Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
Lear22
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Lear22 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:18 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lear22 wrote:Thank you for the info. So my next question is if I identify myself as a URM and get accepted (partly) because of that, and then I get to orientation and the color of my skin is white, how will that go from there? will I be asked to explain why I marked myself as a URM? Also - since this is something that I am now beginning to discover about my family heritage, I marked myself as 'white' in the former LSAT I took. Does that matter at all? Again, in the way that that I would need to explain to schools why I marked myself as white in June but as a non-white in Oct (All this is simply because of my new found understanding of how URM work and also discussions I had with my family about that).

thanks you for all your help with this!


This is not complicated at all. Just honestly report your race/ethnicity and there will be no issues. Period.


thank you for this. My last question will be this: Does it matter that my family from both sides are not from the US and never lived here? (I immigrated to the US as an adult) thank you again!

User avatar
Phlash58
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Phlash58 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:48 pm

I'll lay it down for you, Bro. You don't consider yourself black, you have not experienced what it means to be black, and YOU SHOULD NOT put that you are black. You do not get to check off "URM". You check off a race, and if that race is a URM then you get URM status. The fact that you are trying to look for a way to put that you are something that you in fact are not, makes me hope you will reconsider law school altogether.

Lying or misrepresenting/stretching the truth to gain an advantage in the admissions process can later come back and hamper your ability to practice law. Moreover ( and more importantly), you are possibly taking the spot of a TRUE URM by misleading admissions committees. You put on your LSAT that you are white in the past, and then change it for law school applications AND look white. . . not going to look good.

The purpose of the boost to URMs is to give the class a diverse perspective while broadening the types of lawyers the law schools are producing. You are raping that purpose if you check the box as black.

Lear22 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Lear22 wrote:I am unsure to how do schools inquire on the whole URM notion when it's not cut throat as it is when someone is AA by color of skin and direct heritage.


Schools do not inquire on the "URM notion." You mark your race/ethnicity and then schools choose to do something or not based on that. It's not cutthroat, it's just honesty in self-reporting your race/ethnicity.


Thank you for the info. So my next question is if I identify myself as a URM and get accepted (partly) because of that, and then I get to orientation and the color of my skin is white, how will that go from there? will I be asked to explain why I marked myself as a URM? Also - since this is something that I am now beginning to discover about my family heritage, I marked myself as 'white' in the former LSAT I took. Does that matter at all? Again, in the way that that I would need to explain to schools why I marked myself as white in June but as a non-white in Oct (All this is simply because of my new found understanding of how URM work and also discussions I had with my family about that).

thanks you for all your help with this!

wk1982
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby wk1982 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:51 pm

Phlash58 wrote:I'll lay it down for you, Bro. You don't consider yourself black, you have not experienced what it means to be black, and YOU SHOULD NOT put that you are black. You do not get to check off "URM". You check off a race, and if that race is a URM then you get URM status. The fact that you are trying to look for a way to put that you are something that you in fact are not, makes me hope you will reconsider law school altogether.

Lying or misrepresenting/stretching the truth to gain an advantage in the admissions process can later come back and hamper your ability to practice law. Moreover ( and more importantly), you are possibly taking the spot of a TRUE URM by misleading admissions committees. You put on your LSAT that you are white in the past, and then change it for law school applications AND look white. . . not going to look good.

The purpose of the boost to URMs is to give the class a diverse perspective while broadening the types of lawyers the law schools are producing. You are raping that purpose if you check the box as black.

Lear22 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Lear22 wrote:I am unsure to how do schools inquire on the whole URM notion when it's not cut throat as it is when someone is AA by color of skin and direct heritage.


Schools do not inquire on the "URM notion." You mark your race/ethnicity and then schools choose to do something or not based on that. It's not cutthroat, it's just honesty in self-reporting your race/ethnicity.


Thank you for the info. So my next question is if I identify myself as a URM and get accepted (partly) because of that, and then I get to orientation and the color of my skin is white, how will that go from there? will I be asked to explain why I marked myself as a URM? Also - since this is something that I am now beginning to discover about my family heritage, I marked myself as 'white' in the former LSAT I took. Does that matter at all? Again, in the way that that I would need to explain to schools why I marked myself as white in June but as a non-white in Oct (All this is simply because of my new found understanding of how URM work and also discussions I had with my family about that).

thanks you for all your help with this!


would that be legitimate rape?

USER WAS TEMPORARILY BANNED FOR THIS POST.

KNOCK IT OFF.

