Why your app is being held if you're an AA

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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Brettanomyces
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby Brettanomyces » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:41 pm

MoMettaMonk wrote:So to compile what everyone's said in the last few posts we know of at least:

1 179
1 178/79
1 174 (Musharraf said that he actually has a 165 and is retaking to hit his PT average)
2 173

and these are only people who have posted on TLS.



Edit: I'm feeling inferior.
Last edited by Brettanomyces on Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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midnight_circus
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby midnight_circus » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:54 pm

Brettanomyces wrote:
MoMettaMonk wrote:So to compile what everyone's said in the last few posts we know of at least:

1 179
1 178/79
1 174 (Musharraf said that he actually has a 165 and is retaking to hit his PT average)
2 173

and these are only people who have posted on TLS.



I have a 170.



And I'm feeling inferior.


You shouldn't! A 170 is a stellar score and you should be proud of it. I'm pretty sure at that point you're even immune from the incessant "retake" chorus. :) Congrats.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby MoMettaMonk » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:54 pm

midnight_circus wrote:Well I feel special. :oops:
I will say though that mac2013, the 178, & I are are all 1/2 AA. I have no idea if they checked another box in addition to AA, but I did. Which means, according to twenty's info on Althone's thread, we won't being counted in these AA statistics, which might partially explain the seemingly-misrepresentative proliferation.


That does seem to explain it. The mean for people who claim multiple ethnicities is about 8 points higher than for people who say that they are solely AA.

Also the link from TPM's thread to the LSAC raw data is broken, you can find it by googling "LSAT Scores by Race." The first link is the download.

mac2013
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby mac2013 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:32 am

MoMettaMonk wrote:
midnight_circus wrote:Well I feel special. :oops:
I will say though that mac2013, the 178, & I are are all 1/2 AA. I have no idea if they checked another box in addition to AA, but I did. Which means, according to twenty's info on Althone's thread, we won't being counted in these AA statistics, which might partially explain the seemingly-misrepresentative proliferation.


That does seem to explain it. The mean for people who claim multiple ethnicities is about 8 points higher than for people who say that they are solely AA.

Also the link from TPM's thread to the LSAC raw data is broken, you can find it by googling "LSAT Scores by Race." The first link is the download.



Yea I always check both boxes

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teampeeta
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby teampeeta » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:17 pm

midnight_circus wrote:
Brettanomyces wrote:
MoMettaMonk wrote:So to compile what everyone's said in the last few posts we know of at least:

1 179
1 178/79
1 174 (Musharraf said that he actually has a 165 and is retaking to hit his PT average)
2 173

and these are only people who have posted on TLS.



I have a 170.



And I'm feeling inferior.


You shouldn't! A 170 is a stellar score and you should be proud of it. I'm pretty sure at that point you're even immune from the incessant "retake" chorus. :) Congrats.


That's sweet even if it's coming from the girl with a 179.

As far as this 170+ proliferation goes, I feel like it's even worse that the 1/2 AA people who check both boxes aren't included in the statistics. I think you count as AA for law school purposes if you check the AA box at all. Not including the 1/2 AAs when law schools make no distinction gives people an inaccurate idea of where they stand. How are you supposed to know how your score stacks up against others of your race if a significant number of people from your race aren't being counted? SMH.

Do you think the top 14 schools are going to say, no, this person is 1/2 AA so they aren't diverse and shouldn't get the boost? The chances of that happening are, like, less than zero. Schools going to take the most compelling applicants who can be counted as enhancing the diversity of their law school class.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby MoMettaMonk » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:29 pm

teampeeta wrote:
That's sweet even if it's coming from the girl with a 179.

As far as this 170+ proliferation goes, I feel like it's even worse that the 1/2 AA people who check both boxes aren't included in the statistics. I think you count as AA for law school purposes if you check the AA box at all. Not including the 1/2 AAs when law schools make no distinction gives people an inaccurate idea of where they stand. How are you supposed to know how your score stacks up against others of your race if a significant number of people from your race aren't being counted? SMH.

