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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:15 pm
by mak123
I am American Indian (belong to an indigenous tribe in Peru). The tribe I belong to in Peru does not keep any identification numbers so I would not be able to put a number when asked on the application, however I do have documents that prove my families connection with the tribe. Would I be considered a URM, because in the application it only asks for American Indian and not Native American.

Bi racial.. am I URM

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:58 pm
by smart-comment
. Removed personal info

Re: Bi racial.. am I URM

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:49 pm
by FairchildFLT
Yes.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:28 pm
by RCSOB657
I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".

Post removed.

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:42 pm
by grizzlybear
Post removed.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:47 pm
by bk1
grizzlybear wrote:I understand that Asians and non-Mexican Hispanics are not URM for the purposes of law school admissions, but are there any sort of minority-status related effects for employment come OCI time?
You get to participate in minority job fairs.

REMOVED

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:34 am
by rfhassan
REMOVED

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:40 pm
by TLS_42
RCSOB657 wrote:I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".

I'm actually in the same boat; My parents are Native Americans from Mexico, and I was wondering if I can still check the "NA" box on Law School apps?

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:43 pm
by sesto elemento
TLS_42 wrote:
RCSOB657 wrote:I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".

I'm actually in the same boat; My parents are Native Americans from Mexico, and I was wondering if I can still check the "NA" box on Law School apps?
No, that's only if you're American Indian and have a tribe card. You won't get a bigger boost if you check both MA and NA.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:49 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
TLS_42 wrote:
RCSOB657 wrote:I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".

I'm actually in the same boat; My parents are Native Americans from Mexico, and I was wondering if I can still check the "NA" box on Law School apps?
Check out definitions on LSAC/law school applications, but according to the US census people,
American Indian or Alaska Native” refers to a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and
South America (including Central America)
and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
The American Indian and Alaska Native population includes people who marked the “American Indian or Alaska Native” checkbox or reported entries such as Navajo, Blackfeet, Inupiat, Yup’ik, or Central American Indian groups or South American Indian groups.
So if you do identify as indigenous (as opposed to or in addition to Hispanic), I would say you can check the box.

(Obviously if you're trying to get funding from the United States government, as a tribe or tribal member, you would need to be part of a US tribe, but that's not the same as law school admissions.)

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:23 am
by RCSOB657
I agree with Nony. Also on most of the apps there are two parts to the demographics. One asks for ethnicity, and usually only has one box (Hispanic or not), the other part asks to check all 'races' (most idiotic term that is still in our lexicon) that apply, and include all the standard 'races' and room to type in tribe/id number.

Re: Bi racial.. am I URM

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:35 pm
by AlexandraHope
I would consider you black. So yes

Re: Bi racial.. am I URM

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:36 pm
by bjsesq
AlexandraHope wrote:I would consider you black. So yes
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:25 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
There's a stickied thread devoted to this topic (with which I've just merged this latest one).

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:58 am
by BillsFan9907
Mother born in Mexico and grew up there. She is white (all ancestors from Spain). She is now a US citizen. Am I (part) Mexican American? I always assumed for URM purposes I was considered white on that side of the family, and therefore white in general.

If I can otherwise report as a URM, can I still report as a URM if my father is Asian?

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:48 am
by A. Nony Mouse
Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. There are (lots and lots of) white Hispanics, as well as black Hispanics and native Hispanics. I don't see why your mother wouldn't count as Mexican and therefore you as Mexican-American.

As I understand things, there isn't a "URM" box that you check. You check whatever you identify as. That might be one race/ethnicity or multiple, assuming you genuinely identify with more than one group.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:21 am
by Oskosh
Can somebody explain to me the different boosts of URM? I'm assuming it's based on data (i.e. how many individuals from a group get high scores).

Why do Mexicans get the lowest boost? And the lowest boost is relative -- what does one mean by "lowest" boost? There may be many Mexican Americans in the country, but I don't think many are obtaining professional degrees.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:51 pm
by BeenDidThat
Oskosh wrote:Can somebody explain to me the different boosts of URM? I'm assuming it's based on data (i.e. how many individuals from a group get high scores).