- MGMT

User avatar
20121109
Posts: 2149
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 20121109 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:43 pm

wk1982 wrote:
would that be legitimate rape?



No words....

Image

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Nova » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:13 am

Lear22 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Lear22 wrote:Thank you for the info. So my next question is if I identify myself as a URM and get accepted (partly) because of that, and then I get to orientation and the color of my skin is white, how will that go from there? will I be asked to explain why I marked myself as a URM? Also - since this is something that I am now beginning to discover about my family heritage, I marked myself as 'white' in the former LSAT I took. Does that matter at all? Again, in the way that that I would need to explain to schools why I marked myself as white in June but as a non-white in Oct (All this is simply because of my new found understanding of how URM work and also discussions I had with my family about that).

thanks you for all your help with this!


This is not complicated at all. Just honestly report your race/ethnicity and there will be no issues. Period.


thank you for this. My last question will be this: Does it matter that my family from both sides are not from the US and never lived here? (I immigrated to the US as an adult) thank you again!


Write about it in your PS/DS if you want. No bump though.

User avatar
Drake014
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Drake014 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:58 pm

Phlash58 wrote:I'll lay it down for you, Bro. You don't consider yourself black, you have not experienced what it means to be black, and YOU SHOULD NOT put that you are black. You do not get to check off "URM". You check off a race, and if that race is a URM then you get URM status. The fact that you are trying to look for a way to put that you are something that you in fact are not, makes me hope you will reconsider law school altogether.

Lying or misrepresenting/stretching the truth to gain an advantage in the admissions process can later come back and hamper your ability to practice law. Moreover ( and more importantly), you are possibly taking the spot of a TRUE URM by misleading admissions committees. You put on your LSAT that you are white in the past, and then change it for law school applications AND look white. . . not going to look good.

The purpose of the boost to URMs is to give the class a diverse perspective while broadening the types of lawyers the law schools are producing. You are raping that purpose if you check the box as black.


Well said. However, I think that most people are most concerned about whether they will get caught. I can't find an article on it now, but years ago someone applied to a T14 as Native American and was accepted. Later, it was discovered that they were not Native American and had intentionally lied on their application. They were kicked out of school for making a false statement on their application (not for being white). If memory serves correctly, they were caught because they were stupid enough to tell a friend what they did.

If you have some very tenuous 1/16 connection to being a URM that you've never claimed before but decide to claim now, you could probably use that to abuse the system. I doubt a school could kick someone out for not being URM enough. However, someone on the admission's committee might be savvy enough to figure out what you're doing and not accept you to begin with. If you straight out lie about being a URM or bend the rules so much that no one will believe that you honestly thought you qualified as a URM (like if Romney claimed he was Mexican because his white father was born there), then you could get kicked out for making a false statement on your application or you might not be accepted to the bar after graduation.

lnh819
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:52 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby lnh819 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:27 pm

I have a really strange situation.

I was adopted at birth in a closed adoption - my parents are white and I have their German last name. When my birth father signed the forms to place me for adoption, he marked himself as Hispanic. He was adopted himself (closed adoption) and had always been told that his birth mother was Hispanic. My birth mother laughed when she heard about this - he looked completely white - but went along with it. I take after her Irish ancestry in looks - pale with light eyes.

My birth certificate says Caucasian - Non-Hispanic. My parents - not my birth parents - dealt with that paperwork and didn't feel comfortable declaring a pale baby with a German name as Hispanic simply on the basis of my birth father's untraceable claim. They registered me in school as Caucasian and I have always marked myself as such. I have no connection to Hispanic culture, don't look the part, and can't prove my bloodline in anyway.

When I took the LSAT, I did the honest thing and marked myself as Caucasian. I'm guessing that I'm stuck with that classification and can not justify marking a different box on my actual applications. I have no clue what specific country my Hispanic heritage is from which seems to be a key factor in determining URM.

I just want to make sure my instinct to stay Caucasian is correct. I don't feel that I can ethically justify anything else but as a Texas resident with a 163 LSAT and 3.57 GPA - being an URM would make the different whether I got into UT or not. It might also net me a full-ride at my first choice school, Texas Tech.

Advice? Stick with Caucasian, right?

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Nova » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:23 pm

I did the honest thing and marked myself as Caucasian.


Well there you go.

Too late to flip flop now.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:52 am

lnh819 wrote:I have a really strange situation.

