TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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BentleyLittle
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby BentleyLittle » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:12 pm

Dr.Zer0 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:
Dr.Zer0 wrote:OP i think your interpretation of the ABA data for Columbia might be off. The 41 students you are referring to is actually the total number of hispanic males currently enrolled. Instead the number you might want to consider is 35 which is the total number of enrolled hispanics that are 1L's.


Good catch, I'll update later today. Thanks. :)


Hey OP so I decided to compile a list of the # of Hispanics currently enrolled in t-14 and the next three LS after that. Here are the stats:

Yale 14
Harvard 53
Stanford 23
Columbia 25
U Chicago 15
NYU 39
U Penn 16
UVA 12
UC Berkeley 28
U Michigan 21
Duke 15
Northwestern 25
Cornell 22
Georgetown 36
U Texas 58
Vanderbilt 4
UCLA 28

T-14: 316
T-14+: 406

I ran the calculations using my stats (Hispanic/160 LSAT) and figured out my score places me in the 93th percentile with roughly 505 Hispanics ahead of me. Not taking GPA into consideration and if the LSAT was the only factor that determined acceptance, my score would place me out of t-14 and the next three law schools :( .

I did notice the LSAC began incorporating MA test-takers in the Hispanic pool after the 08-09 cycle. I wonder why they made this change and also why they don't include PR test-takers in that same Hispanic pool. In addition, the data the ABA provides is for all Hispanics (MA and PR included). These differences make it difficult for Hispanic applicants to determine their ranking among other Hispanics.

Does anyone know if MA's and PR's still get URM boosts while other Hispanics don't?

Also just out of curiosity OP, what type of URM are you? (I'm guessing some sort of Hispanic)
Oh,and thanks for the awesome post!


Nice work, Zero!

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mandyjay11
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby mandyjay11 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:13 pm

this is great... although the link with the data points to plus in doesnt work anymore so I just googled the spreadsheet found here http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/research/all/tr

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twenty
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby twenty » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:43 pm

Thanks Mandy, I updated the OP. :)

NYC-WVU
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby NYC-WVU » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:37 pm

Sorry, off topic. But I had to address an earlier statement in this thread.
PDaddy wrote:It also means that our colleges and universities are doing a better job of preparing students to pursue (not necessarily to perform) law school work - and maybe grad school work generally - than are the other regions.

In translation, the colleges and universities in the northwest, especially Washington and Oregon, are extremely underrated - and that would have to go double for top northwest schools like the University of Washington and Seattle University.

I would be very surprised if the regional statistics are not substantially correlated to median income. The median household income of Washington, the largest of the three states in this region is quite high, at 56K (over a 3year average). And Oregon, while definitely more "average," is still not "low" at 52K. Alaska has a whopping 60k per household.

Of course, that's not to say that your other quote (below) isn't true. I just think you're giving too much credit to the schools, which probably have fair, rather than underrated, reputations.
PDaddy wrote:The regional statistics prove exactly what I have known all along: that we in the northwest are pretty badass (scores topped only by New England, which has fewer test takers by about 65%).

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Black_Swan
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Black_Swan » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:04 pm

When are stats for 2013 coming out?

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Nova
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Nova » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:10 pm

this should never leave the first page

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BankruptMe
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby BankruptMe » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:46 pm

so what happens to the 141 LSAT Average AA's?

Do they just not go to law school at all?

californiauser
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby californiauser » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:49 pm

BankruptMe wrote:so what happens to the 141 LSAT Average AA's?

Do they just not go to law school at all?


They go to TTTs. Cooley has 300+ AAs.

http://www.cooley.edu/publicinformation ... mation.pdf

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BankruptMe
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby BankruptMe » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:00 pm

californiauser wrote:
BankruptMe wrote:so what happens to the 141 LSAT Average AA's?

Do they just not go to law school at all?


They go to TTTs. Cooley has 300+ AAs.

http://www.cooley.edu/publicinformation ... mation.pdf


Even Cooley turns down a lot of applicants. Wow

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:21 pm

Nova wrote:this should never leave the first page

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LSATneurotic
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby LSATneurotic » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:24 am

--
Last edited by LSATneurotic on Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Nova » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:39 am

someone who likes math and wants to do a really helpful project should do 150-175 percentiles for the 4 URM groups


SOMEONE, PLEASE.

