Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
mak123
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:25 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby mak123 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:15 pm

I am American Indian (belong to an indigenous tribe in Peru). The tribe I belong to in Peru does not keep any identification numbers so I would not be able to put a number when asked on the application, however I do have documents that prove my families connection with the tribe. Would I be considered a URM, because in the application it only asks for American Indian and not Native American.

User avatar
smart-comment
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:13 pm

Bi racial.. am I URM

Postby smart-comment » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:58 pm

. Removed personal info
Last edited by smart-comment on Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FairchildFLT
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Bi racial.. am I URM

Postby FairchildFLT » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:49 pm

Yes.

User avatar
RCSOB657
Posts: 2269
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:50 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby RCSOB657 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:28 pm

I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".

User avatar
grizzlybear
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:52 pm

Post removed.

Postby grizzlybear » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:42 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by grizzlybear on Mon May 18, 2015 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18401
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:47 pm

grizzlybear wrote:I understand that Asians and non-Mexican Hispanics are not URM for the purposes of law school admissions, but are there any sort of minority-status related effects for employment come OCI time?

You get to participate in minority job fairs.

rfhassan
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:48 am

REMOVED

Postby rfhassan » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:34 am

REMOVED
Last edited by rfhassan on Thu May 26, 2016 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TLS_42
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby TLS_42 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:40 pm

RCSOB657 wrote:I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".


I'm actually in the same boat; My parents are Native Americans from Mexico, and I was wondering if I can still check the "NA" box on Law School apps?

User avatar
sesto elemento
Posts: 1534
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby sesto elemento » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:43 pm

TLS_42 wrote:
RCSOB657 wrote:I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".


I'm actually in the same boat; My parents are Native Americans from Mexico, and I was wondering if I can still check the "NA" box on Law School apps?


No, that's only if you're American Indian and have a tribe card. You won't get a bigger boost if you check both MA and NA.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22773
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:49 pm

TLS_42 wrote:
RCSOB657 wrote:I may be able to help, Mak123. During a lecture series related to Indigenous people's culture (Mayans specifically) now that they are in the USA. I asked some experts relating to federal identification of "Native American" and the programs associated with those cultures. Federally, it seems the government only cares if you are from one of the indigenous people actually based "in" the United States. According to them, you would be Hispanic but not a "Native American", and would have nothing to do with the various initiatives or programs for "Native Americans".


I'm actually in the same boat; My parents are Native Americans from Mexico, and I was wondering if I can still check the "NA" box on Law School apps?

Check out definitions on LSAC/law school applications, but according to the US census people,
American Indian or Alaska Native” refers to a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and
South America (including Central America)
and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
The American Indian and Alaska Native population includes people who marked the “American Indian or Alaska Native” checkbox or reported entries such as Navajo, Blackfeet, Inupiat, Yup’ik, or Central American Indian groups or South American Indian groups.

So if you do identify as indigenous (as opposed to or in addition to Hispanic), I would say you can check the box.

(Obviously if you're trying to get funding from the United States government, as a tribe or tribal member, you would need to be part of a US tribe, but that's not the same as law school admissions.)

User avatar
RCSOB657
Posts: 2269
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:50 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby RCSOB657 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:23 am

I agree with Nony. Also on most of the apps there are two parts to the demographics. One asks for ethnicity, and usually only has one box (Hispanic or not), the other part asks to check all 'races' (most idiotic term that is still in our lexicon) that apply, and include all the standard 'races' and room to type in tribe/id number.

AlexandraHope
Posts: 199
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:43 am

Re: Bi racial.. am I URM

Postby AlexandraHope » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:35 pm

I would consider you black. So yes

User avatar
bjsesq
TLS Poet Laureate
Posts: 13383
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 am

Re: Bi racial.. am I URM

Postby bjsesq » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:36 pm

AlexandraHope wrote:I would consider you black. So yes

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22773
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:25 pm

There's a stickied thread devoted to this topic (with which I've just merged this latest one).

BillsFan9907
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:28 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby BillsFan9907 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:58 am

Mother born in Mexico and grew up there. She is white (all ancestors from Spain). She is now a US citizen. Am I (part) Mexican American? I always assumed for URM purposes I was considered white on that side of the family, and therefore white in general.

If I can otherwise report as a URM, can I still report as a URM if my father is Asian?

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22773
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:48 am

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. There are (lots and lots of) white Hispanics, as well as black Hispanics and native Hispanics. I don't see why your mother wouldn't count as Mexican and therefore you as Mexican-American.

As I understand things, there isn't a "URM" box that you check. You check whatever you identify as. That might be one race/ethnicity or multiple, assuming you genuinely identify with more than one group.

User avatar
Oskosh
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Oskosh » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:21 am

Can somebody explain to me the different boosts of URM? I'm assuming it's based on data (i.e. how many individuals from a group get high scores).

