Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
User avatar
Varys
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:28 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Varys » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:19 pm

subtle wrote:
Varys wrote:
subtle wrote:This is a personal question. Don't worry about what other people think/how they see you. If you *feel* Puerto Rican, you are; you certainly have the right to claim it. If you feel it would be dishonest, then it is.


Other than being dishonest, what is to stop people from just checking one of the URM boxes? Do law schools or the ABA look into it to see that you really are the race you claim? I would think there must be some sort of enforcement of the policy, but then again I'd also like to think at this point most people will just be honest.



I honestly don't know. People have said that it could come back to bite you in the ass in terms of C&F on the bar, but I honestly don't know what there is to stop people. I imagine that the fear alone of having problems is enough to keep most people from checking a box that they can't rightfully claim.


People don't want to pull an "Elizabeth Warren?" Ha! URM humor. But in all seriousness, I'm part Native American but I'm not sure about the kind of documentation that I should have ready. At the same time, I know there is a boost to be had, but I really REALLY hate the idea that I should even get a boost when the time comes to apply just because I happened to be born in the right family. I feel torn on the issue.

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:55 pm

Hey all was wondering if someone could help me out. If my grandma was born in Mexico would that make me a URM? I never really thought about it till someone mentioned it to me.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:06 am

Rlabo wrote:Hey all was wondering if someone could help me out. If my grandma was born in Mexico would that make me a URM? I never really thought about it till someone mentioned it to me.


Was she born in Mexico or was she Mexican?

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:19 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:Hey all was wondering if someone could help me out. If my grandma was born in Mexico would that make me a URM? I never really thought about it till someone mentioned it to me.


Was she born in Mexico or was she Mexican?


She was born in Mexico and lived there until she got married which was about when she was 20. She is definitely Mexican culturally.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:22 am

Rlabo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:Hey all was wondering if someone could help me out. If my grandma was born in Mexico would that make me a URM? I never really thought about it till someone mentioned it to me.


Was she born in Mexico or was she Mexican?


She was born in Mexico and lived there until she got married which was about when she was 20. She is definitely Mexican culturally.


I'll take that as a no.

No, you are not a URM unless your grandmother is ethnically Mexican, which it seems she is not.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby hephaestus » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:22 am

Rlabo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:Hey all was wondering if someone could help me out. If my grandma was born in Mexico would that make me a URM? I never really thought about it till someone mentioned it to me.


Was she born in Mexico or was she Mexican?


She was born in Mexico and lived there until she got married which was about when she was 20. She is definitely Mexican culturally.

That doesn't count. You would need to be ethnically Mexican.

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:25 am

ImNoScar wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:Hey all was wondering if someone could help me out. If my grandma was born in Mexico would that make me a URM? I never really thought about it till someone mentioned it to me.


Was she born in Mexico or was she Mexican?


She was born in Mexico and lived there until she got married which was about when she was 20. She is definitely Mexican culturally.

That doesn't count. You would need to be ethnically Mexican.


I feel like I'm missing something here, what makes someone Mexican other than being a citizen of Mexico?

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:28 am

Rlabo wrote:I feel like I'm missing something here, what makes someone Mexican other than being a citizen of Mexico?


In case you're not kidding, there is a clear distinction between ethnicity and citizenship.

If I was born and raised in China, then move to France for a job and gain citizenship, would it, later on in my life, be appropriate to tell people I am French?

C&F will frown heavily if you go this route.

Also, it defeats the purpose of AA.

Don't do this.

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:34 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:I feel like I'm missing something here, what makes someone Mexican other than being a citizen of Mexico?


In case you're not kidding, there is a clear distinction between ethnicity and citizenship.

If I was born and raised in China, then move to France for a job and gain citizenship, would it, later on in my life, be appropriate to tell people I am French?

C&F will frown heavily if you go this route.

Also, it defeats the purpose of AA.

Don't do this.


She was born and raised in Mexico and seriously Mexican, in your analogy shes saying shes Chinese not french. Her parents were middle eastern decent and so were my great parents from my other side so Ive always said I'm middle eastern, but at the same time i've also always said that i'm 1/4th mexican because of my grandma, i just didn't think that was smtn to put down under a minority as my base is really middle eastern. I guess to bring this back to ur analogy wold be to say that person who moved from china to france, would her grandkids be considered Chinese?

vzapana
Posts: 530
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:54 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby vzapana » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:36 am

I feel like I read somewhere that you need to be at least half of a race to be considered. Perhaps its a quarter? Someone should be able to shed light on this.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:38 am

Rlabo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:I feel like I'm missing something here, what makes someone Mexican other than being a citizen of Mexico?