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PDaddy
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby PDaddy » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:52 am

NYC-WVU wrote:Sorry, off topic. But I had to address an earlier statement in this thread.
PDaddy wrote:It also means that our colleges and universities are doing a better job of preparing students to pursue (not necessarily to perform) law school work - and maybe grad school work generally - than are the other regions.

In translation, the colleges and universities in the northwest, especially Washington and Oregon, are extremely underrated - and that would have to go double for top northwest schools like the University of Washington and Seattle University.

I would be very surprised if the regional statistics are not substantially correlated to median income. The median household income of Washington, the largest of the three states in this region is quite high, at 56K (over a 3year average). And Oregon, while definitely more "average," is still not "low" at 52K. Alaska has a whopping 60k per household.

Of course, that's not to say that your other quote (below) isn't true. I just think you're giving too much credit to the schools, which probably have fair, rather than underrated, reputations.
PDaddy wrote:The regional statistics prove exactly what I have known all along: that we in the northwest are pretty badass (scores topped only by New England, which has fewer test takers by about 65%).


Great observation. But you neglect to consider the possibility that attendance at the leading northwest schools correlates strongly with median income, which would still make attendance at those schools great markers in the aggregate - especially if you control for the participation of international students. Of course, correlation doesn't equal causation, but it would support the argument that the quality of education at those schools plays at least some part on the performances of northwest students.

Income and college choices are not mutually exclusive, especially when you consider that top public colleges/universities like those in Washington state tend to admit a large number of out-of-state and international students. While good students tend to self-select colleges out of high school - which could play a part in post-grad performance - we can't rule out the impact of spending 4-6 years in an academic environment.
Last edited by PDaddy on Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PDaddy
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby PDaddy » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:55 am

LSATneurotic wrote:As a 170 AA male, this post does wonders for my admissions confidence.


...as it should! Congrats!

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PDaddy
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby PDaddy » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:56 am

BankruptMe wrote:so what happens to the 141 LSAT Average AA's?

Do they just not go to law school at all?


They wind up at schools like Florida Coastal, Thomas Jefferson, Cooley, and Cal Western.

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Nova
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Nova » Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:26 pm

Nova wrote:someone who likes math and wants to do a really helpful project should do 150-175 percentiles for the 4 URM groups


SOMEONE, PLEASE.

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:42 am

Nova wrote:
Nova wrote:someone who likes math and wants to do a really helpful project should do 150-175 percentiles for the 4 URM groups


SOMEONE, PLEASE.


This sounds like an interesting project. But didn't LSAC just merge MA's with Hispanics? If that's the case I don't think you'd be able to do the above for MAs

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Nova
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Nova » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:46 am

Dr.Zer0 wrote: But didn't LSAC just merge MA's with Hispanics? If that's the case I don't think you'd be able to do the above for MAs

whaaaat?

:|

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:56 am

Nova wrote:
Dr.Zer0 wrote: But didn't LSAC just merge MA's with Hispanics? If that's the case I don't think you'd be able to do the above for MAs

whaaaat?

:|


If you look at Table 4A and 4B (pgs 19-20 in doc) of the LSAC doc linked in the OP you'll notice that after the 2008-2009 cycle the Mexican American race/ethnic label disappears and the Hispanic label becomes Hispanic/Latino in the 2009-2010 cycle and onwards.

Buffalo2Sky
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Buffalo2Sky » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:34 pm

The Stats for Puerto Ricans are nothing short of eye opening compared to the other Latinos.

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Nova
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Nova » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:48 pm

Buffalo2Sky wrote:The Stats for Puerto Ricans are nothing short of eye opening compared to the other Latinos.

pretty sure its cause lots are actually from puerto rico, so theyre much less likely to speak english well

Harvette
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Re: TPM's DIY thing to determining LSAT standing among your race

Postby Harvette » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:59 pm

Nova wrote:
Buffalo2Sky wrote:The Stats for Puerto Ricans are nothing short of eye opening compared to the other Latinos.

pretty sure its cause lots are actually from puerto rico, so theyre much less likely to speak english well


Good point. Folks always tend to overlook the significance of language in standardized test performance. And this is also valid for other minority groups, including AA.




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