Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM?? Forum

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

I'm Indonesian...I won't count as a URM either, huh??

no.

Nice tar. Did her blowing her brains out not make sense to anyone else? That whole show pissed me off.

Just her ending upset me. The rest of it was a success.

[teabag]

I'm Indonesian...I won't count as a URM either, huh??

no.

Nice tar. Did her blowing her brains out not make sense to anyone else? That whole show pissed me off.

Just her ending upset me. The rest of it was a success.

you are an attractive woman!

[James Bond]

I'm 1/4th Polish. You'd think for a people stereotyped as being idiots that I'd get a URM boost for admissions.

[Mattalones]

This came up in another thread, but I though that it would fit here as ...

Something useful

Without getting into AA, here is a fairly useful way to think about and clarify what URM is:

An Underrepresented Minority (URM) in higher education is any ethnic group that has historically made up a significantly smaller proportion of a given field of study (e.g. law school) than they make up in the general population, where "general population" can mean either the national population or the regional population near a certain school (e.g. the population of MA for Boston College, or California for UCLA).

National underrepresentation and overreppresentation:
Think about any ethnic group (I am going to make up a word for illustration) and call that group "puffs." If puffs are 10% of the national population, but they make up only 1% of the population in higher education, then puffs are very underrepresented. Now, think of another ethnic group - the "pops" - who make up only 3% of the national population, but who make up 30% of the population in higher education. That makes the pops very overrepresented.

Now that the point is made, think of actual ethnic groups in higher education: Hispanic and Asian Americans at top universities.
The last census reported that about 15.4% of the US is hispanic and that about 4.4% of the US is Asian. Now take a look at those groups for some top universities:

US POP
Asian: 4.4% - Hispanic: 15.4%

3 TOP WEST SCHOOLS
UCLA
Asian: 38% - Hispanic: 15%
UC Berkeley
Asian: 41% - Hispanic: 11%
Stanford
Asian: 28%% - Hispanic: 10%

Average for these WEST schools
Asian: 36%% - Hispanic: 12%

3 TOP EAST SCHOOLS
Harvard
Asian: 16%% - Hispanic: 7%
Yale
Asian: 14%% - Hispanic: 7%
Northwestern
Asian: 18%% - Hispanic: 7%

Average for these EAST schools
Asian: 13%% - Hispanic: 7%

After looking at this, you can clearly see that, at least for 3 top schools on each side of the country (feel free to post-to-increase my sample of top EAST/WEST undergrads if you want), there is nearly a tripple overrepresentation of Asian Americans in both EAST and WEST, while the reppresentation splits for hispanics. EAST has only one-half representation for hispanics, whereas WEST falls short by much less.

The above was only a comparison to the national population, and demographics vary by region.

Regional underrepresentation and overreppresentation
Because the west coast boarders Mexico, it has more hispanic than the east coast. Because of proximity as well, the west coast also has more Asians. So, the role that regional ethnography plays is important to consider.

The census shows that states on the west have much more hispanics than the east; CA has a 37% hispanic population. East coast states are much different: NY has a 17% hispanic population, Pennsylvania has a 5% hispanic population, ME has a 17% hispanic population, etc. So, this strongly suggests that hispanic underrepresentation in CA is actually about proportional to that of east coast states event though hispanic reppresentation is closer to the national average at top CA schools than it is at top east schools.

Historicity
The numbers can't just be mismatched in a random year for a group to be a URM in higher education. An ethnic group's reppresentation being lower in higher education than in the general population must be a longstanding fact, and it must be the result of institutionalized barriers to access (e.g. the long-lasting affects of segregation).

Mexicans had it bad in CA: (picture of a typical sign in window of CA restaurant from 1900-1960s)

Blacks had it bad everywhere: (picture of a typical sign for blacks from 1900-1960s)

You all know the story, or have at least heard parts of it. Either way, I won't get into it, but there have been serious barriers to entry into many life-essentials (e.g. health care, education, job markets, property ownership, etc) for a select handful of ethnics groups in the US (e.g. blacks, Mexicans, Indian Americans), and the effects of those barriers accounts for part of the story behind underrepresentation of those groups in higher education. Only those ethnic groups that are underrepresented in part because of such barriers meet this historicity criteria; they have been historically underrepresented in a way that makes them eligible to be URMs.

Implications
This idea of "URM boosts" is obviously meant to help. However, whenever help is given out in categories, things get hazy. Consider something analogous to illustrate why: As we all know, just because horses are animals, it doesn't mean that "helping animals" means helping horses (viz. there are many other animals besides horses; rattle snakes, for instance). In the same way, helping only groups who have been historically underrepresented in higher education raises questions: should the rich black/Mexican/Native-American kid get help? should the poor white kid not get help? why deny certain groups help like the Hmong Chinese, who face serious barriers into life essential in China? There will always be these types of "where do we draw the line" questions. However, recognizing URMs as a group is a step in a good direction. The best that can be done to mitigate line-drawing issues is to take things on a case-by-case basis.

