NTS, 43, and have a question or 2... Forum

[unlvjeffro]

Hello all,

Figured I would start out by introducing myself, and giving you all a bit of background on me, and my situation, before I ask some questions.

My Name is Jeff, and I am a NTS who is currently finishing up an undergrad in Finance at UNLV and will be finished in December '14. My GPA at graduation, barring a tumor, will be a 3.97 with a 4.0 in my major courses. I am in the top 10% of students in my business school, because I was just invited into Beta Gamma Sigma, which I accepted. I am also a member of The Financial Management Association, The Rebel Investment Group, the Lied Institute of Real Estate Studies mentorship program, and a former member of Enactus/SIFE. I received an AA in Paralegal studies because I wanted to go to LS, and figured it would help. But, in reality, I figured LS was just a pipe dream at my age, and really put it out of my mind.

Well, another NTS buddy of mine, though 10 years my junior, was just accepted this week into UNLV's Boyd School of Law. That information, plus the fact I was studying for my Business Law test on Monday got me thinking about the LSAT and Law School. I decided to go looking for some practice questions and see what I could do.

So, I went on the net, and found the June 2007 "The Official LSAT Prep Test" from LSAC.org. I decided to take it and see how hard the test would be, and if I would even be able to get a score higher than my age. I printed out the test, which included a scantron sheet, set my alarm for 35 minutes for each test, and took all 4 sections. My raw score was a 93, which equals out to a 171 scaled score! I was to say the least, especially since I had not studied for it, nor ever taken this test before. Missed 1 in section I, 2 in section II, 2 in section III, and 2 in section IV, with a couple minutes to spare in each section.

I decided to look for information on LS, I found this forum, started reading, and found that with my GPA/LSAT practice score, which I know I can do a lot better with study time, and the fact I am a NTS, I could potentially have Law School paid for at some pretty good Law Schools!!! my head is now swimming with the possibilities of actually being able to fulfill my dream. I could not afford to go to LS otherwise, as I am already almost 40K in debt for my undergrad.

Is getting a full or even partial scholarship at my age really a possibility with a GPA of 3.97 and an LSAT of 171+?

Is that prep test close to the difficulty of the actual LSAT??? Or, did I just get my hopes up on a test score on a test that is a joke/cake walk compared to the real deal?

And yes I will retake

[ck3]

yes it is possible to get a scholarship at your age. I received several scholarship offers and I am older than 43. It really depends on your LSAT score more than anything else, provided that you have that 3.97 GPA. So just do lots of practice exams under test conditions. Also be aware that you can take the real test more than once and it really won't hurt you. I consistently practiced around 172 but never scored that high on a real test.

Also, I don't know what NTS stands for but I assume it is some sort of minority status. That should help except in California where I think the schools are legally barred from considering minority status when making decisions. Overall I think a substantial scholarship is possible, especially if you apply broadly across the country. If you do score in the 170's on the LSAT, with your GPA you will have great opportunities at the top schools, provided that you are able to move from Nevada.

[sunsheyen]

I'm guessing he means Non Traditional Student.

[BlakcMajikc]

Prob will get more responses if posted elsewhere. Most posters in this forum (including myself) mostly offer advice to traditional URMs.

Hello all,

Figured I would start out by introducing myself, and giving you all a bit of background on me, and my situation, before I ask some questions.

My Name is Jeff, and I am a NTS who is currently finishing up an undergrad in Finance at UNLV and will be finished in December '14. My GPA at graduation, barring a tumor, will be a 3.97 with a 4.0 in my major courses. I am in the top 10% of students in my business school, because I was just invited into Beta Gamma Sigma, which I accepted. I am also a member of The Financial Management Association, The Rebel Investment Group, the Lied Institute of Real Estate Studies mentorship program, and a former member of Enactus/SIFE. I received an AA in Paralegal studies because I wanted to go to LS, and figured it would help. But, in reality, I figured LS was just a pipe dream at my age, and really put it out of my mind.

Well, another NTS buddy of mine, though 10 years my junior, was just accepted this week into UNLV's Boyd School of Law. That information, plus the fact I was studying for my Business Law test on Monday got me thinking about the LSAT and Law School. I decided to go looking for some practice questions and see what I could do.

So, I went on the net, and found the June 2007 "The Official LSAT Prep Test" from LSAC.org. I decided to take it and see how hard the test would be, and if I would even be able to get a score higher than my age. I printed out the test, which included a scantron sheet, set my alarm for 35 minutes for each test, and took all 4 sections. My raw score was a 93, which equals out to a 171 scaled score! I was to say the least, especially since I had not studied for it, nor ever taken this test before. Missed 1 in section I, 2 in section II, 2 in section III, and 2 in section IV, with a couple minutes to spare in each section.

I decided to look for information on LS, I found this forum, started reading, and found that with my GPA/LSAT practice score, which I know I can do a lot better with study time, and the fact I am a NTS, I could potentially have Law School paid for at some pretty good Law Schools!!! my head is now swimming with the possibilities of actually being able to fulfill my dream. I could not afford to go to LS otherwise, as I am already almost 40K in debt for my undergrad.

Is getting a full or even partial scholarship at my age really a possibility with a GPA of 3.97 and an LSAT of 171+?

