Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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laidoffjournalist
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby laidoffjournalist » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:14 am

I think I'm basically Italian, Irish, German and French Canadian (is that just French?). If I can find 1% of something else, maybe Mongolian or something, can I be a URM? Pleeeease? I'll get DNA tests done!

kevin261186
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby kevin261186 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:10 pm

Partially sighted Scottish (legal) immigrant. URM?

digitalcntrl
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby digitalcntrl » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:32 pm

laidoffjournalist wrote:I think I'm basically Italian, Irish, German and French Canadian (is that just French?). If I can find 1% of something else, maybe Mongolian or something, can I be a URM? Pleeeease? I'll get DNA tests done!


Lol even Mongolians are not URM. The uber URM is being Native American. Do a DNA test and see if you get lucky :mrgreen: .

cochon
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby cochon » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:25 pm

What is the status of southeast Asians? Does being a Vietnamese refugee give me big diversity points?

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MC Southstar
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby MC Southstar » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:31 pm

cochon wrote:What is the status of southeast Asians? Does being a Vietnamese refugee give me big diversity points?


It probably should, but it probably doesn't. Those Mongolians should get URM status though, oh well. I bet Tibetans get a big boost just because the Western media loves them (yes, I've met a refugee here, he smoked a lot O_O).

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:48 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
lishi wrote:For Arabs/Indians/Pakistanians/Middle Easterners, for law school purposes you are usually not considered a URM. This is for a variety of reasons. It's most likely not fair, but life isn't fair.


What are the reasons??


The reason is that "URM" is a specifically defined group of races: Black, Hispanic (Mexican/Puerto Rican), and Native American. Since Arabs are not one of these specifically-defined races, they are not URMs.

The reason that those races are designated URM is that they represent a large portion of the United States population and they are "under-represented" in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers. URM boosts attempt to bring those races up to enrollment numbers on par with their percentage of the overall national population.


So from what I gather from your post- the reason Arabs aren't URMs is because there aren't that many of them in the country, so it's not really worth it try increase their representation in law school (since they cannot be truly underrepresented, "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers", if their aren't that many in the country). So then why are Native American's URMs? .. There's not really many of them left in the country (i.e. their "overall population" in the country is so low that they can't be truly underrepresented "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers").

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pu_golf88
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby pu_golf88 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:14 pm

So I've got a quick question that I didn't think needed a new forum for.

One of my roommates is applying to law school now and he's 3 ethnicities: Mexican, Indian (Asian), and Caucasian. Will he get the same URM boost as other URMs? I was thinking it wouldn't be very big since two of his ethnicities aren't URMs.

02082010
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby 02082010 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:26 pm

pu_golf88 wrote:So I've got a quick question that I didn't think needed a new forum for.

One of my roommates is applying to law school now and he's 3 ethnicities: Mexican, Indian (Asian), and Caucasian. Will he get the same URM boost as other URMs? I was thinking it wouldn't be very big since two of his ethnicities aren't URMs.


If I were him, I'd just put mexican and white or mexican and indian. he'll get a boost.

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Sakura3210
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Sakura3210 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:19 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
So from what I gather from your post- the reason Arabs aren't URMs is because there aren't that many of them in the country, so it's not really worth it try increase their representation in law school (since they cannot be truly underrepresented, "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers", if their aren't that many in the country). So then why are Native American's URMs? .. There's not really many of them left in the country (i.e. their "overall population" in the country is so low that they can't be truly underrepresented "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers").


-It's also that the URM groups are ones that have been disproportionately discriminated against in this country for a long time, resulting in an uneven "playing field". If generations of your family were kept from attending college, getting good jobs, etc., chances are you've had to work harder to be successful than the individual who's family never had to face systematic opression.

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roguey
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby roguey » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:43 am

I know that I am not a minority, but I think I would be considered a non-traditional student at least. I am wondering though if I need to write a diversity statement since I was raised by a single mother who worked two to three jobs after my father died while serving in the Navy. I have been out of school several years because I needed to work to help support my mom and sister. Does this count at all? I was a Spanish teacher, but I don't feel comfortable fudging by clicking the "hispanic" button even though I could fake it.

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Sakura3210
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Sakura3210 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:19 am

roguey wrote:but I don't feel comfortable fudging by clicking the "hispanic" button even though I could fake it.


Good for you for not faking it!

As for your question, yes, you most certainly should write a diversity statement. A DS is not only for people of different race; anyone who feels they are unique for whatever reason (and working for several years counts!) can write one. Good luck! :D

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roguey
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby roguey » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:41 am

Well, my name is not very hispanic sounding and neither are the names of my parents, we all look very Scandinavian & British, but I lived in Spain, so I can do the accent! Anyway, thank you for the advice. I wanted to make sure I "added to the diversity" of the law schools before I decided to write a diversity statement. I kinda wanted to make sure I knew exactly what they meant or if it is a soft category where the totality of the circumstances is taken into account. Thank you for your help!!!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:07 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:So from what I gather from your post- the reason Arabs aren't URMs is because there aren't that many of them in the country, so it's not really worth it try increase their representation in law school (since they cannot be truly underrepresented, "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers", if their aren't that many in the country). So then why are Native American's URMs? .. There's not really many of them left in the country (i.e. their "overall population" in the country is so low that they can't be truly underrepresented "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers").