HTH

[hiromoto45]

In this thread, people still do not understand the meaning of URM and Affirmative Action. Highly disappointing for a pool of future lawyers who are supposed to be fundamentally sound with logical, comprehension and reasoning skills.

First of all, racism DOES exist and anybody who refuses to acknowledge this is a buffoon. While it's not in-your-face, it's still there as it has become more institutional and systematic.

URM=Under-represented Minorities
-not who's most disadvantaged
-not who's "more black"
-not who suffers the most at the hands of "whitey"

So, considering this, a "rich" black person is no different from a "poor" black person in the eyes of Adcomm members because both are still under-represented minorities. Those who try to say that a bourgie (or well-off) black person doesn't deserve to be considered for admission with respect to AA (like many posters in this thread) are mistaken and don't understand the concept of URMs/AA.

The main reason URMs (blacks, Latinos, Native Americans) are sought out by Admission Committees is because of what they are: under represented minorities. Schools, for varying reasons, seek to have as many URMs as possible to at least appear to have a diverse student body. In order to do this, schools go out of their ways to find URMs. This is where AA comes into play. Affirmative Action, in school, seeks to level the playing field in the sense of having plausible, attainable racial/ethnic representation in college and graduate schools. AA achieves when as many QUALIFIED URMs as possible are given opportunities to succeed academically. While there will most likely never be as many blacks/Latinos/Native Americans as whites in institutions of higher learning, given the racial composition of the American population, AA seeks to provide access to premier academic institutions by enabling Adcomms with the ability and desire to give extra consideration to URM applicants. Also, AA doesn't take seats away from "more qualified" (code for: white applicants) and, if anything, increases the level of competition for admission amongst URMs. And while schools may not openly admit to this, there is a quota for URMs that matches the American population, more or less. So, AA doesn't take seats away from whites.

When it comes to the preferences of Adcomms, we can be sure that URMs who have demonstrated achievement in the face of adversity (ie-a latino kid from the barrio who succeeded academically in high school and college in the face of drug dealers, murder, etc.) are generally favored. However, as many people seemingly fail to grasp, when it comes to URMs especially, it's quality over quantity in the eyes of adcomms, even though they would like to have as many URMs as possible. Schools, for the most part, would rather have 20 URMs who seem to be competent of succeeding academically as opposed to having 200+ URMS, some of whom would undeniably struggle. That is why some "rich" black kid who may have attended the best schools and grow up in a relatively affluent neighborhood could be considered more favorably by certain Adcomms than a "poor" black kid who performed at a high level academically in the public education system. It would be less of a risk in terms of seeing their students fail, much less URMs. At the end of the day, education is still a business and schools are still going to want the best and brightest, even in the face of conscious efforts to attain as many URMs as possible.

There it is.

180

This shouldn't be lost in the fray.

Maybe a MOD can post this at the top of the URM section. It clarifies the URM status and dispels the socio-ecomonic component many try to incorporate into AA.

[FinFan13]

I'm half Persian, half Mexican.

I don't have any contact with my biological father.

Am I a URM? If so, how do I go about proving it?

They don't require you to prove it. Just say you identify as Mexican and Persian, which is true.

Don't they require a birth certificate or something?

I might have trouble pinning it down, I just want to be sure. I think I can do it if I put in the effort and the get in touch with the right institutions.

Will this be a necessity?

[vanwinkle]

I'm half Persian, half Mexican.

I don't have any contact with my biological father.

Am I a URM? If so, how do I go about proving it?

They don't require you to prove it. Just say you identify as Mexican and Persian, which is true.

Don't they require a birth certificate or something?

No. You simply mark your race on your application. The law school does not verify it. However, you should be advised that if you do something noticeably false it can get you in trouble with the bar. If you've always identified as Mexican on records/applications you can continue to check it without concern.

(I don't think "Persian" is something you can identify as at all. Either "white" or "other" probably. The census bureau assumes Arabs are white, I believe? Something of much concern to Arab-Americans, who rightly feel they aren't being properly counted/represented.)

[jeremydc]

For me, some applications had Native Hawaiian and others did not.

I figure for those that did not, I could check Native American and under tribe just put down Kau Inoa (search it) or Native Hawaiian.

[Langfall]

In this thread, people still do not understand the meaning of URM and Affirmative Action. Highly disappointing for a pool of future lawyers who are supposed to be fundamentally sound with logical, comprehension and reasoning skills.

First of all, racism DOES exist and anybody who refuses to acknowledge this is a buffoon. While it's not in-your-face, it's still there as it has become more institutional and systematic.