I was adopted at birth in a closed adoption - my parents are white and I have their German last name. When my birth father signed the forms to place me for adoption, he marked himself as Hispanic. He was adopted himself (closed adoption) and had always been told that his birth mother was Hispanic. My birth mother laughed when she heard about this - he looked completely white - but went along with it. I take after her Irish ancestry in looks - pale with light eyes.

My birth certificate says Caucasian - Non-Hispanic. My parents - not my birth parents - dealt with that paperwork and didn't feel comfortable declaring a pale baby with a German name as Hispanic simply on the basis of my birth father's untraceable claim. They registered me in school as Caucasian and I have always marked myself as such. I have no connection to Hispanic culture, don't look the part, and can't prove my bloodline in anyway.

When I took the LSAT, I did the honest thing and marked myself as Caucasian. I'm guessing that I'm stuck with that classification and can not justify marking a different box on my actual applications. I have no clue what specific country my Hispanic heritage is from which seems to be a key factor in determining URM.
you
I just want to make sure my instinct to stay Caucasian is correct. I don't feel that I can ethically justify anything else but as a Texas resident with a 163 LSAT and 3.57 GPA - being an URM would make the different whether I got into UT or not. It might also net me a full-ride at my first choice school, Texas Tech.

Advice? Stick with Caucasian, right?


You're in a bind. I generally don't weigh in on posts where people say things like "I just found out I'm X ethnicity/race, is it okay to mark that?" since I don't really have a good answer for those types of situations. You have some of the same issues since you basically would be writing you are Hispanic for the first time. I could see that this might cause issues (especially when coupled with the fact that it's nigh impossible for you to trace). The broader thing is that general Hispanic isn't URM. There might be a small boost but you won't see the kind of boosts that MX/PR get.

What you look like doesn't determine your ethnicity/race. Does your mother laugh at Cameron Diaz? Cameron Diaz looks white as fuck and yet she is still Hispanic. I also think that identification decisions should not be made with regard to whether you will get a boost or not. Here I would say just write white since you have kept with that and you stand little to gain. That being said, I am uncomfortable advising since there is a chance that you are actually Hispanic regardless of what your birth certificate says and if you are actually Hispanic there is nothing wrong with marking that (though there may be issues due to your sudden switch).

User avatar
Nightrunner
Posts: 5345
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:14 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Nightrunner » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:31 pm

BK speaks wisely. The only things I can add are (a) changing your identification to URM now, after the LSAT, will look shady as hell to anyone who ever knows about it, and separately, (b) if you didn't have a topic for a diversity statement before, I would say you do now.

indo
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:02 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby indo » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:19 am

Harvey Dent wrote:When can we expect to colonize the red planet?

I'm looking forward to Martian-American.


+1

andreskicdo
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:06 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby andreskicdo » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:08 pm

I hope people in this thread can provide some clarity and insight regarding my situation.

I was born in Colombia and immigrated to the US when I was 18. I have never though about race until now as I usually think of myself as Hispanic for race purposes. For the census I defined myself as Hispanic and when it came down to race I declared I was mixed. I definitely do not define myself as white, but neither do I define myself as black. What do other URMs from South America that are mixed have done in a similar situation? Do you just check both the white and black boxes?

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:10 pm

andreskicdo wrote:I hope people in this thread can provide some clarity and insight regarding my situation.

I was born in Colombia and immigrated to the US when I was 18. I have never though about race until now as I usually think of myself as Hispanic for race purposes. For the census I defined myself as Hispanic and when it came down to race I declared I was mixed. I definitely do not define myself as white, but neither do I define myself as black. What do other URMs from South America that are mixed have done in a similar situation? Do you just check both the white and black boxes?

I assume you're talking about applications where they ask "Hispanic/Not Hispanic" and then separately ask what your race is.

I think most Hispanics check "Hispanic" and "white" unless they have black heritage, in which case they may check "black".

I do know of some Hispanics who objected to being asked "Hispanic" separately from race, and would check "other" and write in "Hispanic" for race on apps that allow it. I'm not sure how that affected their apps, though.

angflos
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby angflos » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:38 pm

andreskicdo wrote:I hope people in this thread can provide some clarity and insight regarding my situation.

I was born in Colombia and immigrated to the US when I was 18. I have never though about race until now as I usually think of myself as Hispanic for race purposes. For the census I defined myself as Hispanic and when it came down to race I declared I was mixed. I definitely do not define myself as white, but neither do I define myself as black. What do other URMs from South America that are mixed have done in a similar situation? Do you just check both the white and black boxes?