Do you think the top 14 schools are going to say, no, this person is 1/2 AA so they aren't diverse and shouldn't get the boost? The chances of that happening are, like, less than zero. Schools going to take the most compelling applicants who can be counted as enhancing the diversity of their law school class.


Here's the real problem: there are thousands of people who check two or more races, but there is no way to tell which two races, or to break down the data any further. As far as I can tell, most people who now select two or more races were in the past selecting "other" as there race. My assumption is that there are relatively few part AA in that group, or if that group is primarily URM they're not getting the full expected bump. I say this because the number of expected scores of various URM groups seem to match up with the amount of those groups enrolled in the t14 schools.

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midnight_circus
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby midnight_circus » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:42 pm

MoMettaMonk wrote:
teampeeta wrote:
That's sweet even if it's coming from the girl with a 179.

As far as this 170+ proliferation goes, I feel like it's even worse that the 1/2 AA people who check both boxes aren't included in the statistics. I think you count as AA for law school purposes if you check the AA box at all. Not including the 1/2 AAs when law schools make no distinction gives people an inaccurate idea of where they stand. How are you supposed to know how your score stacks up against others of your race if a significant number of people from your race aren't being counted? SMH.

Do you think the top 14 schools are going to say, no, this person is 1/2 AA so they aren't diverse and shouldn't get the boost? The chances of that happening are, like, less than zero. Schools going to take the most compelling applicants who can be counted as enhancing the diversity of their law school class.


Here's the real problem: there are thousands of people who check two or more races, but there is no way to tell which two races, or to break down the data any further. As far as I can tell, most people who now select two or more races were in the past selecting "other" as there race. My assumption is that there are relatively few part AA in that group, or if that group is primarily URM they're not getting the full expected bump. I say this because the number of expected scores of various URM groups seem to match up with the amount of those groups enrolled in the t14 schools.


So in Spivey & KB's FAQ thread, this point was addressed. Part AA should be getting the bump (no one knows if it is "full," or what that would precisely amount to). And they might be being counted in the school's stats.
Karen says:
I'll chime in here with a few points that I hope will help clarify:
--> Schools can report things differently than the ABA breakdown for marketing purposes without manipulating real numbers/people. For example, they can include all of the "two or more" races in with a broader "students of color" percentage. Or they can identify the number of Native Americans on their website by including all that checked that box (even if they checked other boxes). So, there is some benefit strictly on a numbers reporting basis.
--> It actually matters to an admissions officer beyond the numbers reporting who the individual is and what they can bring to the classroom and the community. The 'bump' motive is not solely based on what the admissions office can report.


I think that's pretty reassuring. :)

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby MoMettaMonk » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:54 pm

From an admissions standpoint, I think the point that KB made is about all that we need to know. From an intellectual curiosity/wanting the full picture standpoint I really wish they released the raw data every so often.

staples88
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby staples88 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:50 am

MoMettaMonk wrote:From an admissions standpoint, I think the point that KB made is about all that we need to know. From an intellectual curiosity/wanting the full picture standpoint I really wish they released the raw data every so often.


so what does this mean...check more than 1 if you're more than 1 and don't worry about it? is that what everyone here is doing?

californiauser
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby californiauser » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:01 am

staples88 wrote:
MoMettaMonk wrote:From an admissions standpoint, I think the point that KB made is about all that we need to know. From an intellectual curiosity/wanting the full picture standpoint I really wish they released the raw data every so often.


so what does this mean...check more than 1 if you're more than 1 and don't worry about it? is that what everyone here is doing?


check what you are; race isn't subjective

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applelover
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Re: Why your app is being held if you're an AA

Postby applelover » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:59 pm

staples88 wrote:
MoMettaMonk wrote:From an admissions standpoint, I think the point that KB made is about all that we need to know. From an intellectual curiosity/wanting the full picture standpoint I really wish they released the raw data every so often.


so what does this mean...check more than 1 if you're more than 1 and don't worry about it? is that what everyone here is doing?

Yea.




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