Lying on URM survey

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
mana111
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Lying on URM survey

Postby mana111 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:22 pm

My friend is too afraid to post on this site because the question is unethical so I will just ask it for him.

Basically, he is a 3rd generation Mexican American male. He lived his whole life in a northern American city with a sizable native population and his name doesn't sound Mexican at all but is very native-Americanish. Also, he is not a white Mexican but a native Mexican so most people won't be able to tell him apart from the American Natives. His lsat is 169 and his GPA is 3.68 majoring in IR. He understands that the urm boost which he will receive is very insignificant and probably not enough to get him into HYS but if he were to impersonate as a person of native American heritages without tribal affiliations than he will almost be guaranteed a spot at Yale as he will probably be one of the highest scoring NAs this cycle. So, he would like to know whether law schools actively search for a candidate's true ethnicity beyond the self-reported survey or if the possibility of schools catching lies on URM status is significant.

poke800ash
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby poke800ash » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:23 pm

General rule is you should never lie on applications.

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wiz
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby wiz » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:28 pm

mana111 wrote:My friend is too afraid to post on this site because the question is unethical so I will just ask it for him.

Basically, he is a 3rd generation Mexican American male. He lived his whole life in a northern American city with a sizable native population and his name doesn't sound Mexican at all but is very native-Americanish. Also, he is not a white Mexican but a native Mexican so most people won't be able to tell him apart from the American Natives. His lsat is 169 and his GPA is 3.68 majoring in IR. He understands that the urm boost which he will receive is very insignificant and probably not enough to get him into HYS but if he were to impersonate as a person of native American heritages without tribal affiliations than he will almost be guaranteed a spot at Yale as he will probably be one of the highest scoring NAs this cycle. So, he would like to know whether law schools actively search for a candidate's true ethnicity beyond the self-reported survey or if the possibility of schools catching lies on URM status is significant.


Your "friend" will already receive a boost for being MA. I don't think "he" will be classified as NA anyway without proof of tribal affiliation.

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Clearly
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby Clearly » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:32 pm

Don't even think of doing this.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:34 pm

Don't do this. Do not do this. Your friend might not have to take a blood test or provide a full genealogy, but if someone did find out the shit would hit the fan. The C&F portion of getting admitted to the bar is incredibly thorough, and one of the few things that will almost certainly disqualify you is if they find out that you lied on your law school application.

Just in case you didn't quite get the message for your friend. DO NOT DO THIS.
Last edited by MoMettaMonk on Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hephaestus
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby hephaestus » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:35 pm

Clearly wrote:Don't even think of doing this.

I agree. This is a horrible idea for your "friend."

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prezidentv8
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:46 pm

Clearly wrote:Don't even think of doing this.


Yeah, that is a stupid ass risk to be taking. Tell your friend not to be a dumbass.

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Lwoods
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby Lwoods » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:54 pm

Never lie. The negative consequences far outweigh the momentary benefits.

But, you said he's native Mexican, and that his name is Native-sounding, not Hispanic. IS he Native American? Maybe just a different tribe than those in his hometown? I'm under the impression that "American" in "Native American" refers to the continent[s], not just the US.
He should nail down his heritage with some certainty.

Regardless, it sounds like his personal demographics and those of his hometown could create a compelling narrative in a DS. (Mexican American with Native name in town with substantial native population, experiencing misplaced prejudices, etc.)

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:10 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren

Yeah, bro. Don't lie. I mean, you will probably end up living in a cardboard box like this person (the Wikipedia page doesn't mention the cardboard box residence, but that's because Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source).

You will have no friends, your family will desert you, and your life will pretty much be over. If Yale finds out, they will TOTALLY be like "you can't go to school here because of your race." You should probably just /self if you decide to check that box.

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twenty
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby twenty » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:41 pm

Google "Dion Alaniz" and realize that your friend is already going to probably get in some degree of trouble for putting down MA now when he didn't put MA down for his job applications and undergrad apps. Putting down NA is setting yourself up for being disbarred.

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:46 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Google "Dion Alaniz" and realize that your friend is already going to probably get in some degree of trouble for putting down MA now when he didn't put MA down for his job applications and undergrad apps. Putting down NA is setting yourself up for being disbarred.


Damn that's one crazy ass story...but yeah tell your friend not to lie about URM status. He already gets a boost being a MA URM.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:04 pm

ImNoScar wrote:
Clearly wrote:Don't even think of doing this.

I agree. This is a horrible idea for your "friend."

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:22 am

Just let him take his scholarship to USC and shut up.