Is that prep test close to the difficulty of the actual LSAT??? Or, did I just get my hopes up on a test score on a test that is a joke/cake walk compared to the real deal?

And yes I will retake

[unlvjeffro]

BlakcMajikc- Yes, I am seeing that unfold, and thanks. I really wasn't sure where to put this diatribe.
sunsheyen- yes, NTS= Non Traditional Student

ck3- thanks, and not sure where you sit in the matrix: L1, L2, or attorney, but have a question for you? Have you found any age discrimination when it comes to job prospects? or with a good ranking out of a T14 school, will age matter as much, in your opinion?

thanks to all

[sunsheyen]

Is getting a full or even partial scholarship at my age really a possibility with a GPA of 3.97 and an LSAT of 171+?

Is that prep test close to the difficulty of the actual LSAT??? Or, did I just get my hopes up on a test score on a test that is a joke/cake walk compared to the real deal?

And yes I will retake

I submitted some apps this year, pretty late. I am late thirties, F URM, 2.2, 167. I had some difficulties in college. The LSAT score is from three years ago. I have been waitlisted at UVA and William & Mary and was accepted at Richmond with a 90k scholarship. I'm certain you can do very well, provided you are able to test at the level your practice test indicates. I'm likely sitting out this cycle and have begun study for my retake. Your work experience combined with gpa and hopefully a great lsat will make you very valuable. i would definitely expect large scholarships for you.

[ck3]

ck3- thanks, and not sure where you sit in the matrix: L1, L2, or attorney, but have a question for you? Have you found any age discrimination when it comes to job prospects? or with a good ranking out of a T14 school, will age matter as much, in your opinion?

I am a 1L and I attend a school ranked in the high 20's. No matter what your situation I would say the top 2 determinants of successfully acquiring a job are which law school did you attend and your grades. Top 14 schools seem to be better at placement across the board. Although some schools outside the top 14 are pretty good at placement also.

Next is connections. The Grace of God has worked for me thru connections because my first semester grades were not that good but I have a lot of work experience and a lot of experience with interviews so I think that I am more comfortable than most in an interview. I get a lot of interview questions that are not about law but about my past work experience and why I chose to go to law school so late in life. Anyway, thru a diversity program I was able to get some interviews with firms and corporations and I had a contact in one of those corporations and that is how I got my 1L summer job. Thank you Jesus!!!!

I think that firms will be somewhat reluctant to hire people over 40 as first year associates but I can't say that for sure. I was not successful in getting any firm interviews thru 1l OCI at my school, but I think that was more grades than age. I have the same concerns as you, but it is hard to say, because just like the issue of race, people don't come out and tell you that they are refusing to consider or hire you because of your age.

I think it would be a good idea to speak to the career services people at every school that you are considering and ask them about their specific experience in placing older students.

I would also consider George Washington University. Because they have a big part-time program, they probably have a history of placing older students who have been or are still in the working world. I got a really good offer from GW but I was reluctant to move to DC because I would have had to sell or rent my house.

Also, consider regional schools that place well in their region. You may get full scholarship from those schools and that may make them a better choice than T14 schools because of the decreased debt. However, if your goal is big law or bust, then you may still want to go with a T14 school just to increase your chances of getting big law. If you do choose a regional school, then focus on getting top grades because said school may only place 15 to 20 percent into big law. Use resources like other students who have taken your professors. There is a lot of good info on Top Law Schools site for getting good grades. Read Getting to Maybe. Also, increase your typing speed. It is important.

Also, I think appearance is big issue related to age. Your date of birth on your employment application will tell an employer your age, but the person interviewing you will judge your age by your appearance. I am almost 50 but I am blessed to not have any gray hair on my head so I can appear to be late 30's early 40's. My beard is very gray so I always shave. May sound strange but I think this helps. When people at the mixers and networking events see you, you want them to think experienced, not old.

Sorry to be so wordy. You can't control your age but you work really hard and efficiently in order to give yourself the best chance of getting good grades.

You can send me a personal message if you have more specific questions. I may not respond until after May 8.

Blessings to you.

[NonTradHealthLaw]

Congrats on thinking about taking the plunge. That's a huge step. Spend some time researching how each school handles non-traditional students (i.e., those above 30, not those with 2 years of work experience). Some are much better than others.

I'm graduating this year at 35. As other posters have said, age discrimination is less noticeable than low grade discrimination. In fact, I truly believe I got my job because I am more "seasoned." There is something to be said for someone who knows how put in an honest day's work. Further, your age is not something you can change. So, by not making a big deal about it, neither will employers. And if they do, there's nothing you can do about it (other than file an ADEA claim).

That's a helluva GPA. Knock your LSAT out of the park and you have a wide open oyster shell of possibilities.

[unlvjeffro]

ck3, No, I am not big law or bust, I would like to be in the DA's office, but so do a lot of people. I am not really gunning for the big law prestige. I just love the law, I received my AA in paralegal studies, and that got me hooked on the law.

nontradhealthlaw: thanks, I look mid 30's, but a bit out of shape, so I will be fixing that this summer and should take a few years off me. congratulations and good luck with your graduation.