastinate (just read through this entire thread) but have never posted...but I feel like you might need some guidance! As someone who got into all three HYS law schools back in the day, won one of the big UK fellowships (Marshall, Rhodes, Gates), and knows several winners of all three, I think you don't have a clear understanding of how they work, or how they are perceived. If you aren't competitive for the Rhodes, then you won't be for the Marshall. Each of these scholarships literally draws almost a thousand applicants each for a handful of spots. If you get any of the three, you will get into any law school you want. Trust me - all of my Rhodes, Gates, and Marshall friends who applied to law school got into YLS, SLS, etc. The same doesn't seem to apply to the Fulbright, because there are so many available and it varies tremendously in competitiveness.

This is honestly the big reason for ignoring the naysayers who say you should take easy classes and forget the learning aspect of college: if you do that, and if you aren't engaged in exciting academic and extracurricular work, you lose out on some amazing opportunities. You sound really smart and driven, and if you channel some of that energy into pursuits other than GPA/LSAT, you'll be a good candidate for the Marshall or Fulbright (or the Rhodes, Gates, Mitchell...) You'll also find college that much more interesting and will be better off as an applicant to law school (though I'm not advocating letting your GPA drop too far!)

I took several years between UG and law school, pursued interests that didn't lead directly into law, and still got where I want to be. I'm not a URM, so I know things are a little different. Just be confident in your ability to challenge yourself and still maintain your GPA, get a high LSAT score, and get into a top law school - and don't listen to people who think you need to compromise on your undergraduate experience in order to get the numbers you need for a top law school.

Just my two cents...back into hiding now :)

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jw316
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby jw316 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:22 pm

sammypdinosaur2 wrote:Re: major UK scholarships. I check these boards sometimes to procrastinate (just read through this entire thread) but have never posted...but I feel like you might need some guidance! As someone who got into all three HYS law schools back in the day, won one of the big UK fellowships (Marshall, Rhodes, Gates), and knows several winners of all three, I think you don't have a clear understanding of how they work, or how they are perceived. If you aren't competitive for the Rhodes, then you won't be for the Marshall. Each of these scholarships literally draws almost a thousand applicants each for a handful of spots. If you get any of the three, you will get into any law school you want. Trust me - all of my Rhodes, Gates, and Marshall friends who applied to law school got into YLS, SLS, etc. The same doesn't seem to apply to the Fulbright, because there are so many available and it varies tremendously in competitiveness.

This is honestly the big reason for ignoring the naysayers who say you should take easy classes and forget the learning aspect of college: if you do that, and if you aren't engaged in exciting academic and extracurricular work, you lose out on some amazing opportunities. You sound really smart and driven, and if you channel some of that energy into pursuits other than GPA/LSAT, you'll be a good candidate for the Marshall or Fulbright (or the Rhodes, Gates, Mitchell...)


Thank you (and to the previous poster as well) for real responses. Basically I don't really have a mentor or that many people I've been able to consult for advice with the questions I've posed here and when I tried talking to my university advisor about this stuff she was literally clueless "sorry, I don't know". I'm fairly ignorant concerning them so forgive me, but I thought the only thing that set apart the Rhodes from the others was the desire for athletic involvement in college (i.e. club/varsity sports, etc.) in addition to the other factors? If you were a winner of one of the three, can I tap you for any advice? (PM me if you'd like)

sammypdinosaur2
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Re: Chances at HYS?

Postby sammypdinosaur2 » Mon May 17, 2010 8:29 pm

Here are some key differences. Even though I'm telling you this on an online forum, I'd advise ignoring such resources altogether for the UK fellowship process - there's tons of misinformation floating around, and most of what is said on sites like this is colored by the fact that people with all sorts of different credentials and backgrounds are looking at all sorts of different schools. Your school should have a fellowship adviser who can help, or your career services office might be able to put you in touch with a previous recipient. Same thing applies for law school: conventional wisdom on TLS often doesn't mean much when it comes to individual candidates.

To win any one of these, you'll need professors who have your back, great non-academic recommendations, and some combination of awards, intensive activities, jobs, esoteric academic interests, etc. that you can describe in a coherent manner (i.e. in a way that implies you are diverse in your interests and talents, yet focused on something for the future). In a sense, it's all a game. The winners are usually no smarter or more interesting than the ones who just missed the final cut. The way I see it is this: you shouldn't plan your life around winning one of these or going to HYS. These are crapshoots. Just do your best and get involved in things you're passionate about, inside and outside the classroom.

Rhodes: Oxford only, 2-3 years. Funded by Rhodes trust, with application process divided by state. You'll need your university's endorsement. Stereotype: very leadership oriented, and somewhat less focused on academic ability and intentions. The athletics requirement can be fulfilled by basically anything - do you like to take long walks? Dance? This requirement is a bit outdated and very few recipients I know are great athletes!

Marshall: Basically any UK institution, 2-3 years. Funded by the UK gov't, and administered through the consulates. You'll also need your university's endorsement for this one. Stereotype: more academic, with a slight tendency to favor people who plan to go to non-Oxbridge/LSE universities. Allows you to do two one-year programs at different universities, if you want.

Gates: Organized a lot like the Rhodes, but for Cambridge, 1-5 years. Favors people committed to public service. No endorsement from your university - basically your department at Cambridge has to rank you as its top candidate for you to be considered. Ridiculously well-funded.

UK Fulbright: Very tough to get, because there are so few. You need your school's endorsement, and unless you are the cream of the crop it's best to apply to non-Oxbridge/LSE schools if you're going for this.

Mitchell: For graduate study in Ireland or Northern Ireland. Also extremely difficult because of the small number of seats. I don't know much about this, but it's often mentioned in the same breath as the above scholarships.

Incidentally, these are not the only ways to get funding for UK degrees - there are plenty of other scholarships out there.

I won't be back on TLS for the foreseeable future - I've exhausted all the procrastination time I can allot at this point :) Good luck with everything!

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jw316
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Re: Chances at HYS? --- 3.98 vs 3.95 -- Impact?

Postby jw316 » Wed May 04, 2011 1:02 pm

I know this thread is pretty old but didn't really see the point in starting up a new one. For those of you who gave responses before like "lol come back later" etc., I'm now finishing up my junior year.

My cumulative GPA currently sits around 3.98. Due to some major events in the family and other circumstances, my focus, etc. just hasn't been the same. Going into my last two finals, it's looking like I'm going to 3.5 at least one, if not two, courses this semester.

That being said, how likely is a drop in my cumulative gpa from a 3.98 to a 3.95 going to impact admissions chances? (Still waiting to take the LSAT)

**please reply to this if you have some insight to offer, I truly appreciate it

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glewz
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Re: Chances at HYS? --- 3.98 vs 3.95 -- Impact?

Postby glewz » Wed May 04, 2011 1:15 pm

jw316 wrote:I know this thread is pretty old but didn't really see the point in starting up a new one. For those of you who gave responses before like "lol come back later" etc., I'm now finishing up my junior year.

My cumulative GPA currently sits around 3.98. Due to some major events in the family and other circumstances, my focus, etc. just hasn't been the same. Going into my last two finals, it's looking like I'm going to 3.5 at least one, if not two, courses this semester.

That being said, how likely is a drop in my cumulative gpa from a 3.98 to a 3.95 going to impact admissions chances? (Still waiting to take the LSAT)

**please reply to this if you have some insight to offer, I truly appreciate it


Is 3.5 a B+? (wondering if your school does grade inflation)

A 0.03 reduction isn't a big deal, but do finish strong for the rest of college.




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