I'm Puerto Rican, so on some applications there is a box for PR, but on many there isn't or they ask you what your race is also. I've always been raised to believe I was of mixed heritage. I was always told my maternal grandmother and her family were mulatos and of mixed Indian-Black descent, which I verified on the 1940 Census (my grandmother and her family were listed as mulatos). I was also told my paternal grandfather and his father were black, which I also confirmed on the 1940 Census. On the other hand, my maternal grandfather was of Spanish descent and is listed as white in the 1940 Census, and my paternal grandmother was listed as white. As you can see, I'm a mix of African, European, and Indian heritage, so I mark all 3 when they ask.

Hispanic is not a race, though a lot of times Hispanics don't fit into the race bubbles, I'd either mark as many as you want, put other, or decline to answer.

User avatar
PickledPanda
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:43 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby PickledPanda » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:00 am

andreskicdo wrote:I hope people in this thread can provide some clarity and insight regarding my situation.

I was born in Colombia and immigrated to the US when I was 18. I have never though about race until now as I usually think of myself as Hispanic for race purposes. For the census I defined myself as Hispanic and when it came down to race I declared I was mixed. I definitely do not define myself as white, but neither do I define myself as black. What do other URMs from South America that are mixed have done in a similar situation? Do you just check both the white and black boxes?


Black is typically used for those of black African Descent, not those with dark skin. If you are from South America you should select the box that best describes your racial heritage, and without African Black blood you should NOT put that you are black- you could face disbarment and expulsion from law school.

071816
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 071816 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:38 pm

NEWS FLASH: Hispanic/Latino is not a race.

User avatar
warandpeace
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:43 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby warandpeace » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:14 pm

what's the consensus on 2 or more races? thanks.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:29 pm

warandpeace wrote:what's the consensus on 2 or more races? thanks.


Check all races that you are. You will not be treated any differently than the purebloods.

chimp wrote:NEWS FLASH: Hispanic/Latino is not a race.


I mean, this is true, but considering that both race and ethnicity are constructs it isn't that ridiculous to be confused.

User avatar
20121109
Posts: 2149
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:19 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 20121109 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:43 pm

bk1 wrote:
chimp wrote:NEWS FLASH: Hispanic/Latino is not a race.


I mean, this is true, but considering that both race and ethnicity are constructs it isn't that ridiculous to be confused.


Yeah, when people bring this up I can't help but feel they're being pedantic.

071816
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 071816 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:47 am

bk1 wrote:
chimp wrote:NEWS FLASH: Hispanic/Latino is not a race.


I mean, this is true, but considering that both race and ethnicity are constructs it isn't that ridiculous to be confused.

Doesn't make it any less wrong.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:11 am

chimp wrote:
bk1 wrote:
chimp wrote:NEWS FLASH: Hispanic/Latino is not a race.


I mean, this is true, but considering that both race and ethnicity are constructs it isn't that ridiculous to be confused.

Doesn't make it any less wrong.

Right, but it isn't really a meaningful distinction worth pointing out. It's like being supertechnical and pointing out that Brazilians aren't Hispanic.

User avatar
scifiguy
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby scifiguy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:06 pm

I'm part Asian and wondering if that counts towards URM status for law school admissions.

Is URM pretty much the same for all schools or is it individually defined for specific schools?

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Nova » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:14 pm

scifiguy wrote:I'm part Asian and wondering if that counts towards URM status for law school admissions.

Is URM pretty much the same for all schools or is it individually defined for specific schools?


No, sorry. Asians are very well represented in law school.

Official URMs are African Americans, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and Mexican Americans.

071816
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 071816 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:52 pm

bk1 wrote:
chimp wrote:
bk1 wrote:
chimp wrote:NEWS FLASH: Hispanic/Latino is not a race.


I mean, this is true, but considering that both race and ethnicity are constructs it isn't that ridiculous to be confused.

Doesn't make it any less wrong.

Right, but it isn't really a meaningful distinction worth pointing out. It's like being supertechnical and pointing out that Brazilians aren't Hispanic.

It's completely worth pointing out and a misconception that many Americans have.

ttorres93
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:51 pm

Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby ttorres93 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:05 pm

I'm 1/4 Mexican, but have white skin and do not speak Spanish (nor does my dad). In the past, I've marked White/Hispanic on college applications, without really thinking about it. Will it be a problem if I mark myself as Mexican/Hispanic for law school apps? I've always considered myself more Mexican than anything (mostly because of my last name and my dad's family), but biologically speaking I have more Caucasian blood in my veins.

I also am 1/16 Native American (Lipan Apache; I have documentation) but I'm assuming that doesn't really matter.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests