Top Law Schools

pp5150 wrote:Sooooooo im wondering if i could be considered as a urm. I was born here, in california, but both my parents were born in east africa. My last name is Patel, which is clearly indian, but both sides of my family have been in kenya and Uganda for 5 generations.
what do you guys think?

you are not african-american, lol.

eta: may make an interesting diversity statement topic, tho.

BlueLotus wrote:

pp5150 wrote:Sooooooo im wondering if i could be considered as a urm. I was born here, in california, but both my parents were born in east africa. My last name is Patel, which is clearly indian, but both sides of my family have been in kenya and Uganda for 5 generations.
what do you guys think?

you are not african-american, lol.

eta: may make an interesting diversity statement topic, tho.

Actually he is African-American given a plain reading of the words. 1st generation to be exact.

I'm assuming you think he's not African-American since he's not a descendent of the african americans who were here during slavery, civil rights era, etc. But growing up, wouldn't his experiences be more in line with an xyz generation african-american than an African immigrant who just came to the U.S. for school?

On second thought, I don't think your African American, you're ethnically Indian right?

yup, he is african american, not black, but he is def african american, like literally. and lsac in the crs portion says african american right? and not black, so whats wrong with him choosing african american? just do that, u will get that boost, u need any help u can get, and explain your story in the ds tho.

I'm pretty sure LSAC, like the census and the DOE, defines "African-American" as "having origins in any of the black peoples of Africa." So while yes, you are African-American, if you're ethnically Indian I doubt it's what LSAC means by the term. I'm not sure if every law school gives a definition of the term in their application, so sure, maybe you can make the above argument for specific schools. But there are a lot of US institutions that define the term racially.

Yeah, if you're ethnically Indian, were born in America, and your family's only connection to Africa was geographic, I don't think there's any way to parlay that into calling yourself "African American" for admissions purposes with a straight face.

Nony is correct. To quote myself from a previous thread:

DoE Definition wrote:African American: A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.

bk1 wrote:The DoE definition is correct. The reason that it is like this is that at some point in American history, Americans started to use a term that related strictly to geography (African-American) as a substitute for race. It is a euphemism for black that happens to use a geographical term so the definition stems from the term it replaces, not from the literal meaning of the words that constitute the euphemism. So you'll hear Americans sometimes call black people from other countries "African-Americans" because the term is wholly synonymous with black to them even though black people from other countries aren't actually American.

Post removed.

theugg wrote:Pretty specific question so I thought I'd post here:
I am 1/4th Native American, 3/4th white. Dad is biracial. I have a certificate of Indian blood which is proof of my 1/4th NA status. However, I am not an official member of the tribe, as they have closed membership applications for the time being.

Will I still qualify as a URM?

This is going to be slightly subjective, do you actively participate in tribal activities? Every application through LSAC I have seen has room to input tribal affiliation AND membership number. Please be honest to yourself about this.

most LS apps wrote:3. Tribal Affiliation
Tribal affiliation or village name_____________________
Enrollment number (enrolled members only) _________________

I would 'think' by what you said, yes you would qualify for LSAC purposes as NA, but for good or bad educational institutes want you to 'act like a NA' to be treated as one, and that's wrong.

Why is wrong for schools to look for someone who has an actual cultural identity as Native American?

Post removed.

I am not saying I agree with the practice, all I am saying is I have seen anecdotal evidence of schools wanting their NA to 'act like NA' (culturally) in order to be identified as such. In the applications I have seen were the boxes I listed above for Tribal Village or Affiliation and a box for registration number (if you have one). You say you don't have a number, and you may or may not have an affiliation (which was not your doing), but you could get one. Your father being half NA makes your 1/4 as you said. I am not quite sure who issued your certificate, but that certainly would be helpful if any school tried to question you about it. As far as I understand things, schools have always been skeptical of people claiming NA, thus their reasoning for wanting proof. You will notice, no application asks for 'proof' or more information for those self-coding as Hispanic do you?

I would personally believe your background would be enough to check NA as one of your ethnicities, even if it isn't your culture.

My paternal grandmother is 1st generation Portuguese-American warbride, having immigrated as a little girl and meeting my paternal grandfather in WW2. My Maternal Grandmother was 1/4 NA. I'm 1/4 Portuguese, 1/8th Cherokee, and the rest of various other European descent. I do not consider myself NA for legal or any other purpose. Nor am I Hispanic because I do not fall under this description.

