AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
HUalumni93
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AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby HUalumni93 » Thu May 19, 2016 11:16 am

Hello I am preparing for the lsat and have a 3.23 GPA. I plan on getting higher than 173on the lsat. Assuming that is the case, what ar my chances of t14(with scholarships

Softs: 3 years as legal intern during undergrad, 1 year work experience as legal support staff both at boutique law firms.

grades??
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby grades?? » Thu May 19, 2016 11:19 am

come back when you get that score. Anything before you get your score is speculation. I hope you get your 175, but do realize that is the top .5 percentile. You can't just plan on getting that score.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby Barack O'Drama » Thu May 19, 2016 11:24 am

I mean everyone is going to tell you to come back when you have an actual score. A lot of people, myself included, asked the forum this question back when I was beginning undergrad a few years back. I thought easily I could snag a 170 and started living as it would be self-fulfilling prophecy. Then I took a diagnostic and got a 157. The LSAT requires a lot of prep, especially for a top 99%-tile score.


To answer your hypothetical:

With a 175 and a 3.23 you can break into the T14 without trouble. You might even be able to get H. Y and S will likely be out, but never know.
That said, for now I would work on getting that GPA up to a 3.5 or as close as you can. And of course, start prepping to kill the LSAT.

HUalumni93
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby HUalumni93 » Thu May 19, 2016 11:27 am

Barack O'Drama wrote:I mean everyone is going to tell you to come back when you have an actual score. A lot of people, myself included, asked the forum this question back when I was beginning undergrad a few years back. I thought easily I could snag a 170 and started living as it would be self-fulfilling prophecy. Then I took a diagnostic and got a 157. The LSAT requires a lot of prep, especially for a top 99%-tile score.


To answer your hypothetical:

With a 175 and a 3.23 you can break into the T14 without trouble. You might even be able to get H. Y and S will likely be out, but never know.
That said, for now I would work on getting that GPA up to a 3.5 or as close as you can. And of course, start prepping to kill the LSAT.



I've already graduated so can't do much with the GPA. I did the math and it would take an extra 27 credits just to bump me to 3.4

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby HUalumni93 » Thu May 19, 2016 11:29 am

Barack O'Drama wrote:I mean everyone is going to tell you to come back when you have an actual score. A lot of people, myself included, asked the forum this question back when I was beginning undergrad a few years back. I thought easily I could snag a 170 and started living as it would be self-fulfilling prophecy. Then I took a diagnostic and got a 157. The LSAT requires a lot of prep, especially for a top 99%-tile score.


To answer your hypothetical:

With a 175 and a 3.23 you can break into the T14 without trouble. You might even be able to get H. Y and S will likely be out, but never know.
That said, for now I would work on getting that GPA up to a 3.5 or as close as you can. And of course, start prepping to kill the LSAT.


Edit I do not believe it will be easy. But I feel like if I give myself 6 months I am fully capable

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby Barack O'Drama » Thu May 19, 2016 11:33 am

HUalumni93 wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:I mean everyone is going to tell you to come back when you have an actual score. A lot of people, myself included, asked the forum this question back when I was beginning undergrad a few years back. I thought easily I could snag a 170 and started living as it would be self-fulfilling prophecy. Then I took a diagnostic and got a 157. The LSAT requires a lot of prep, especially for a top 99%-tile score.


To answer your hypothetical:

With a 175 and a 3.23 you can break into the T14 without trouble. You might even be able to get H. Y and S will likely be out, but never know.
That said, for now I would work on getting that GPA up to a 3.5 or as close as you can. And of course, start prepping to kill the LSAT.


Edit I do not believe it will be easy. But I feel like if I give myself 6 months I am fully capable


Well if the GPA is said and done then the LSAT will be what you gotta focus on.

6 months and I believe you are totally capable and I hope you get it man! Have you taken a diagnostic yet? What was your score? I think if you are anywhere near the low 160s you should be able to. 170s are hard, but 6 months will be ample time. Get the LSAT Trainer, Powerscore bibles, every practice test available. You'll be

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jnwa
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby jnwa » Thu May 19, 2016 12:48 pm

HUalumni93 wrote:Hello I am preparing for the lsat and have a 3.23 GPA. I plan on getting higher than 173on the lsat. Assuming that is the case, what ar my chances of t14(with scholarships

Softs: 3 years as legal intern during undergrad, 1 year work experience as legal support staff both at boutique law firms.


AA male ..Same GPA when i applied and i actually got a 173 ..heres my cycle: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/jnwa ...pm me if you have any questions. Ill add that i was a k-jd but Harvard with 3.23 is highly improbable

MyNameIsntJames
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:24 pm

HUalumni93 wrote:Hello I am preparing for the lsat and have a 3.23 GPA. I plan on getting higher than 173on the lsat. Assuming that is the case, what ar my chances of t14(with scholarships

Softs: 3 years as legal intern during undergrad, 1 year work experience as legal support staff both at boutique law firms.