URM=Under-represented Minorities
-not who's most disadvantaged
-not who's "more black"
-not who suffers the most at the hands of "whitey"

So, considering this, a "rich" black person is no different from a "poor" black person in the eyes of Adcomm members because both are still under-represented minorities. Those who try to say that a bourgie (or well-off) black person doesn't deserve to be considered for admission with respect to AA (like many posters in this thread) are mistaken and don't understand the concept of URMs/AA.

The main reason URMs (blacks, Latinos, Native Americans) are sought out by Admission Committees is because of what they are: under represented minorities. Schools, for varying reasons, seek to have as many URMs as possible to at least appear to have a diverse student body. In order to do this, schools go out of their ways to find URMs. This is where AA comes into play. Affirmative Action, in school, seeks to level the playing field in the sense of having plausible, attainable racial/ethnic representation in college and graduate schools. AA achieves when as many QUALIFIED URMs as possible are given opportunities to succeed academically. While there will most likely never be as many blacks/Latinos/Native Americans as whites in institutions of higher learning, given the racial composition of the American population, AA seeks to provide access to premier academic institutions by enabling Adcomms with the ability and desire to give extra consideration to URM applicants. Also, AA doesn't take seats away from "more qualified" (code for: white applicants) and, if anything, increases the level of competition for admission amongst URMs. And while schools may not openly admit to this, there is a quota for URMs that matches the American population, more or less. So, AA doesn't take seats away from whites.

When it comes to the preferences of Adcomms, we can be sure that URMs who have demonstrated achievement in the face of adversity (ie-a latino kid from the barrio who succeeded academically in high school and college in the face of drug dealers, murder, etc.) are generally favored. However, as many people seemingly fail to grasp, when it comes to URMs especially, it's quality over quantity in the eyes of adcomms, even though they would like to have as many URMs as possible. Schools, for the most part, would rather have 20 URMs who seem to be competent of succeeding academically as opposed to having 200+ URMS, some of whom would undeniably struggle. That is why some "rich" black kid who may have attended the best schools and grow up in a relatively affluent neighborhood could be considered more favorably by certain Adcomms than a "poor" black kid who performed at a high level academically in the public education system. It would be less of a risk in terms of seeing their students fail, much less URMs. At the end of the day, education is still a business and schools are still going to want the best and brightest, even in the face of conscious efforts to attain as many URMs as possible.

There it is.

180

This shouldn't be lost in the fray.

Maybe a MOD can post this at the top of the URM section. It clarifies the URM status and dispels the socio-ecomonic component many try to incorporate into AA.

+10000000

[thegrayman]

I am half mexican and half white. Will I be considered the same URM status as someone who is full Mexican, or less? Do I need to indicate that I am both on my application? I cannot remember what I marked on my undergrad application as my race, is that something I should inquire about for consistency?

[vanwinkle]

I am half mexican and half white. Will I be considered the same URM status as someone who is full Mexican, or less? Do I need to indicate that I am both on my application? I cannot remember what I marked on my undergrad application as my race, is that something I should inquire about for consistency?

You do not need to indicate that you are both. You can if you want; it's unclear how this will affect your URM status. If you're half-Mexican and your experiences as a result make you a unique applicant who could add to a school's diversity, you should write a Diversity Statement that is separate from your Personal Statement and submit it as well. Most schools will accept an additional DS even though they do not list it on the application.

As long as you've identified as Mexican at some previous point in your life, you should be fine.

[mmanunta]

I was born in Argentina (South America), and raised in Paraguay (also South America) until about age 13. From what I have read thus far, it seems that the only ones getting any type of advantage due to race are Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and Blacks. Does this mean that though I'm 100% latino, native tongue is spanish, and all the other latino characteristics, I'm considered in the same manner as a caucasian, or do I have some sort of advantage due to my heritage?

I am currently a permanent resident of the U.S.

[LogicalBaozi]

Reading this thread, one truly gets a sense of desperation mixed with three parts depression.

I am a persecuted minority:
I don't drink, I don't party, and I don't like sports, especially American Football. For this, I have been persecuted heavily by my peers since High School. Alas, nerds are not in fact a recognized URM (or perhaps we are an overrepresented minority?).

[vanwinkle]

I was born in Argentina (South America), and raised in Paraguay (also South America) until about age 13. From what I have read thus far, it seems that the only ones getting any type of advantage due to race are Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and Blacks. Does this mean that though I'm 100% latino, native tongue is spanish, and all the other latino characteristics, I'm considered in the same manner as a caucasian, or do I have some sort of advantage due to my heritage?

I am currently a permanent resident of the U.S.

This is a very tricky question. Some schools seem to only give boosts to Mexicans or Puerto Ricans, and others seem to take a broader approach toward all Hispanics. It's hard to tell, and it's also complicated by the fact that Hispanic applications in general are much higher in TX and CA than the north and east, meaning TX and CA schools have to give much less of a boost to get high Hispanic enrollment.