US Dept of Education wrote:A Hispanic or Latino person is of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term "Spanish origin" can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."

Whereas if my grandmother came from Spain, I would would qualify. Does this help?

I know my lower statement has little to do with your specifics, I was just offering that as an example of self-identification and culture vs just 'blood'. I'm just going to confuse myself if I keep researching this. From the Pew Research Center. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2009/05/28/whos-hispanic/

theugg wrote:

RCSOB657 wrote:
This is going to be slightly subjective, do you actively participate in tribal activities? Every application through LSAC I have seen has room to input tribal affiliation AND membership number. Please be honest to yourself about this.

First and foremost: no, I don't identify culturally as Native American. Just to get that out of the way. A lot of it is just the locational fact that my tribe is mostly concentrated in North Carolina and I don't live there. Additionally, my grandmother discouraged my father from identifying as NA and from participating in the tribe because of the racism that would result.

That being said, I'm not going to pretend to identify as NA culturally.

However, I don't really understand your point about membership number being such an important component of being a URM. The only reason why I'm not a member of the tribe at present is that my father forgot to register me at birth. Assuming he had registered me, I would be in exactly the same cultural situation as I am now.

Basically, I understand why schools would consider the cultural aspect of being NA important. I'm just not so sure that being a registered member automatically gives you that.

I think the point of giving URMs a boost is that they identify with that culture and are bringing that diversity to the classroom... So you might have just answered your own question.

Another URM question for you guys. My dad is a white American and my mom is a dark skinned Mexican born and raised in Mexico. I look 100% white tho (not that it matters). I relate to both sides of my family I would say.

MGH1989 wrote:Another URM question for you guys. My dad is a white American and my mom is a dark skinned Mexican born and raised in Mexico. I look 100% white tho (not that it matters). I relate to both sides of my family I would say.

Where is the question?

sesto elemento wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:Another URM question for you guys. My dad is a white American and my mom is a dark skinned Mexican born and raised in Mexico. I look 100% white tho (not that it matters). I relate to both sides of my family I would say.

Where is the question?

See thread title

MGH1989 wrote:

sesto elemento wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:Another URM question for you guys. My dad is a white American and my mom is a dark skinned Mexican born and raised in Mexico. I look 100% white tho (not that it matters). I relate to both sides of my family I would say.

Where is the question?

See thread title

So you're half MA, half white. Pretty clear cut

alloverthat wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:

sesto elemento wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:Another URM question for you guys. My dad is a white American and my mom is a dark skinned Mexican born and raised in Mexico. I look 100% white tho (not that it matters). I relate to both sides of my family I would say.

Where is the question?

See thread title

So you're half MA, half white. Pretty clear cut

If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

bk1 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

please enlighten me judge dredd...

MGH1989 wrote:

bk1 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

please enlighten me judge dredd...

Do YOU identify as a Mexican? Do you have Mexican culture? Do you speak Spanish? Or do you identify as white?

MGH1989 wrote:

bk1 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

please enlighten me judge dredd...

LSAC asks urm status based on genotype not phenotype.

sesto elemento wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:

bk1 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

please enlighten me judge dredd...

LSAC asks urm status based on genotype not phenotype.

Lol! I think schools actually prefer it the other way around.

luuma wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:

bk1 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

please enlighten me judge dredd...

Do YOU identify as a Mexican? Do you have Mexican culture? Do you speak Spanish? Or do you identify as white?

"identify as white"

there are white Mexicans, they aren't mutually exclusive.

I've filled out white, Mexican (hispanic,latino,etc), and both. Yes, I have Mexican and American culture in my household. Spanish was my first language. I no longer speak it however.

MGH1989 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:

bk1 wrote:

MGH1989 wrote:If it was I wouldn't be posting ITT.

It's clear cut whether you're unsure or not.

please enlighten me judge dredd...

"identify as white"

there are white Mexicans, they aren't mutually exclusive.

I've filled out white, Mexican (hispanic,latino,etc), and both. Yes, I have Mexican and American culture in my household. Spanish was my first language. I no longer speak it however.

I never said they were mutually exclusive, I was asking you if you separated the two and only identified with one (White). However, you've answered your own question, since on top of having Mexican descent, you also identify with the culture. You can continue checking both... My two cents.

Gotcha, thanks.