Big Law African American Hiring

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
bullionbuks
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Big Law African American Hiring

Postby bullionbuks » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:35 pm

I will be attending Georgetown Law this fall. I know that students around the median have a good shot at Big Law. Would African Americans have a chance at Big Law with lesser grades? i.e. those students falling within the top 60% or worse. Thank you in advance.

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Str8As
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby Str8As » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:36 pm

idk but making partner is a whole diff. story--so if that's your foal, keep that in mind too...

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prophecy
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby prophecy » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:35 pm

what does that mean? in reference to the comment about making partner.

nellie06
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby nellie06 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:52 am

prophecy wrote:what does that mean? in reference to the comment about making partner.


It means getting hired is one thing and getting the penultimate promotion is entirely another. Most aa associates don't stick around long enough to be considered because they feel like they'd be better served in a smaller firm/public service/in house counsel/outside of law altogether. The op won't have much to worry about as long as he can keep himself at or near the median at gtown, and even if not, t-14 and aa is probably good enough to get him a biglaw gig.

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indiana_student
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby indiana_student » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:24 pm

prophecy wrote:what does that mean? in reference to the comment about making partner.


The thing one must remember is that high performing African Americans (especially males) are VERY, VERY much in demand. The number one black retention problem at the Chicago NALP250 firm I am summering at is the blacks who hold their own often get better offers from the clients they work on. These corporations also have trouble attracting quality black candidates. The question becomes:

Do I stay on as a senior associate or do I take the Fortune 500 job where I will be in charge of North American legal affairs and make an extra $100,000 a year? Well, it's obvious which spot a lot of people will take.

This was the exact issue that happened to two fourth year black associates this summer (one female, one male). I witnessed it with my own eyes. The thing is, you could tell these two were going to be partners if they stuck with the firm, but they could make a huge jump without waiting four more years. As much as the firm wants to retain blacks, they will not offer them more money than their white counterparts and they sure as hell won't shorten the partner track.

The lack of black partners has more to do with poaching than it does underperformance by blacks. The recruitment is another issue. If you are top 20% out of Georgetown as a black (especially a black male) you are going to be able to write your own ticket. All of the firms will be dying for you, the corporations will all be dying to get you, prestigious government jobs will give you a chance.

If you are a black student, from a top school and have an adequate performance on the job...The world is yours.

Take my post as you want, but I believe this is how it is. Even if you struggle in school, you will still land a nice job (you are going to a great school). However, once at the firm, you will need to hold your own in order to stay on partner track. With that said, I fully believe it is easier as a black to become a partner. the reason is because of the dearth of blacks. The number of blacks entering law school is actually decreasing, and this makes blacks a more scarce commodity.

There is absolutely no doubt that a high performing black will have better exit options than a similarly performing white. I wouldn't worry about the relative lack of blacks in partner positions. Some of, even a lot of, this issue has to do with blacks getting poached.

One word of advice, make friends with the black partners. They will more than likely take you under the wing and tell you how to go about getting the important work, and as a result you'll become a more marketable attorney.
Last edited by indiana_student on Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

USCtrojan86
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby USCtrojan86 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:34 pm

^From everything that I've ever heard, read or seen on this, TITCR x100.

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playhero
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby playhero » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:16 am

Yeah I think indiana_student has it on the money.

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blackacre
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby blackacre » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:34 am

I think the student from Indiana is delusional.

turbogirl3535
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby turbogirl3535 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:41 pm

I would have to agree. How does one claim it is easier for a black person to make partner, and use the dearth of blacks in that position as supporting evidence? I dunno maybe its just me.

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underdawg
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby underdawg » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:46 pm

i'm undecided

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Ataraxia
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby Ataraxia » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:18 pm

turbogirl3535 wrote:I would have to agree. How does one claim it is easier for a black person to make partner, and use the dearth of blacks in that position as supporting evidence? I dunno maybe its just me.



I think his point is that, in general, firms are dying to increase diversity in the partner ranks for the sake of appearances. However, blacks keep getting lured away by public interest groups, government, or cushy in-house positions. Low supply + high demand= easier to make partner.

Meaning, IF a black person stays on partnership track for the alotted amount of time, they have a better chance of making partner than the white associates who are in the same position merely because of the low supply (and high demand) of the former and high supply (and low demand) of the latter.

S.Toppel
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby S.Toppel » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:33 pm

black + Gtown + pulse = biglaw. ridiculous but true.

mcds
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby mcds » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:40 am

Interesting. I've been wondering this is well. I'm hoping to land HYSCCN and do a V10 firm, if I can be Top 40% at the former and hold my own in the latter, I would be able to get a sweet job with more pay after a few years?

philo-sophia
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby philo-sophia » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:57 am

mcds wrote:Interesting. I've been wondering this is well. I'm hoping to land HYSCCN and do a V10 firm, if I can be Top 40% at the former and hold my own in the latter, I would be able to get a sweet job with more pay after a few years?


This is true regardless of race. If you come from a T14 and are at a V10 firm, you can be white as the Aspen snow and you will have the option of going in house, moving into investment banking, private equity etc after a few years.

EDIT: A lot of people have these high paying options but choose, instead, to go to a smaller law firm where the pay is decent but not top of market but where they will work 40-50 hours/wk and be practically guaranteed partner.

nicola.kirwan
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby nicola.kirwan » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:41 pm

What about t20?

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Kohinoor
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:14 am

What about T6? Above the median?

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Kohinoor
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby Kohinoor » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:14 pm

Thoughts?

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby OperaAttorney » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:57 pm

I don't think it's as pretty as Indiana paints it to be. The black attorneys I know don't say it's nice and easy on front street. Internal politics always plays a role in how things pan out.

zero1
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby zero1 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:20 pm

OperaAttorney wrote:I don't think it's as pretty as Indiana paints it to be. The black attorneys I know don't say it's nice and easy on front street. Internal politics always plays a role in how things pan out.



In terms of upward mobility or just getting hired period?

zero1
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby zero1 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:21 pm

Kohinoor wrote:What about T6? Above the median?



That seems fair. If you can get into the top 30% anywhere in the T.....14..15....I'd say you're good for V50.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby OperaAttorney » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:59 pm

zero1 wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:I don't think it's as pretty as Indiana paints it to be. The black attorneys I know don't say it's nice and easy on front street. Internal politics always plays a role in how things pan out.



In terms of upward mobility or just getting hired period?


My guess is upward mobility. Ask me in a few years, though. I might feel differently LOL.

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LawandOrder
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby LawandOrder » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:02 pm

I can't imagine that it's as easy as being a high performing black and then having everything handed down on a silver platter.

Euronupe
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby Euronupe » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:08 pm

I don't want to get too far off subject but does anybody know how well Howard places in biglaw? I've heard that if you graduate in the top 15% that degree can be just as useful as a degree from a top school.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby OperaAttorney » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:11 pm

Euronupe wrote:I don't want to get too far off subject but does anybody know how well Howard places in biglaw? I've heard that if you graduate in the top 15% that degree can be just as useful as a degree from a top school.


I've heard top 5%. Which makes more sense to me.

zero1
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Re: Big Law African American Hiring

Postby zero1 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:32 pm

I heard top 10%. There was one Howard alum at Wachtell as a summer associate 2 years ago or so. I think you basically have to be the cream of the crop.




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