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quakeroats
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:17 am

FattyMcFatFat wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren

Yeah, bro. Don't lie. I mean, you will probably end up living in a cardboard box like this person (the Wikipedia page doesn't mention the cardboard box residence, but that's because Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source).

You will have no friends, your family will desert you, and your life will pretty much be over. If Yale finds out, they will TOTALLY be like "you can't go to school here because of your race." You should probably just /self if you decide to check that box.


Remember what happened to Elizabeth Warren. The truth came out and she... still got elected and no one cares any more. Ethics aside, nothing is likely to happen, assuming you don't mention it outside of your app and run for office. If the app asks for a tribal affiliation and you give a false one they could check, in theory, but I suspect they won't. In general, school's take what they're given vis-a-vis ethnic background without asking questions.

juristhedoctor
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby juristhedoctor » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:51 am

Your "friend" doesn't seem like someone we need in the legal profession. Also, as an American Indian, please don't do this. Attempting ethnic fraud for the purpose of gaining an admissions boost is incredibly insulting to the particular group you seek to imitate.


Some admissions officers browse this site. I hope they will be on the lookout for a K-JD 3.68, 169 "NA" with no tribal affiliation who majored in International Relations and has absolutely nothing genuine to say about the perspective he can bring to the classroom. I'd bet there aren't very many.

nebula666
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby nebula666 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:19 am

Image

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:31 am

nebula666 wrote:Image



Double-funny, since he wasn't Native American either (unless that's the joke you were going for in the first place).

juristhedoctor
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby juristhedoctor » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:42 am

ITT White kids make fun of Native for being upset about ethnic fraud. Classy.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:45 am

juristhedoctor wrote:ITT White kids make fun of Native for being upset about ethnic fraud. Classy.


Who's making fun of you? I wasn't, and I didn't get the impression that Nebula666 was, either.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:46 am

juristhedoctor wrote:ITT White kids make fun of Native for being upset about ethnic fraud. Classy.

I thought the crying-Indian pics were directed at the OP, not at you.

juristhedoctor
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby juristhedoctor » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:48 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
juristhedoctor wrote:ITT White kids make fun of Native for being upset about ethnic fraud. Classy.


Who's making fun of you? I wasn't, and I didn't get the impression that Nebula666 was, either.


If you weren't trying to offend, then I apologize for getting defensive. Posting a crying "Native" after my first post does seem like mocking though.
Last edited by juristhedoctor on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:53 am

juristhedoctor wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
juristhedoctor wrote:ITT White kids make fun of Native for being upset about ethnic fraud. Classy.


Who's making fun of you? I wasn't, and I didn't get the impression that Nebula666 was, either.


If you weren't trying to offend, then I apologize for getting defensive. Posting a crying "Native" after my first post does seem like mocking though.



That's Iron Eyes Cody, the star of a 70s-era PSA about pollution in America. I thought Nebula was following up on your comment about the proposed fraud being insulting to Native Americans with a "here's a sad/disapproving Native American" pic.

I just thought it was extra-funny in the context of the thread, because "Iron Eyes" was actually an Italian who fraudulently claimed to be Native American, and made an acting career out of impersonating Native Americans in over 200 roles - that's why I made my post. That double meaning may well have been Nebula's intention from the start, though.
Last edited by ScottRiqui on Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:54 am

quakeroats wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren

Yeah, bro. Don't lie. I mean, you will probably end up living in a cardboard box like this person (the Wikipedia page doesn't mention the cardboard box residence, but that's because Wikipedia isn't a very reliable source).

You will have no friends, your family will desert you, and your life will pretty much be over. If Yale finds out, they will TOTALLY be like "you can't go to school here because of your race." You should probably just /self if you decide to check that box.


Remember what happened to Elizabeth Warren. The truth came out and she... still got elected and no one cares any more. Ethics aside, nothing is likely to happen, assuming you don't mention it outside of your app and run for office. If the app asks for a tribal affiliation and you give a false one they could check, in theory, but I suspect they won't. In general, school's take what they're given vis-a-vis ethnic background without asking questions.


(That was kind of my point, in case you didn't detect the sarcasm)

Also this:

http://www.linkedin.com/in/dionalaniz

You could end up working at a prestigious law firm and lateraling out to make six figures as a Texas Landman. Poor Dion Alaniz. The horror.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:06 pm

And all that makes it just fine to misrepresent your ethnicity. :roll:

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wiz
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Re: Lying on URM survey

Postby wiz » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:09 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:And all that makes it just fine to misrepresent your ethnicity. :roll:


I don't think anyone is saying it's just fine or ethical.




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