Anything can happen. Don't listen to anyone here saying what won't because no one really knows. There's so few AA men scoring there that every story is anecdotal

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby L_William_W » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:10 pm

grades?? wrote:come back when you get that score. Anything before you get your score is speculation. I hope you get your 175, but do realize that is the top .5 percentile. You can't just plan on getting that score.


I'm not trying to be a dick, but saying that you plan to get that score is like saying that you plan on bench pressing 500 pounds. Unless it happens, it's just speculation. Do not construe this as me saying that you're incapable of getting that score. Anyone who properly prepares for an exam can get a high score, regardless of their race. And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby PrezRand » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:03 pm

L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:come back when you get that score. Anything before you get your score is speculation. I hope you get your 175, but do realize that is the top .5 percentile. You can't just plan on getting that score.


I'm not trying to be a dick, but saying that you plan to get that score is like saying that you plan on bench pressing 500 pounds. Unless it happens, it's just speculation. Do not construe this as me saying that you're incapable of getting that score. Anyone who properly prepares for an exam can get a high score, regardless of their race. And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.

Uhhhh

rav17
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby rav17 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:13 pm

L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby PrezRand » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:59 pm

rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.

Uhhhhh

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brinicolec
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby brinicolec » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:37 pm

L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:come back when you get that score. Anything before you get your score is speculation. I hope you get your 175, but do realize that is the top .5 percentile. You can't just plan on getting that score.


I'm not trying to be a dick, but saying that you plan to get that score is like saying that you plan on bench pressing 500 pounds. Unless it happens, it's just speculation. Do not construe this as me saying that you're incapable of getting that score. Anyone who properly prepares for an exam can get a high score, regardless of their race. And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


In what world is a 2.5, 173 a shoe-in for Harvard? :?

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:41 am

HUalumni93 wrote:Hello I am preparing for the lsat and have a 3.23 GPA. I plan on getting higher than 173on the lsat. Assuming that is the case, what ar my chances of t14(with scholarships

Softs: 3 years as legal intern during undergrad, 1 year work experience as legal support staff both at boutique law firms.


I haven't even read the rest of this thread but I'm assuming multiple people have already told you to come back when you actually score a 175.

As an AA male, with a 175 and a 3.23 (assuming you score there), just blanket the T-14 and see what happens from there and try to leverage some offers for more $$. Really no telling what amount of scholarship you get. That'll depend on what this year's applicants look like, what time you apply & what that school's budget is looking like. Can't really predict that. I'd imagine acceptances to schools from Columbia on down are pretty plausible in that range.


That being said... This information is 100% useless in the event you don't score 175, so I wouldn't base any law school app decisions on a hypothetical scenario that hasn't occurred yet. Get your score then strategize

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:44 am

rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:48 am

L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:come back when you get that score. Anything before you get your score is speculation. I hope you get your 175, but do realize that is the top .5 percentile. You can't just plan on getting that score.


I'm not trying to be a dick, but saying that you plan to get that score is like saying that you plan on bench pressing 500 pounds. Unless it happens, it's just speculation. Do not construe this as me saying that you're incapable of getting that score. Anyone who properly prepares for an exam can get a high score, regardless of their race. And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.



HYS isn't that desperate for AA URMs... Sub 3.0 is probably an auto ding at every T6 unless you're hovering close to that 3.0 like around 2.8 or something. Even then, you MIGHT grab one.

2.5 is almost insurmountable barring a 180 and that might land you bottom of T14. I think you've seriously overestimated URM boost or you just misunderstand it.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby jnwa » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:51 am

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.


Actual 3.23 173 AA Male here. Dinged at Harvard without a JS1. Got into 8/11 of the other t14s with money(no from Chi,Berk, UVA) so i wasnt a shit candidate. The Harvard floor is most definitely not a 3.2.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:55 am

jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.


Actual 3.23 173 AA Male here. Dinged at Harvard without a JS1. Got into 8/11 of the other t14s with money(no from Chi,Berk, UVA) so i wasnt a shit candidate. The Harvard floor is most definitely not a 3.2.


Another anecdotal story. So because you didn't get in, every single AA with a 3.2 and 173+ wouldn't have gotten in? That's dumb logic. There have been AA with a 3.6 and 170+ dinged from Harvard and there are 4.0 Non-URM that get dinged every year.

You just got dinged, period. There's no guarantee range for HYS, it's just not an auto-no. Conditional situation.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby jnwa » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:04 am

MyNameIsntJames wrote:Another anecdotal story. So because you didn't get in, every single AA with a 3.2 and 173+ wouldn't have gotten in? That's dumb logic. There have been AA with a 3.6 and 170+ dinged from Harvard and there are 4.0 Non-URM that get dinged every year.

You just got dinged, period. There's no guarantee range for HYS, it's just not an auto-no. Conditional situation.


Feel free to continue to shoot down claims that are counter to yours as anecdotes while not supporting any of the claims you make. Where did you discover that the "established" floor for H is a 3.2.

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:24 am

jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:Another anecdotal story. So because you didn't get in, every single AA with a 3.2 and 173+ wouldn't have gotten in? That's dumb logic. There have been AA with a 3.6 and 170+ dinged from Harvard and there are 4.0 Non-URM that get dinged every year.

