LSAT Difficulty/learnability

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
AfroJordan23
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Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:09 pm

LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby AfroJordan23 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:16 pm

Just started doing some review for the LSAT, planning on taking it in February. I think I'm a decent test taker, and I want to get at least a 165+ since my GPA is kinda low at 3.1 and I'm hoping to go to a T14. I read somewhere that only like 300 AA males in the WHOLE COUNTRY score above 165, but can it really be that difficult to do well? Basically I'm wondering, why do black people (males in general) struggle to do well on it. Is it due to lack of preparation, or is it something else?

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Clearly
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby Clearly » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:25 pm

AfroJordan23 wrote:Just started doing some review for the LSAT, planning on taking it in February. I think I'm a decent test taker, and I want to get at least a 165+ since my GPA is kinda low at 3.1 and I'm hoping to go to a T14. I read somewhere that only like 300 AA males in the WHOLE COUNTRY score above 165, but can it really be that difficult to do well? Basically I'm wondering, why do black people (males in general) struggle to do well on it. Is it due to lack of preparation, or is it something else?

Not urm so not all that qualified to answer your questions, I just wanted to make sure you know that the feb lsat should be used only to apply the cycle following, as in, get the score back in March, wait 6 months and apply in Sept. It's way too late in the game to use for the same years cycle.

AfroJordan23
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby AfroJordan23 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:38 pm

Yeah I'm aware of that, I've been advised that its much better to enter law school a year out of undergrad as opposed to directly from undergrad. I'm aiming towards the class of 2018, so I'd get my scores back in March and still have the option to take it again in June/Sept if neccessary, but I would strongly prefer to take it just this once lol. I don't think It would be wise to rush trying to take it even in December as I heard that it takes a minimum of 6 months for most people to adequately prepare to do very well i.e. 165+

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Clearly
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby Clearly » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:44 pm

That's a solid plan, it's what I did last year, just making sure you didn't intend to apply this upcoming cycle. Also, while I can't speak as a minority representative, I can tell you the lsat is entirely a learnable test, as long as you leave yourself plenty of time, and are absurdly dedicated.

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Balthy
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby Balthy » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:45 pm

With that GPA, you should aim higher despite being URM.

Athlone McGinnis
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby Athlone McGinnis » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:11 am

AfroJordan23 wrote:Just started doing some review for the LSAT, planning on taking it in February. I think I'm a decent test taker, and I want to get at least a 165+ since my GPA is kinda low at 3.1 and I'm hoping to go to a T14. I read somewhere that only like 300 AA males in the WHOLE COUNTRY score above 165, but can it really be that difficult to do well?


300? LOL

Divide that number by ten or so and you'll have a vastly more accurate figure. There are nowhere near 300 AA males pulling 165 of greater in any given year. The statistics for the class that entered in Fall 2012 show us that there were less than 200 AAs altogether (including females here) who managed a 159 or above, and there were just around 21 AA males who managed 165+.

Read this entire thread carefully to get a more realistic view of Black Law School Numbers.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=195443

AfroJordan23
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby AfroJordan23 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:45 am

OMG I had no idea it was that bleak, I personally know 3 black males who scored a 166, a 168, and a 173 lol seriously how the hell is this possible? I think I'm a fairly intelligent person, I went to school with a vast majority of white people all my life, from kindergarten to college. How do they do so much better on this test, I'm actually kind've frightened by these statistics :o

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paglababa
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby paglababa » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:13 am

AfroJordan23 wrote:OMG I had no idea it was that bleak, I personally know 3 black males who scored a 166, a 168, and a 173 lol seriously how the hell is this possible? I think I'm a fairly intelligent person, I went to school with a vast majority of white people all my life, from kindergarten to college. How do they do so much better on this test, I'm actually kind've frightened by these statistics :o


The numbers are what they are because there's just a smaller subset of African Americans who actually take the LSAT and want to become lawyers. Why? A smaller percentage that gets better opportunities through out most of their education, be it highschool, college, of wherever. The core reason for why that is, of course, is rooted much deeper and hence why schools 'even' out the playing field by giving URM boosts.

Anyway, there's no need to be 'frightened' by the numbers. There's no biological disposition to scoring less. You don't think yourself less capable due to race do you? Just study and prep for the LSAT like everyone else on this forum and utilize the advice here. As others have mentioned, you're going to get a boost anyway. If you could get above a 165 as an AA male, and don't have a terrible gpa, HYS are all within pretty good grasp.

AfroJordan23
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby AfroJordan23 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:52 am

Yeah I hear you, I'm gonna prep hard as %$#$ for it lol. What score do you think I would need for a lower T-14 w/ decent money like Georgetown/Cornell?

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:35 am

I would shoot for 165+. Anything lower than that and I'd seriously consider retaking. Have you checked LSN for people around your numbers? There aren't many data points (i.e. people) who are AfAm with your GPA and an LSAT over 160, but 160-165 seems like a sweet spot for money at a lower t14.

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Typhoon24
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby Typhoon24 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:43 pm

nick1 wrote:I decided to run an update for those that are applying for this upcoming cycle. The number of blacks attending T14s has reduced drastically, the numbers below represent the class that entered in Fall 2012.

Yale 16
Harvard 45
Stanford 12
Columbia 23
Chicago 11
NYU 24
Penn 19
UVA 19
Michigan 10
Berkeley 10
Duke 16
Northwestern 11
Cornell 15
Georgetown 44
275

The number of black test takers drastically reduced as well, the data is for LSAT administration that ran through 2011 (JUN) -2012 (FEB). I broke down the total number of test takers as a whole and data for males and females as well. Keep in mind the SDs are unique to each data set so the numbers add up weird. But the data still pretty much tells the same story as the OP.

MALE
4217 test takers

2 above SD (161): 71
2.5 above SD (165): 21
3 above SD (170): 4

FEMALE
7236 test takers
2 above SD(158): 123
2.5 above SD (162): 36
3 above SD (167): 7

TOTAL
11453 test takers

2 above SD (159): 194
2.5 above SD(164): 57
3 above SD(167): 11

Keep in mind that these are very rough numbers and GPA and other factors must be taken into account when we walk about admissions. Also look out for the updated admissions data that will start trickling out in August and September for the class that will be entering this fall. Make sure you are registering for resources like lawschoolnumbers.com as well to add to the information we already have. Good luck in the upcoming cycle!



if you follow this, it's actually far less than 300 aa males that score above 164, so take that as motivation to try your best!

conwaystern
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Re: LSAT Difficulty/learnability

Postby conwaystern » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:40 pm

AA male, scored a 162 my first shot, got into GW no problem.

Probably helped that I was 26 and a military officer, but it's worth considering that trying to game the system will probably end up screwing you up in the end.

Study hard, crush the test, and just apply. The answer is always "no" if you don't at least apply.

Good luck.




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