There are close to three million "registered" Native Americans currently living in the United States. That's 1% of the overall population, a large enough size to warrant measuring against enrollment numbers. However, there are also approximately 3 million Arab-Americans living in the United States, also 1%. So why are Native Americans given preferential treatment when Arabs are not, given that they are the same overall population size?

I found this website (LinkRemoved) which tries to dispel myths about Arab-Americans. It says that 36% of Arab-Americans aged 25 or older have earned at least a bachelor's degree. That compares favorably to the white population over 25, where 29% of whites born in the United States have earned at least a bachelor's degree. Given that, it appears that Arab-Americans are not "under-represented" in academia in the United States.

To contrast this further, 48% of Asian-Americans over 25 who were born in the United States have received at least a bachelor's degree. Clearly Asian-Americans are not "under-represented" in academia; they are in fact over-represented compared to whites, which are usually used as the baseline since they are the largest population. This is why people say that Asians are not URMs; they are minorities, but they are clearly not under-represented.

To contrast this, only 11% of Native Americans over 25 who were born in the United States have received at least a bachelor's degree. Clearly they're not as well-represented in academia as whites, Asians, or Arabs. They're represented even more poorly than the black population, where only 14% of blacks over 25 born in this country have received a bachelor's degree.

It appears that the line for "under-represented minority" is drawn somewhere below the white representation, which is currently 29% of those over 25. Blacks fall well below this percentage threshold, as do Hispanic/Latino students (though the numbers there vary widely if you break them down by national origin). Native Americans also fall well below this threshold. Arab-Americans do not.

This is one possible explanation for why Native Americans receive URM treatment and Arab-Americans don't.

The other is that the US Census Bureau does not appear to have data on "Arab" populations at all; I'm looking at a chart of numbers from the 2000 US Census and it doesn't list Arab-American population at all. They may be represented under the "some other race" category. In that case it may simply be that schools do not give Arab-Americans representation because there is no official government data stating that they are a disadvantaged race in terms of education level.

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SocialWorkGal
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby SocialWorkGal » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:27 pm

I've always identified as being Caucasian/White, but my great-great-grandmother on my father's side was African American. All of my other family members are either Caucasian or Mixed (African American + Caucasian).

I'm concerned that because I haven't identified as being African American or Mixed on any other documentation (for my university) that I am not considered a URM.

Am I a URM?

amichig
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby amichig » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:42 pm

SocialWorkGal wrote:I've always identified as being Caucasian/White, but my great-great-grandmother on my father's side was African American. All of my other family members are either Caucasian or Mixed (African American + Caucasian).

I'm concerned that because I haven't identified as being African American or Mixed on any other documentation (for my university) that I am not considered a URM.

Am I a URM?



No, not at all. Would you ever feel comfortable as a part of an African American student org, do you think your story and history compares to other URMs - I would bet, no. Seriously people on this site have no shame. You said you identify as White - you are not a URM.

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kn6542
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby kn6542 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:14 pm

fancifulthings wrote:I don't know. I consider myself to be multi-cultural. I feel really privileged to multiracial actually. So does that make me not the target of the "URM" status?

I mean, self-identification important? I know a lot of people who identify better with cultures that are not their ethnicity.

I'm just confused as to whether I should consider myself a URM for the law school applications

You can often check more than one box. So, do that.

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Gwen
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Gwen » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:21 pm

I identify as caucasian but I can do the jerk and my best friend is black, am I a urm?

r6_philly
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby r6_philly » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:11 am

Can I be URM if my son is URM?

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Drake014
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Drake014 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:39 am

r6_philly wrote:Can I be URM if my son is URM?


And if so, if my son is white, does that mean I'm no longer a URM?

r6_philly
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby r6_philly » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:36 am

lol if you are URM, your son can't be white...

Everyone who is legally and biologically related to me in this country is URM, does that make me URM?

r6_philly
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby r6_philly » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:48 am

I also got another one:

Penn's application asks "Please check one or more of the following groups and subsequent background identification (if known) in which you consider yourself a member".

so define "background identification". How does one define group membership by background identification? If the criteria to a URM group is NOT looking in the mirror and check one's skin color, then what is it? Family make up? Social network make up? Cultrural identity? So if a person possess everything a URM possesses EXCEPT for the skin color, can that person check off a URM box on Penn's application?

I can't get a clear consensus with my wife and the rest of the family, just want to expand the sample pool a bit. :mrgreen:

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:45 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:So from what I gather from your post- the reason Arabs aren't URMs is because there aren't that many of them in the country, so it's not really worth it try increase their representation in law school (since they cannot be truly underrepresented, "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers", if their aren't that many in the country). So then why are Native American's URMs? .. There's not really many of them left in the country (i.e. their "overall population" in the country is so low that they can't be truly underrepresented "in academic enrollment compared to their overall population numbers").