You should definitely focus your PS on your background, or write a separate DS about it. You may get a real boost from it at some schools. It depends on how their individual system works; since schools don't announce these things, it's hard to tell.

[vanwinkle]

Reading this thread, one truly gets a sense of desperation mixed with three parts depression.

I am a persecuted minority:
I don't drink, I don't party, and I don't like sports, especially American Football. For this, I have been persecuted heavily by my peers since High School. Alas, nerds are not in fact a recognized URM (or perhaps we are an overrepresented minority?).

But you prove that you're a nerd by acing the LSAT and thus don't need a boost anyway.

[LogicalBaozi]

Reading this thread, one truly gets a sense of desperation mixed with three parts depression.

I am a persecuted minority:
I don't drink, I don't party, and I don't like sports, especially American Football. For this, I have been persecuted heavily by my peers since High School. Alas, nerds are not in fact a recognized URM (or perhaps we are an overrepresented minority?).

But you prove that you're a nerd by acing the LSAT and thus don't need a boost anyway.

Game set and match, good sir. That was the credited answer choice!

[poopstains]

I was born in Argentina (South America), and raised in Paraguay (also South America) until about age 13. From what I have read thus far, it seems that the only ones getting any type of advantage due to race are Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Native Americans, and Blacks. Does this mean that though I'm 100% latino, native tongue is spanish, and all the other latino characteristics, I'm considered in the same manner as a caucasian, or do I have some sort of advantage due to my heritage?

I am currently a permanent resident of the U.S.

que pasa loco? aguante argentina! i have a very similar background. i'm pretty sure i got preferential treatment for it. if you pm me and ill let you know the specifics.

[notreallyalawyer]

I have been confused about this my entire life. My mother is native born Chilean with Spanish ancestry on both sides of her family. My father is your typical American melting pot type. I am fully fluent in Spanish and am also a dual-citizen with Chile. What am I? Hispanic? Caucasian? What should I claim on applications?

[vanwinkle]

I have been confused about this my entire life. My mother is native born Chilean with Spanish ancestry on both sides of her family. My father is your typical American melting pot type. I am fully fluent in Spanish and am also a dual-citizen with Chile. What am I? Hispanic? Caucasian? What should I claim on applications?

You can claim Hispanic on your applications, for certain. You can also write a Diversity Statement to explain your diverse background and the benefits it's given you (exposure to Hispanic culture, being multilingual, etc.)

[DustyfootPhilospher]

If you are what is culturally considered "Black" in the US you always have at least some African genetic heritage except for in a few exeptional cases (can give examples if you want). It is true that many Black people don't Identity with African culture but that usually because they are uneducated about the fact that their current culture draws heavily from African influences right down to food and music. Besides identify with the culture or not thats where their families are from.

African American however is not an accurate term because a large amount of people who are racially black in the US do not consider themselves African-American. Many have families from the Caribbean, Latin America, or directly from Sub-Saharan Africa and consider themselves Afro-Caribbean, Afro-Latino, or just African instead of Afro-American although they still consider themselves racially black. This goes for some who are born an raised in America. A more appropriate term is Black or even Black-American. African American refers to a spefic culture and is a designation not used by all black people in the US. As a side topic Africans of direct African decent do much better academically than other URM's. They are statistically more similar in to Asians and are actually over represented in many areas of academia (def for the sciences). Maybe there should be some discussion about rather or not they should recieve URM status. They distiguish between different groups within the Hispanic Ethnicity when granting URM status so maybe they should do the same within other "racial" categories.

Why do people always say "African-American"? A lot of black people don't identify with African culture, and many aren't even of African genetic origin.
Can't you just say BLACK? WTF?

TITCR. I prefer Black American.

[Nola]

If my grandmother is 1/2 Mexican 1/2 Honduran, am I able to check Mexican American?

[colombiano123]

If my grandmother is 1/2 Mexican 1/2 Honduran, am I able to check Mexican American?

I was wondering this as well, after searching my family history it turns out my grandfather was born in Mexico. I would like to check the Mex-Am URM box but, some threads mention that 1/4 URM is not URM. Can I check the box?

[DustyfootPhilospher]

i actually heard 1/4th is the limit.

[DustyfootPhilospher]

I would also be interested in finding out if Dominicans have URM status. They are certainly economically disadvantaged and I could not imagine represented on par with their population in the US. I think that the people who created the URM status did not know all of the Latin American countries. Also it doesn’t make sense that they excluded all countries of South America from the URM designation. I’m sure your average Argentine comes from a background of more education and financial means than say your average person of Bolivian ancestry due to socio-economic reasons.

[lala7]

.