Odds?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
silkyjohnston
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:52 am

Odds?

Postby silkyjohnston » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:14 pm

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Last edited by silkyjohnston on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

crookedsmile
Posts: 291
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Re: Odds?

Postby crookedsmile » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:22 pm

silkyjohnston wrote:Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Please help me get a sense of where I stand!

URM: Black, Hispanic (specifically, i'm a black immigrant from the Dominican Republic)
GPA: 3.22, ivy undergrad (w/ upward trend: first-year gpa was 2.5; senior year was 3.65)
LSAT: 174
Softs: master's in history @ ivy (4.0; received degree in feb); created and received grants for year-long oral history project during second year of master's; also directed ESL program that provided free classes to ~400 adult immigrants/semester while in undergrad (a 20-25 hr/wk job)

I'm considering blanketing T-14 schools, but is Harvard out of reach? LSAC approved my fee waiver application, so might as well take advantage :)

Thanks!


Go forth and blanket that T14. Your GPA *might* hold you back from certain schools that tend to heavily consider GPA (primarily Yale/SLS) but H will be more willing to play ball because of your Ivy undergrad, upward trend, and fantastic LSAT. Also, if there is any significant reason why your GPA started low and you were able to improve it (family issues/health problems) definitely write an addendum.

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half moon
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Re: Odds?

Postby half moon » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:23 pm

Harvard is a reach, but it may not be out of reach. You probably have a decent shot at CCN though, and should get pretty good money from some lower T14s

eck456
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Re: Odds?

Postby eck456 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:27 pm

silkyjohnston wrote:Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Please help me get a sense of where I stand!

URM: Black, Hispanic (specifically, i'm a black immigrant from the Dominican Republic)
GPA: 3.22, ivy undergrad (w/ upward trend: first-year gpa was 2.5; senior year was 3.65)
LSAT: 174
Softs: master's in history @ ivy (4.0; received degree in feb); created and received grants for year-long oral history project during second year of master's; also directed ESL program that provided free classes to ~400 adult immigrants/semester while in undergrad (a 20-25 hr/wk job)

I'm considering blanketing T-14 schools, but is Harvard out of reach? LSAC approved my fee waiver application, so might as well take advantage :)

Thanks!


I don't think HLS is crazy...my guess is you'd stand a good chance of WL, and the WL moves (if you weren't admitted directly, which I'm not saying you wouldn't be). HLS is big enough they can take one or two low GPAs if they want, and white enough they're actively looking for strong, Ivy-prepped URM candidates (I'm an ex educator/ admissions counselor so we could have a looooong convo about "ivy-prepped" and all that BS, but the logic stands). I'd throw an early application in (Sept/ Oct), wouldn't put all your eggs in the basket but definitely wouldn't assume an auto-reject. I say write your diversity essay explaining your upward GPA trend, extolling your solid grades on your masters and your LSAT score as proof you'll be successful, and you stand a good shot. Harvard also likes to be able to say X percent of their class has another masters and it's one of the highest #s, etc.

Not sure how many years out of undergrad you are, but depending on your goals I'd throw applications at NU, Berkeley, Texas, Duke - in my experience as a non-traditional candidate who's now done 2 cycles (long story, lol), they all really like a story for why you're coming into law, and they all like the upward trajectory story and why your unique skill sets will be beneficial to their incoming class. Those are schools where I saw my "story" get acceptances or $$ that outperformed my #s. I bet Georgetown would also be down, but my experiences with them were weird so I just generally don't recommend that path to people (though it's anecdata, of course). If I had fee wavers and your LSAT score I'd blanket the T-14 and see what shakes out

silkyjohnston
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Re: Odds?

Postby silkyjohnston » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:33 pm

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Last edited by silkyjohnston on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

silkyjohnston
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Re: Odds?

Postby silkyjohnston » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:36 pm

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Last edited by silkyjohnston on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

eck456
Posts: 309
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Re: Odds?

Postby eck456 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:40 pm

silkyjohnston wrote:
eck456 wrote:I don't think HLS is crazy...my guess is you'd stand a good chance of WL, and the WL moves (if you weren't admitted directly, which I'm not saying you wouldn't be). HLS is big enough they can take one or two low GPAs if they want, and white enough they're actively looking for strong, Ivy-prepped URM candidates (I'm an ex educator/ admissions counselor so we could have a looooong convo about "ivy-prepped" and all that BS, but the logic stands). I'd throw an early application in (Sept/ Oct), wouldn't put all your eggs in the basket but definitely wouldn't assume an auto-reject. I say write your diversity essay explaining your upward GPA trend, extolling your solid grades on your masters and your LSAT score as proof you'll be successful, and you stand a good shot. Harvard also likes to be able to say X percent of their class has another masters and it's one of the highest #s, etc.