You just got dinged, period. There's no guarantee range for HYS, it's just not an auto-no. Conditional situation.


Feel free to continue to shoot down claims that are counter to yours as anecdotes while not supporting any of the claims you make. Where did you discover that the "established" floor for H is a 3.2.



I said a "soft" floor of 3.2 & this is an educated guess that was made in the "URM Admissions" sticky in the URM section, so I didn't just pull it out of my ass.

By soft floor, that means maybe, maybe not. Pretty much they might bend there for some, maybe not for others. Once again this is HLS.. No one really knows what's going through their admissions' committee's heads. Hard floor implies that there's a 0% chance in any universe someone gets in at that GPA point & below, and data has proven that that mark is not 3.2 for Harvard. They HAVE admitted 3.2 applicants before & there's not enough URM splitters w sub 3.2 GPA & 175+ LSATs for us to even know if that's the absolute floor or not.

I hope that cleared up some of the discrepancy.

Edit: You also are assuming your GPA screwed you. Who's to say a 175+ wouldn't have gotten you in?

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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby L_William_W » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:46 am

What I said was somewhat of a hyperbole, but practically every minority who scores above 170 can walk into an Ivy (I'm not discussing Fisher vs Texas). And if a person has a 2.5 then chances are, it is VERY unlikely that they'd score over 170.

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jnwa
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby jnwa » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:40 pm

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:Another anecdotal story. So because you didn't get in, every single AA with a 3.2 and 173+ wouldn't have gotten in? That's dumb logic. There have been AA with a 3.6 and 170+ dinged from Harvard and there are 4.0 Non-URM that get dinged every year.

You just got dinged, period. There's no guarantee range for HYS, it's just not an auto-no. Conditional situation.


Feel free to continue to shoot down claims that are counter to yours as anecdotes while not supporting any of the claims you make. Where did you discover that the "established" floor for H is a 3.2.



I said a "soft" floor of 3.2 & this is an educated guess that was made in the "URM Admissions" sticky in the URM section, so I didn't just pull it out of my ass.

By soft floor, that means maybe, maybe not. Pretty much they might bend there for some, maybe not for others. Once again this is HLS.. No one really knows what's going through their admissions' committee's heads. Hard floor implies that there's a 0% chance in any universe someone gets in at that GPA point & below, and data has proven that that mark is not 3.2 for Harvard. They HAVE admitted 3.2 applicants before & there's not enough URM splitters w sub 3.2 GPA & 175+ LSATs for us to even know if that's the absolute floor or not.

I hope that cleared up some of the discrepancy.

Edit: You also are assuming your GPA screwed you. Who's to say a 175+ wouldn't have gotten you in?


I know you have a shit GPA as well and have a vested interest in believing that it wont disqualify you from Harvard, in which case more power to you. But the statistical and anecdotal evidence(check lawschoolnumbers) point to the fact that HYS are much more accepting of high GPAs even when they come with sub sub sub 25th LSATs than the other way around. Theres still lots of great outcomes available for OP.

Harvard's median is 173. The average URM they accept is significantly below that. The 173 wasnt what disqualified me. Im not bitter about it, i just want to give other people accurate advice because i was in the same situation a year ago but youre here, having never gone through the process, spreading bad info.

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oidsedidy
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby oidsedidy » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:53 pm

Why has no one yet advised OP to plan on making a 176? I think, given your post, that is the best advice anyone can give you OP.

rav17
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby rav17 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:22 pm

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.


You can whine and bitch about people trying to cite urm chances, but many people on this forum do it all the time, even for non urm candidates believe it or not (shocker I know!) . There is even a subform dedicated to chances threads and your petulance as well as your indignant sentiments vis-a-vis this phenomenon won't change that. I never said that it was impossible to get into Harvard with a 3.2 gpa. Based on lsn and some other sources, the gpa floor for aa's at Harvard appears to be about a 3.5-3.6. But I never said you absolutely needed to have at least a 3.5-3.6 as demonstrated by the fact that I conceded that are some outliers and that some aa's with sub 3.5 spa's & 170+ lsat scores do get into Harvard. However, you're deluding yourself if you think that happens habitually, or that the number aa's with such stats is even close to the number of aa's that are admitted with gpa's north of 3.5. I mean this is Harvard not Thomas Cooley, get your head out of your ass. The fact is, you're better off with a high gpa and a lower lsat like a 3.8 and a 163, than the reverse, like a 3.3 and a 169. True, Harvard is more forgiving of lower grades than say Stanford and Yale, but they definitely prefer splitters to reverse splitters.

Edit: Just perused through your posts and saw your stats. I surmise that the reason my post elicited such a visceral response from you is because it hurt your feelings, if that's the case that wasn't my intention, LOL.
Last edited by rav17 on Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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downbeat14
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Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby downbeat14 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:05 pm

This thread is awful...

OP, gun it for the LSAT. That gets you the best options available with your GPA, background, whatever. Ignore this site until you have the score (other than content directed at helping you prepare for the exam). No one can predict your options at this stage and if you get the numbers you are striving for (and I hope you do) it's simply too rare of a combination for any meaningful speculation.

/thread




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