There are close to three million "registered" Native Americans currently living in the United States. That's 1% of the overall population, a large enough size to warrant measuring against enrollment numbers. However, there are also approximately 3 million Arab-Americans living in the United States, also 1%. So why are Native Americans given preferential treatment when Arabs are not, given that they are the same overall population size?

I found this website (LinkRemoved) which tries to dispel myths about Arab-Americans. It says that 36% of Arab-Americans aged 25 or older have earned at least a bachelor's degree. That compares favorably to the white population over 25, where 29% of whites born in the United States have earned at least a bachelor's degree. Given that, it appears that Arab-Americans are not "under-represented" in academia in the United States.

To contrast this further, 48% of Asian-Americans over 25 who were born in the United States have received at least a bachelor's degree. Clearly Asian-Americans are not "under-represented" in academia; they are in fact over-represented compared to whites, which are usually used as the baseline since they are the largest population. This is why people say that Asians are not URMs; they are minorities, but they are clearly not under-represented.

To contrast this, only 11% of Native Americans over 25 who were born in the United States have received at least a bachelor's degree. Clearly they're not as well-represented in academia as whites, Asians, or Arabs. They're represented even more poorly than the black population, where only 14% of blacks over 25 born in this country have received a bachelor's degree.

It appears that the line for "under-represented minority" is drawn somewhere below the white representation, which is currently 29% of those over 25. Blacks fall well below this percentage threshold, as do Hispanic/Latino students (though the numbers there vary widely if you break them down by national origin). Native Americans also fall well below this threshold. Arab-Americans do not.

This is one possible explanation for why Native Americans receive URM treatment and Arab-Americans don't.

The other is that the US Census Bureau does not appear to have data on "Arab" populations at all; I'm looking at a chart of numbers from the 2000 US Census and it doesn't list Arab-American population at all. They may be represented under the "some other race" category. In that case it may simply be that schools do not give Arab-Americans representation because there is no official government data stating that they are a disadvantaged race in terms of education level.


Really great post (and during the finals study period!). Thanks.

Tuyarp
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby Tuyarp » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:15 pm

[/quote]It appears that the line for "under-represented minority" is drawn somewhere below the white representation, which is currently 29% of those over 25. Blacks fall well below this percentage threshold, as do Hispanic/Latino students (though the numbers there vary widely if you break them down by national origin). Native Americans also fall well below this threshold. Arab-Americans do not.[/quote]

If the boost given to Mexican-American and/or PR-American applicants over other Hispanic/Latino applicants is the result of the difference in the broken down numbers, then shouldn't some Asian-American applicants be given some boost as well? Since the numbers vary as well for Asians if you break them down by national origin.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:28 am

Tuyarp wrote:
It appears that the line for "under-represented minority" is drawn somewhere below the white representation, which is currently 29% of those over 25. Blacks fall well below this percentage threshold, as do Hispanic/Latino students (though the numbers there vary widely if you break them down by national origin). Native Americans also fall well below this threshold. Arab-Americans do not.


If the boost given to Mexican-American and/or PR-American applicants over other Hispanic/Latino applicants is the result of the difference in the broken down numbers, then shouldn't some Asian-American applicants be given some boost as well? Since the numbers vary as well for Asians if you break them down by national origin.


I can think of four possible reasons for this:

1) The Asians who are not well-represented in academic admissions may be from groups that do not have significant populations in the United States. Since being "under-represented" is based on a ratio and not raw numbers, there can be very low numbers of certain nationalities without them being "under-represented".

2) There simply isn't enough data. There might not be enough information breaking out Asians into smaller groups (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc.) to measure.

3) There simply isn't enough interest in breaking them out this way. There's an enormous interest in it for Hispanics because Mexican-Americans and Puerto Ricans dwarf the representations of other Hispanic nationalities in the U.S. and those groups want better representation for themselves. However, there probably isn't a group of Asian-Americans dominant enough to demand unique treatment separate from the other groups.

4) Even if broken out into smaller groups, there may not appear to be a group of Asian-Americans that is under-represented substantially enough to warrant specific protection.

I'm on vacation, so I'm not going to spend the time researching and trying to figure out which is the most likely answer. My suspicion, though, is the truth involves more than one of those, probably #2 (lack of data) and #4 (lack of clear under-representation for any single group).

am060459
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Re: Am I a URM???/Is___ race/circumstance considered URM??

Postby am060459 » Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:47 am

"Yes, there are a lot of lawyers. But, there are not a lot of Latino lawyers, African American lawyers, Asian lawyers, Native American lawyers. Minorities are still greatly underrepresented in the legal profession."

http://lsac.org/SpecialInterests/minori ... -to-ls.asp


To promote diversity, law schools actively seek qualified African American, Latino, Asian, and Native American students, as well as other students of color.

http://lsac.org/SpecialInterests/minori ... on-faq.asp


Who are qualified Asians?




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