In case you're not kidding, there is a clear distinction between ethnicity and citizenship.

If I was born and raised in China, then move to France for a job and gain citizenship, would it, later on in my life, be appropriate to tell people I am French?

C&F will frown heavily if you go this route.

Also, it defeats the purpose of AA.

Don't do this.


She was born and raised in Mexico and seriously Mexican, in your analogy shes saying shes Chinese not french. Her parents were middle eastern decent and so were my great parents from my other side so Ive always said I'm middle eastern, but at the same time i've also always said that i'm 1/4th mexican because of my grandma, i just didn't think that was smtn to put down under a minority as my base is really middle eastern. I guess to bring this back to ur analogy wold be to say that person who moved from china to france, would her grandkids be considered Chinese?


Now I'm confused.

So Mitt Romney's father is Caucasian but was born in Mexico and lived there for a while. Is that the case with your grandmother?

Or is she of Mexican ethnic decent?

Has to be one of the two.

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:43 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:I feel like I'm missing something here, what makes someone Mexican other than being a citizen of Mexico?


In case you're not kidding, there is a clear distinction between ethnicity and citizenship.

If I was born and raised in China, then move to France for a job and gain citizenship, would it, later on in my life, be appropriate to tell people I am French?

C&F will frown heavily if you go this route.

Also, it defeats the purpose of AA.

Don't do this.


She was born and raised in Mexico and seriously Mexican, in your analogy shes saying shes Chinese not french. Her parents were middle eastern decent and so were my great parents from my other side so Ive always said I'm middle eastern, but at the same time i've also always said that i'm 1/4th mexican because of my grandma, i just didn't think that was smtn to put down under a minority as my base is really middle eastern. I guess to bring this back to ur analogy wold be to say that person who moved from china to france, would her grandkids be considered Chinese?


Now I'm confused.

So Mitt Romney's father is Caucasian but was born in Mexico and lived there for a while. Is that the case with your grandmother?

Or is she of Mexican ethnic decent?

Has to be one of the two.


She is Mexican, but my other 3 grandparents were born in the states as were my parents, and all of my great grandparent were born in the middle east. For that reason Ive always associated primarily with being middle eastern while saying I'm 1/4th Mexican. She is extremely ethnically Mexican though as it is her heritage, and therefor partly mine.

071816
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 071816 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:44 am

Mexican and caucasian aren't mutually exclusive. Hope that helps, kids.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:45 am

Rlabo wrote:She is Mexican, but my other 3 grandparents were born in the states as were my parents, and all of my great grandparent were born in the middle east. For that reason Ive always associated primarily with being middle eastern while saying I'm 1/4th Mexican. She is extremely ethnically Mexican though as it is her heritage, and therefor partly mine.


You're not being very clear about this.

Is your grandmother's family and lineage from Mexico and Mexican ethnically?

For example, what was her maiden name? (don't post it, just ways to know what's up)

Honestly dude, if you have to stretch it this far, you're probably not a URM.

Maybe just don't try to snag this tiny bit of advantage by being something you're not.

User avatar
HankBashir
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:01 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby HankBashir » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:47 am

The thing with Mexico, is that you have a "baseline" Mexican population descended from the Indigenous people, Spaniards and Africans from the colonial period and then you have descendants from more recent immigrants (whom most people would consider "Mexican" (see: Salma Hayek, Carlos Slim Helú, or Vicente Fox Quesada).

In any case, I would just go with the one you identify with most, seeing as you seem to identify more with your Middle Eastern roots. I'm Native American enough to join my grandmother's tribe, but I never mark Native American because I have no real connection to NA heritage and I don't identify with it at all.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22822
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:49 am

Isn't the issue here that the grandmother is Mexican but not Hispanic? As I understand it, the ethnic requirement for URM is Hispanic. However, given the vagaries of US legal doctrine, (arguably) only Hispanics of Mexican and Puerto Rican descent get the boost. The grandmother at issue here isn't Hispanic, even if she's Mexican. You can be a white Mexican or a black Mexican, yes?

(Apologies if I've got any of this wrong.)

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:52 am

Just to be clear I've already submitted all my applications and did not put a URM status as I didn't think it was strong enough connection (I thought ur parents had to be born there so didnt look into it too much), I'm trying to figure out if I should have based on my background.