Not sure how many years out of undergrad you are, but depending on your goals I'd throw applications at NU, Berkeley, Texas, Duke - in my experience as a non-traditional candidate who's now done 2 cycles (long story, lol), they all really like a story for why you're coming into law, and they all like the upward trajectory story and why your unique skill sets will be beneficial to their incoming class. Those are schools where I saw my "story" get acceptances or $$ that outperformed my #s. I bet Georgetown would also be down, but my experiences with them were weird so I just generally don't recommend that path to people (though it's anecdata, of course). If I had fee wavers and your LSAT score I'd blanket the T-14 and see what shakes out


:shock: wow, thanks! And as far as the diversity statement goes, is it kosher to be that explicit about my qualifications (e.g. "my performance on the lsat demonstrates....") or should that stuff be implied?

thanks again for the uplifting feedback :)


I think your LSAT score speaks for itself, personally...but you could mention how the study skills you learned after your freshman year and applied to your higher senior GPA and then your masters benefitted you on the LSAT if you really wanted to...feel free to PM if you have other questions (how else would I put off this paper I'm supposed to be writing...) to clarify I'm not saying you'll definitely get in, but I do think it's worth an application and my guess is if you have strong recommendations and a good essay you'll get into at least a few lower T-14, maybe a CCN and get some $ thrown at you. My GPA is a bit higher and by my LSAT is a bit lower, and that's what I've seen

silkyjohnston
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Re: Odds?

Postby silkyjohnston » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:48 pm

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Last edited by silkyjohnston on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr_Chukes
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Re: Odds?

Postby Mr_Chukes » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:04 pm

silkyjohnston wrote:Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Please help me get a sense of where I stand!

URM: Black, Hispanic (specifically, i'm a black immigrant from the Dominican Republic)
GPA: 3.22, ivy undergrad (w/ upward trend: first-year gpa was 2.5; senior year was 3.65)
LSAT: 174
Softs: master's in history @ ivy (4.0; received degree in feb); created and received grants for year-long oral history project during second year of master's; also directed ESL program that provided free classes to ~400 adult immigrants/semester while in undergrad (a 20-25 hr/wk job)

I'm considering blanketing T-14 schools, but is Harvard out of reach? LSAC approved my fee waiver application, so might as well take advantage :)

Thanks!

God bless you and I hope you apply to yale as well!

theventriloquist
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Odds?

Postby theventriloquist » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Would any of you recommend NU early decision to the OP? Because of the guranteed 150K scholarship? Or do you think, regular decision would get better results?

Alpal29
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Re: Odds?

Postby Alpal29 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:52 pm

theventriloquist wrote:Would any of you recommend NU early decision to the OP? Because of the guranteed 150K scholarship? Or do you think, regular decision would get better results?

Nah, if only because she has a good chance at money at the lower T13 and you don't want to throw away the opportunity to negotiate. If NU was her dream school, sure. Or if her GPA was sub 3.0 to maybe show dedication. But I wouldn't recommend any ED, just apply early and she'll get bites.

theventriloquist
Posts: 154
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Re: Odds?

Postby theventriloquist » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:59 pm

Alpal29 wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:Would any of you recommend NU early decision to the OP? Because of the guranteed 150K scholarship? Or do you think, regular decision would get better results?

Nah, if only because she has a good chance at money at the lower T13 and you don't want to throw away the opportunity to negotiate. If NU was her dream school, sure. Or if her GPA was sub 3.0 to maybe show dedication. But I wouldn't recommend any ED, just apply early and she'll get bites.


But lets say, she wants to minimize her debt. Would you then recommend NU ED, because of the 150K guarantee?

Alpal29
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Re: Odds?

Postby Alpal29 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:03 pm

theventriloquist wrote:
Alpal29 wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:Would any of you recommend NU early decision to the OP? Because of the guranteed 150K scholarship? Or do you think, regular decision would get better results?

Nah, if only because she has a good chance at money at the lower T13 and you don't want to throw away the opportunity to negotiate. If NU was her dream school, sure. Or if her GPA was sub 3.0 to maybe show dedication. But I wouldn't recommend any ED, just apply early and she'll get bites.


But lets say, she wants to minimize her debt. Would you then recommend NU ED, because of the 150K guarantee?


No. Maybe in 2010-11, but the 150k doesn't cover nearly as much as it used to. Tuition is 60k+COL, if you're financing with loans you're still looking at possibly 90k in loans, and that's being super conservative. OPs cycle is going to be unpredictable, but the GPA isn't bad, combined with the URM status they'll likely get better money at the lower T13 (possibly including NU), likely a full ride at WUSTL (unless they decide to be unpredictable).

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lawlzzz
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Re: Odds?

Postby lawlzzz » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:15 pm

silkyjohnston wrote:
eck456 wrote:I don't think HLS is crazy...my guess is you'd stand a good chance of WL, and the WL moves (if you weren't admitted directly, which I'm not saying you wouldn't be). HLS is big enough they can take one or two low GPAs if they want, and white enough they're actively looking for strong, Ivy-prepped URM candidates (I'm an ex educator/ admissions counselor so we could have a looooong convo about "ivy-prepped" and all that BS, but the logic stands). I'd throw an early application in (Sept/ Oct), wouldn't put all your eggs in the basket but definitely wouldn't assume an auto-reject. I say write your diversity essay explaining your upward GPA trend, extolling your solid grades on your masters and your LSAT score as proof you'll be successful, and you stand a good shot. Harvard also likes to be able to say X percent of their class has another masters and it's one of the highest #s, etc.