Why do Mexicans get the lowest boost? And the lowest boost is relative -- what does one mean by "lowest" boost? There may be many Mexican Americans in the country, but I don't think many are obtaining professional degrees.
It turns on whether there is a lower percentage of the given ethnic group in the legal community than there is in the general population. For example, if 12% of the population of the U.S. is Ethnic Group X and 8% of the lawyer population of the U.S. is Ethnic Group X, schools will give a boost to applicants who belong to Ethnic Group X. However, this boost will be less than the boost given to applicants who belong to Ethnic Group Y, because Ethnic Group Y is 8% of the population, but only 2% of the legal community is Ethnic Group Y.

We aren't privy to the exact nature of the boosts (and I suspect schools don't quantify the boost so they can say they don't have quotas), but the key is that Mexican Americans are more like Ethnic Group X while African Americans are more like Ethnic Group Y, i.e., African Americans are *more* "underrepresented" in the legal community than Mexican Americans.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:52 pm
by cc78
This is not the easiest question to attack because some data sources aggregate MA with other Hispanics (who don't get the boost) while others break MA's out. One thing we do know, though, is that MAs as a group score higher than AAs on the LSAT:

(2011-2012 LSAC Technical Report, 08-09 data is the latest that breaks out Mexican-Americans from other Hispanics):

MA:
LSAT Mean: 147.79
SD: 8.82

AA:
LSAT Mean: 142.25
SD: 8.5

Think about this at the 165 level. That's the 99.6%ile for AAs, but only the 97.4%ile for MA. This seems insignificant, but consider that 7 times more AAs than MAs take this test.

Go up to 170...

(number of scorers at or above 170 assuming normally distributed scores):
AA: 7
MA: 11

:shock: There are more 170+ MAs in the pool even though their group is only 1/7 as large as the AA pool. So, a quick way to think about this is that MAs get less boost because they need less boost.

BeenDid is also on to something with his statement. Mexican-Americans are 10.7% of the population, while African Americans are 12.6% of the population. In 2013, 7.4% of law students were AA. I can't find specific MA information (ugh the aggregation problem!), but if the MA gap is lower than 5.2% that would also speak to less boost.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:05 pm
by jj2hawks
Hey all. Sure this common case has been proposed already in this thread but there are quite a few pages now;
I am half black (don't care for politically correct usage of AA), and half white. I identify as a black male, am I technically a URM by definition ? I would believe yes but doesn't hurt to make sure.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:12 pm
by LoganCouture
jj2hawks wrote:Hey all. Sure this common case has been proposed already in this thread but there are quite a few pages now;
I am half black (don't care for politically correct usage of AA), and half white. I identify as a black male, am I technically a URM by definition ? I would believe yes but doesn't hurt to make sure.
Yes.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:49 pm
by Oskosh
Haha wrong thread. Sorrry.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:03 pm
by ballcaps
lc39 wrote:
jj2hawks wrote:Hey all. Sure this common case has been proposed already in this thread but there are quite a few pages now;
I am half black (don't care for politically correct usage of AA), and half white. I identify as a black male, am I technically a URM by definition ? I would believe yes but doesn't hurt to make sure.
Yes.

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:18 pm
by MattM
Hello,

I am reposting since I didn't get too much feedback last time ( which is somewhat expected given the low amount of non MA/PR Hispanics applying to law school)

I was wondering if anyone either is/or knows of any Colombian applicants and know how they fared in admissions

I know TLS advice is only some categories of Hispanic Americans will get a URM boost, but a Colombian probably not (but wanted to hear directly from a Colombian applicant )

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:04 am
by PodPeople
I think this discussion shows just how ridiculous the legal education field is when it comes to race. Under these guidelines, someone who is from El Salvador or Nicaragua wouldn't be considered a URM. Under these guidelines, a woman from Afghanistan would not be considered a URM. Under these guidelines every "Asian" is lumped together. A poor immigrant from Indonesia would be in the same category as a well-off person from Japan. North Africans like Egyptians, Tunisians - in fact anyone from the MENA category - is considered not only NOT a URM - but white. Even a dark skinned Arab wouldn't be able to be considered a URM. With all the post-9/11 discrimination, there is a serious case for changing the way law schools look at race. Are they trying to create a diverse class? Or are they picking four ethnicities to focus on so they can show a boost in numbers to pretend like diversity is actually there when it is not?