Why do Mexicans get the lowest boost? And the lowest boost is relative -- what does one mean by "lowest" boost? There may be many Mexican Americans in the country, but I don't think many are obtaining professional degrees.

BeenDidThat
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby BeenDidThat » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:51 pm

Oskosh wrote:Can somebody explain to me the different boosts of URM? I'm assuming it's based on data (i.e. how many individuals from a group get high scores).

Why do Mexicans get the lowest boost? And the lowest boost is relative -- what does one mean by "lowest" boost? There may be many Mexican Americans in the country, but I don't think many are obtaining professional degrees.


It turns on whether there is a lower percentage of the given ethnic group in the legal community than there is in the general population. For example, if 12% of the population of the U.S. is Ethnic Group X and 8% of the lawyer population of the U.S. is Ethnic Group X, schools will give a boost to applicants who belong to Ethnic Group X. However, this boost will be less than the boost given to applicants who belong to Ethnic Group Y, because Ethnic Group Y is 8% of the population, but only 2% of the legal community is Ethnic Group Y.

We aren't privy to the exact nature of the boosts (and I suspect schools don't quantify the boost so they can say they don't have quotas), but the key is that Mexican Americans are more like Ethnic Group X while African Americans are more like Ethnic Group Y, i.e., African Americans are *more* "underrepresented" in the legal community than Mexican Americans.

User avatar
cc78
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:00 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby cc78 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:52 pm

This is not the easiest question to attack because some data sources aggregate MA with other Hispanics (who don't get the boost) while others break MA's out. One thing we do know, though, is that MAs as a group score higher than AAs on the LSAT:

(2011-2012 LSAC Technical Report, 08-09 data is the latest that breaks out Mexican-Americans from other Hispanics):

MA:
LSAT Mean: 147.79
SD: 8.82

AA:
LSAT Mean: 142.25
SD: 8.5

Think about this at the 165 level. That's the 99.6%ile for AAs, but only the 97.4%ile for MA. This seems insignificant, but consider that 7 times more AAs than MAs take this test.

Go up to 170...

(number of scorers at or above 170 assuming normally distributed scores):
AA: 7
MA: 11

:shock: There are more 170+ MAs in the pool even though their group is only 1/7 as large as the AA pool. So, a quick way to think about this is that MAs get less boost because they need less boost.

BeenDid is also on to something with his statement. Mexican-Americans are 10.7% of the population, while African Americans are 12.6% of the population. In 2013, 7.4% of law students were AA. I can't find specific MA information (ugh the aggregation problem!), but if the MA gap is lower than 5.2% that would also speak to less boost.

User avatar
jj2hawks
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby jj2hawks » Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:05 pm

Hey all. Sure this common case has been proposed already in this thread but there are quite a few pages now;
I am half black (don't care for politically correct usage of AA), and half white. I identify as a black male, am I technically a URM by definition ? I would believe yes but doesn't hurt to make sure.

User avatar
LoganCouture
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:48 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby LoganCouture » Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:12 pm

jj2hawks wrote:Hey all. Sure this common case has been proposed already in this thread but there are quite a few pages now;
I am half black (don't care for politically correct usage of AA), and half white. I identify as a black male, am I technically a URM by definition ? I would believe yes but doesn't hurt to make sure.


Yes.

User avatar
Oskosh
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Oskosh » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:49 pm

Haha wrong thread. Sorrry.

User avatar
ballcaps
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:20 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:03 pm

lc39 wrote:
jj2hawks wrote:Hey all. Sure this common case has been proposed already in this thread but there are quite a few pages now;
I am half black (don't care for politically correct usage of AA), and half white. I identify as a black male, am I technically a URM by definition ? I would believe yes but doesn't hurt to make sure.


Yes.

MattM
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:05 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby MattM » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:18 pm

Hello,

I am reposting since I didn't get too much feedback last time ( which is somewhat expected given the low amount of non MA/PR Hispanics applying to law school)

I was wondering if anyone either is/or knows of any Colombian applicants and know how they fared in admissions

I know TLS advice is only some categories of Hispanic Americans will get a URM boost, but a Colombian probably not (but wanted to hear directly from a Colombian applicant )

PodPeople
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:41 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby PodPeople » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:04 am

I think this discussion shows just how ridiculous the legal education field is when it comes to race. Under these guidelines, someone who is from El Salvador or Nicaragua wouldn't be considered a URM. Under these guidelines, a woman from Afghanistan would not be considered a URM. Under these guidelines every "Asian" is lumped together. A poor immigrant from Indonesia would be in the same category as a well-off person from Japan. North Africans like Egyptians, Tunisians - in fact anyone from the MENA category - is considered not only NOT a URM - but white. Even a dark skinned Arab wouldn't be able to be considered a URM. With all the post-9/11 discrimination, there is a serious case for changing the way law schools look at race. Are they trying to create a diverse class? Or are they picking four ethnicities to focus on so they can show a boost in numbers to pretend like diversity is actually there when it is not?




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest