Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
071816
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 071816 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:46 pm

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:Check the box, South African.

If you are black, yes.


If you are white, red, yellow, or black, check the box.

If the poster had not too distant lineage in the Middle East and was black because of this, would he be able to claim African American descent because his skin color corresponded to your preference?

Yes. But not because of his Middle Eastern origins.


lol no

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:52 pm

K

Fuuuu123
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Fuuuu123 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:50 am

Im full armenian, born in armenia, am I an urm, given any diversity bonus?

rad lulz
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby rad lulz » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:52 am

Fuuuu123 wrote:Im full armenian, born in armenia, am I an urm, given any diversity bonus?

Might be decent diversity statement fodder, but probably not

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:34 am

I spotted this thread and wanted to post the South-African / African-American question out of genuine curiosity and BOOM found it right away lol.

My $.02 - If I was in the position I would check the box since, quite literally, you are an African-American and the question is referring to your ethnic origins. It may seem deceiving but you would technically be lying (not good on a law school app) and doing yourself a disservice by not checking the box. Colloquially, AA is the politically correct term for black people, however, it is the school/LSAC's prerogative to ask clear questions, not for the applicant to "read between the lines." This is especially true since the simple solution would be to just have the box read "African-American / Black." Since there isn't a HUGE number of white South African's, presumably, applying, they could check the "Other" box and write in.

This almost certainly has to have been an issue for schools before. If there is one thing that law school has taught me, if you can imagine something, then there is a case(s) that factually is very close somewhere. There has to be a case where a white South African checked the box, got denied c&f for lying, and filed a lawsuit to fight the denial.

071816
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 071816 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:43 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:I spotted this thread and wanted to post the South-African / African-American question out of genuine curiosity and BOOM found it right away lol.

My $.02 - If I was in the position I would check the box since, quite literally, you are an African-American and the question is referring to your ethnic origins. It may seem deceiving but you would technically be lying (not good on a law school app) and doing yourself a disservice by not checking the box. Colloquially, AA is the politically correct term for black people, however, it is the school/LSAC's prerogative to ask clear questions, not for the applicant to "read between the lines." This is especially true since the simple solution would be to just have the box read "African-American / Black." Since there isn't a HUGE number of white South African's, presumably, applying, they could check the "Other" box and write in.

This almost certainly has to have been an issue for schools before. If there is one thing that law school has taught me, if you can imagine something, then there is a case(s) that factually is very close somewhere. There has to be a case where a white South African checked the box, got denied c&f for lying, and filed a lawsuit to fight the denial.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:20 am

chimp wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:I spotted this thread and wanted to post the South-African / African-American question out of genuine curiosity and BOOM found it right away lol.

My $.02 - If I was in the position I would check the box since, quite literally, you are an African-American and the question is referring to your ethnic origins. It may seem deceiving but you would technically be lying (not good on a law school app) and doing yourself a disservice by not checking the box. Colloquially, AA is the politically correct term for black people, however, it is the school/LSAC's prerogative to ask clear questions, not for the applicant to "read between the lines." This is especially true since the simple solution would be to just have the box read "African-American / Black." Since there isn't a HUGE number of white South African's, presumably, applying, they could check the "Other" box and write in.

This almost certainly has to have been an issue for schools before. If there is one thing that law school has taught me, if you can imagine something, then there is a case(s) that factually is very close somewhere. There has to be a case where a white South African checked the box, got denied c&f for lying, and filed a lawsuit to fight the denial.


Why the strike thru bro?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:20 am

There are ~4.5 million white South Africans yet apartheid lasted until 1994. It seems more than the regular amount of disingenuous to claim to be African-American if you're white South African.

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bk1
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:50 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:Why the strike thru bro?


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=182942#p5420336

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:26 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:Why the strike thru bro?


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p5420336


Right on. I was late to the party.

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bk1
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:33 pm

Lawl Shcool wrote:Right on. I was late to the party.


No problem. To make an analogy for other people who want to keep on harping on the literal meaning of African-American:

It would be disingenuous for a cab driver to classify his job as "escort." He literally does escort people, but escort is a euphemism for high class prostitute. Thus the definition for escort stems from the term it replaces and not from the literal meaning of the word itself.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:44 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:Right on. I was late to the party.


No problem. To make an analogy for other people who want to keep on harping on the literal meaning of African-American:

It would be disingenuous for a cab driver to classify his job as "escort." He literally does escort people, but escort is a euphemism for high class prostitute. Thus the definition for escort stems from the term it replaces and not from the literal meaning of the word itself.


I totally get the disingenuous nature of it. It has been awhile since I have filled out something with that question on it, does it say to follow the DoE definition or is it ambiguous?

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bk1
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:00 pm

Lawl Shcool wrote:I totally get the disingenuous nature of it. It has been awhile since I have filled out something with that question on it, does it say to follow the DoE definition or is it ambiguous?


LSAC: "Black or African American"

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:I totally get the disingenuous nature of it. It has been awhile since I have filled out something with that question on it, does it say to follow the DoE definition or is it ambiguous?


LSAC: "Black or African American"


Bingo, my curiosity on the topic has now ceased.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby FinallyGoing » Fri May 04, 2012 8:03 pm

So recently I have been doing some genealogy stuff for both of my parents through ancestry.com and a couple of other sites; I have come to find out that my Mother's father, my grandfather was from Mexico. Do I qualify as Mexican-American? Should I mark this on my apps?
Last edited by FinallyGoing on Sat May 05, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kapachino
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby kapachino » Fri May 04, 2012 8:57 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:So recently I have been doing some genealogy stuff for both of my parents through ancestry.com and a couple of other sites; I have come to find out that my Mother's grandfather was from Mexico. Do I qualify as Mexican-American? Should I mark this on my apps?


No.

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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat May 05, 2012 3:12 pm

kapachino wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:So recently I have been doing some genealogy stuff for both of my parents through ancestry.com and a couple of other sites; I have come to find out that my Mother's grandfather was from Mexico. Do I qualify as Mexican-American? Should I mark this on my apps?


No.

I've been marking "Hispanic" things sporadically throughout life and Latin culture has always been a big part of my life and upbringing. We just never knew exactly from where these traditions were from. There was early speculation in my family that he was from Ecuador.

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kapachino
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby kapachino » Sat May 05, 2012 3:21 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:
kapachino wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:So recently I have been doing some genealogy stuff for both of my parents through ancestry.com and a couple of other sites; I have come to find out that my Mother's grandfather was from Mexico. Do I qualify as Mexican-American? Should I mark this on my apps?


No.

I've been marking "Hispanic" things sporadically throughout life and Latin culture has always been a big part of my life and upbringing. We just never knew exactly from where these traditions were from. There was early speculation in my family that he was from Ecuador.


What have you been putting on your college applications? Job applications, Census surveys, etc.? And how do you define "Latin culture", exactly? Because there is no uniform "Latin culture". If you've been identifying yourself as white all this time, you need to continue to identifying yourself as white. Otherwise, you'll run into problems.

EDIT: I find it interesting that you said that you just found out about your "Mexican heritage" by looking at Ancestry.com, and then turned around and said you've occasionally seen yourself as "Hispanic" through the years. What's the story there?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat May 05, 2012 3:53 pm

kapachino wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:
kapachino wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:So recently I have been doing some genealogy stuff for both of my parents through ancestry.com and a couple of other sites; I have come to find out that my Mother's grandfather was from Mexico. Do I qualify as Mexican-American? Should I mark this on my apps?


No.

I've been marking "Hispanic" things sporadically throughout life and Latin culture has always been a big part of my life and upbringing. We just never knew exactly from where these traditions were from. There was early speculation in my family that he was from Ecuador.


What have you been putting on your college applications? Job applications, Census surveys, etc.? And how do you define "Latin culture", exactly? Because there is no uniform "Latin culture". If you've been identifying yourself as white all this time, you need to continue to identifying yourself as white. Otherwise, you'll run into problems.

EDIT: I find it interesting that you said that you just found out about your "Mexican heritage" by looking at Ancestry.com, and then turned around and said you've occasionally seen yourself as "Hispanic" through the years. What's the story there?


Why should it matter? The way the AA is constructed requires schools to do it on the basis of blood, not "heritage" or "cultural connection." If he is honest he should submit a diversity statement (like all Mexican-Americans, and Native Americans should because of variable bounces). The adcomm will then say "wow, this guy has a very small percentage, we question his judgement for applying." However, maybe some schools that really need URMs (there are a few) would give him a boost.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat May 05, 2012 4:25 pm

kapachino wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:
kapachino wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:So recently I have been doing some genealogy stuff for both of my parents through ancestry.com and a couple of other sites; I have come to find out that my Mother's grandfather was from Mexico. Do I qualify as Mexican-American? Should I mark this on my apps?


No.

I've been marking "Hispanic" things sporadically throughout life and Latin culture has always been a big part of my life and upbringing. We just never knew exactly from where these traditions were from. There was early speculation in my family that he was from Ecuador.


What have you been putting on your college applications? Job applications, Census surveys, etc.? And how do you define "Latin culture", exactly? Because there is no uniform "Latin culture". If you've been identifying yourself as white all this time, you need to continue to identifying yourself as white. Otherwise, you'll run into problems.

EDIT: I find it interesting that you said that you just found out about your "Mexican heritage" by looking at Ancestry.com, and then turned around and said you've occasionally seen yourself as "Hispanic" through the years. What's the story there?


In community college I listed Hispanic and on the application to the university I ultimately graduated from I marked white, because there was no option for "Hispanic"; it had many nationalities broken down into individual groups. On job applications I have gone between white, Hispanic and decline to state. I am a non-trad applicant, originally from SoCal, and growing up and into early adulthood, I always felt listing it would actually harm me and not help me.

I define Latin culture in this context as loosely being: cuisine, art, and values.

Like I said above, I have always known that my Mother's Father was Hispanic, however we never knew from where. We didn't know if he was from Mexico, Panama, Ecuador etc.. My grandfather had 2 wives, his first wife was also Mexican and they had one child and then his second wife was American and they had my Mother. Growing up, my Uncle who is full blooded Mexican was very much a part of my household and family, imparting the culture into my life deeply. My Mother also brought the culture into our household as well.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat May 05, 2012 4:30 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:


Why should it matter? The way the AA is constructed requires schools to do it on the basis of blood, not "heritage" or "cultural connection." If he is honest he should submit a diversity statement (like all Mexican-Americans, and Native Americans should because of variable bounces). The adcomm will then say "wow, this guy has a very small percentage, we question his judgement for applying." However, maybe some schools that really need URMs (there are a few) would give him a boost.



Going beyond what I have listed here, I would certainly write a DS on the topic and include the fact that my Mother's Mother was Jewish and that I was raised Jewish as well. It was certainly very interesting growing up in religious school inviting kids over for Latin food, and being able to speak both Spanish and Hebrew. Especially given the affluence of my community and the fact that throughout my life I have been surrounded by anti-Hispanic bias, albeit not usually directed at me...probably because people just assumed I was a Sephardic, Persian Jew.

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kapachino
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby kapachino » Sat May 05, 2012 4:39 pm

FinallyGoing, check your pms.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby FinallyGoing » Sat May 05, 2012 4:45 pm

kapachino wrote:FinallyGoing, check your pms.

Will do!

Also, thanks for pointing out my typo..in my original post I meant to write my Mother's father, my grandfather...instead I initially said, my mothers grandfather.

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Helicio
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Helicio » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:19 pm

So to be clear, Middle Eastern is NOT URM, correct?

And how much can diversity statemenets help if one is from a super super super small minority from the Mid East?

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bk1
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

Helicio wrote:So to be clear, Middle Eastern is NOT URM, correct?

And how much can diversity statemenets help if one is from a super super super small minority from the Mid East?


Correct.

Probably not much but no reason not to.




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