User avatar
Grazzhoppa
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:00 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Grazzhoppa » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:13 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
Rlabo wrote:She is Mexican, but my other 3 grandparents were born in the states as were my parents, and all of my great grandparent were born in the middle east. For that reason Ive always associated primarily with being middle eastern while saying I'm 1/4th Mexican. She is extremely ethnically Mexican though as it is her heritage, and therefor partly mine.


You're not being very clear about this.

Is your grandmother's family and lineage from Mexico and Mexican ethnically?

For example, what was her maiden name? (don't post it, just ways to know what's up)

Honestly dude, if you have to stretch it this far, you're probably not a URM.

Maybe just don't try to snag this tiny bit of advantage by being something you're not.


joke?

User avatar
Grazzhoppa
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:00 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Grazzhoppa » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:16 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Isn't the issue here that the grandmother is Mexican but not Hispanic? As I understand it, the ethnic requirement for URM is Hispanic. However, given the vagaries of US legal doctrine, (arguably) only Hispanics of Mexican and Puerto Rican descent get the boost. The grandmother at issue here isn't Hispanic, even if she's Mexican. You can be a white Mexican or a black Mexican, yes?

(Apologies if I've got any of this wrong.)


You can be Hispanic and white. Hispanic is not a race. Being white doesn't make anyone less Hispanic or Mexican.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22822
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:22 am

Grazzhoppa wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Isn't the issue here that the grandmother is Mexican but not Hispanic? As I understand it, the ethnic requirement for URM is Hispanic. However, given the vagaries of US legal doctrine, (arguably) only Hispanics of Mexican and Puerto Rican descent get the boost. The grandmother at issue here isn't Hispanic, even if she's Mexican. You can be a white Mexican or a black Mexican, yes?

(Apologies if I've got any of this wrong.)


You can be Hispanic and white. Hispanic is not a race. Being white doesn't make anyone less Hispanic or Mexican.

You're right, I completely fumbled that. Sorry.

subtle
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:43 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby subtle » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:35 am

I'm really surprised by the reasoning of some posters with this latest inquiry. I recognize that the OP has already submitted his/her apps and, therefore, this is a moot point, but, that said, I would say that the OP is Mexican. Whether or not s/he should have marked it is a different question. I'm of the opinion that you should mark what you honestly feel. Who is anyone else to police your identity? But the idea that the OPs great-grandparents are of Middle Eastern descent and therefore his grandmother cannot be Mexican, I think, is ludicrous. I would say that being born in a country, being raised in its cultures and traditions (even if they are supplemented by or secondary to other cultural traditions/values) makes you whatever that country is (i.e. in this case, Mexican). If that weren't the case, would/should those of you whose parents were born in Latin America but you were born here and raised in American culture and with American values (even if they were instilled in you by society and not your parents) consider yourselves American?

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:48 am

subtle wrote:I'm really surprised by the reasoning of some posters with this latest inquiry. I recognize that the OP has already submitted his/her apps and, therefore, this is a moot point, but, that said, I would say that the OP is Mexican. Whether or not s/he should have marked it is a different question. I'm of the opinion that you should mark what you honestly feel. Who is anyone else to police your identity? But the idea that the OPs great-grandparents are of Middle Eastern descent and therefore his grandmother cannot be Mexican, I think, is ludicrous. I would say that being born in a country, being raised in its cultures and traditions (even if they are supplemented by or secondary to other cultural traditions/values) makes you whatever that country is (i.e. in this case, Mexican). If that weren't the case, would/should those of you whose parents were born in Latin America but you were born here and raised in American culture and with American values (even if they were instilled in you by society and not your parents) consider yourselves American?


I agree with this but was unsure of the ethics involved in something which is why I made the post. As said I've always associated with my middle eastern background as my primary background, but with that hint of Mexican as well (usually saying that I'm a quarter). At the time it didn't seem like something to even consider because 3/4th of me is not, but now I'm thinking maybe I didn't give the 1/4 the weight that it may have deserved. It just did not occur to me that that may constitute URM. Would you say It's ethically moral for me to claim that?

subtle
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:43 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby subtle » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:52 am

Rlabo wrote:
subtle wrote:I'm really surprised by the reasoning of some posters with this latest inquiry. I recognize that the OP has already submitted his/her apps and, therefore, this is a moot point, but, that said, I would say that the OP is Mexican. Whether or not s/he should have marked it is a different question. I'm of the opinion that you should mark what you honestly feel. Who is anyone else to police your identity? But the idea that the OPs great-grandparents are of Middle Eastern descent and therefore his grandmother cannot be Mexican, I think, is ludicrous. I would say that being born in a country, being raised in its cultures and traditions (even if they are supplemented by or secondary to other cultural traditions/values) makes you whatever that country is (i.e. in this case, Mexican). If that weren't the case, would/should those of you whose parents were born in Latin America but you were born here and raised in American culture and with American values (even if they were instilled in you by society and not your parents) consider yourselves American?