Not sure how many years out of undergrad you are, but depending on your goals I'd throw applications at NU, Berkeley, Texas, Duke - in my experience as a non-traditional candidate who's now done 2 cycles (long story, lol), they all really like a story for why you're coming into law, and they all like the upward trajectory story and why your unique skill sets will be beneficial to their incoming class. Those are schools where I saw my "story" get acceptances or $$ that outperformed my #s. I bet Georgetown would also be down, but my experiences with them were weird so I just generally don't recommend that path to people (though it's anecdata, of course). If I had fee wavers and your LSAT score I'd blanket the T-14 and see what shakes out


:shock: wow, thanks! And as far as the diversity statement goes, is it kosher to be that explicit about my qualifications (e.g. "my performance on the lsat demonstrates....") or should that stuff be implied?

thanks again for the uplifting feedback :)


I wouldn't waste the diversity statement on explaining your gpa. Write a separate gpa addendum. Then use your diversity statement to highlight other contributions you would bring.

YBF-W
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:06 pm

Re: Odds?

Postby YBF-W » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:30 pm

eck456 wrote:
silkyjohnston wrote:Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Please help me get a sense of where I stand!

URM: Black, Hispanic (specifically, i'm a black immigrant from the Dominican Republic)
GPA: 3.22, ivy undergrad (w/ upward trend: first-year gpa was 2.5; senior year was 3.65)
LSAT: 174
Softs: master's in history @ ivy (4.0; received degree in feb); created and received grants for year-long oral history project during second year of master's; also directed ESL program that provided free classes to ~400 adult immigrants/semester while in undergrad (a 20-25 hr/wk job)

I'm considering blanketing T-14 schools, but is Harvard out of reach? LSAC approved my fee waiver application, so might as well take advantage :)

Thanks!


HLS is big enough they can take one or two low GPAs if they want, and white enough they're actively looking for strong, Ivy-prepped URM candidates (I'm an ex educator/ admissions counselor so we could have a looooong convo about "ivy-prepped" and all that BS, but the logic stands).


There does seem to be a strong advantage to having gone to an ivy undergrad. Tell us more about the implications of being "ivy-prepped" please.

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Drea
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Re: Odds?

Postby Drea » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:30 pm

YBF-W wrote:
eck456 wrote:
silkyjohnston wrote:Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. Please help me get a sense of where I stand!

URM: Black, Hispanic (specifically, i'm a black immigrant from the Dominican Republic)
GPA: 3.22, ivy undergrad (w/ upward trend: first-year gpa was 2.5; senior year was 3.65)
LSAT: 174
Softs: master's in history @ ivy (4.0; received degree in feb); created and received grants for year-long oral history project during second year of master's; also directed ESL program that provided free classes to ~400 adult immigrants/semester while in undergrad (a 20-25 hr/wk job)

I'm considering blanketing T-14 schools, but is Harvard out of reach? LSAC approved my fee waiver application, so might as well take advantage :)

Thanks!


HLS is big enough they can take one or two low GPAs if they want, and white enough they're actively looking for strong, Ivy-prepped URM candidates (I'm an ex educator/ admissions counselor so we could have a looooong convo about "ivy-prepped" and all that BS, but the logic stands).


There does seem to be a strong advantage to having gone to an ivy undergrad. Tell us more about the implications of being "ivy-prepped" please.


In a nutshell, I'd say "ivy prepped" simply indicates to an admissions officer that an applicant attended an institution that's competitive to get into (which says something about their work prior to college) and has a well-established, rigorous curriculum, for the most part. So in that way, this applies beyond the ivy league—see Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, etc.

grades??
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Re: Odds?

Postby grades?? » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:34 pm

theventriloquist wrote:
Alpal29 wrote:
theventriloquist wrote:Would any of you recommend NU early decision to the OP? Because of the guranteed 150K scholarship? Or do you think, regular decision would get better results?

Nah, if only because she has a good chance at money at the lower T13 and you don't want to throw away the opportunity to negotiate. If NU was her dream school, sure. Or if her GPA was sub 3.0 to maybe show dedication. But I wouldn't recommend any ED, just apply early and she'll get bites.


But lets say, she wants to minimize her debt. Would you then recommend NU ED, because of the 150K guarantee?


This thread is suspicious. Either OP and Ventriloquist are the same person, or something else is up. Ventriloquist, you need to stop. Your GPA sucks. You are very unlikely to get Harvard. Out at YS. You will have an unpredictable cycle. This OP is in a much better spot because OP's undergrad and grad GPA don't completely suck as much as yours. Please chill out with everything. Apply broadly.

Same goes for you OP (if you are a different poster). Just apply broadly. You might get H, you might not. You wont get Y, unlikely S. Apply broadly and you will have some good options.




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