I agree with this but was unsure of the ethics involved in something which is why I made the post. As said I've always associated with my middle eastern background as my primary background, but with that hint of Mexican as well (usually saying that I'm a quarter). At the time it didn't seem like something to even consider because 3/4th of me is not, but now I'm thinking maybe I didn't give the 1/4 the weight that it may have deserved. It just did not occur to me that that may constitute URM. Would you say It's ethically moral for me to claim that?


No.

If you have doubts as to its ethicality, then it's not for you. If you had no doubts, I would say that it certainly would be. I'm sort of like you. I have great-grandparents who were from Venezuela, and I go back and forth as to whether I consider myself Hispanic or not. Primarily, I consider myself black/West Indian, but from time to time, I do think of myself as Hispanic (because of my great-grandparents, my mother's last name, and my love of the culture), but I'm unsure as to how legitimate the claim is. Is it true? Yes. Should I be claiming it? I don't know. I can't remember what I said on my applications, but I'm sure I've flipped flopped on that decision about a million times since then. (In my case, however, in terms of law school admission, it's sort of a moot point, what with my being black.)

User avatar
Rlabo
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Rlabo » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:58 am

subtle wrote:
Rlabo wrote:
subtle wrote:I'm really surprised by the reasoning of some posters with this latest inquiry. I recognize that the OP has already submitted his/her apps and, therefore, this is a moot point, but, that said, I would say that the OP is Mexican. Whether or not s/he should have marked it is a different question. I'm of the opinion that you should mark what you honestly feel. Who is anyone else to police your identity? But the idea that the OPs great-grandparents are of Middle Eastern descent and therefore his grandmother cannot be Mexican, I think, is ludicrous. I would say that being born in a country, being raised in its cultures and traditions (even if they are supplemented by or secondary to other cultural traditions/values) makes you whatever that country is (i.e. in this case, Mexican). If that weren't the case, would/should those of you whose parents were born in Latin America but you were born here and raised in American culture and with American values (even if they were instilled in you by society and not your parents) consider yourselves American?


I agree with this but was unsure of the ethics involved in something which is why I made the post. As said I've always associated with my middle eastern background as my primary background, but with that hint of Mexican as well (usually saying that I'm a quarter). At the time it didn't seem like something to even consider because 3/4th of me is not, but now I'm thinking maybe I didn't give the 1/4 the weight that it may have deserved. It just did not occur to me that that may constitute URM. Would you say It's ethically moral for me to claim that?


No.

If you have doubts as to its ethicality, then it's not for you. If you had no doubts, I would say that it certainly would be. I'm sort of like you. I have great-grandparents who were from Venezuela, and I go back and forth as to whether I consider myself Hispanic or not. Primarily, I consider myself black/West Indian, but from time to time, I do think of myself as Hispanic (because of my great-grandparents, my mother's last name, and my love of the culture), but I'm unsure as to how legitimate the claim is. Is it true? Yes. Should I be claiming it? I don't know. I can't remember what I said on my applications, but I'm sure I've flipped flopped on that decision about a million times since then. (In my case, however, in terms of law school admission, it's sort of a moot point, what with my being black.)


My doubts about the ethicality stem more from the fact that it wasn't something I stated from the beginning. I'm currently wl at 6 t14 schools and would love to bring this to their attention, but it feels weird to me to do tht now siceit wasnt something I did when initially applying, (like what am i supposed to say? BTW I'm a URM but was unclear on what that term actually meant??) . If I was going to first apply tomorrow, knowing what I now know I would probably check the URM box with a guilt-free conscious but since I didn't check it originally it feels almost disingenuous to say anything.

User avatar
HankBashir
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:01 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby HankBashir » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:11 am

I'm pretty sure retroactively claiming URM status would not help your application at all. Maybe even hurt it a bit if they feel like you're trying to game the system.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests