AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:23 pm

I need some help choosing schools to apply to. Like I said, I'm an AA male, 3.74 UGPA and 161 LSAT. Below is a list of schools that I'm interested in applying to:

Columbia
Chicago
NYU
Duke
Northwestern
Georgetown
Vanderbilt
Washington University in StL
Fordham
UNC - Chapel Hill
Cardozo
Temple
Chicago - Kent, IIT
Brooklyn
Cincinnati

I'm going to be strapped for cash, so I can't apply to ALL of these schools and I also can't afford to retake. I've already gotten fee waivers from a couple of these schools, though. Any suggestions for schools to subtract / add to the list? Any advice on fee waivers?

Any other insights are welcome.
Last edited by blkstl on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
txdude45
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby txdude45 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:31 pm

blkstl wrote:I need some help choosing schools to apply to. Like I said, I'm an AA male, 3.74 UGPA and 161 LSAT. Below is a list of schools that I'm interested in applying to:

Columbia
Chicago
NYU
Duke
Northwestern
Georgetown
Vanderbilt
Washington University in StL (I'm assuming this is your hometown b/c of your handle. If I'm wrong, don't apply here either)
Fordham
UNC - Chapel Hill
Cardozo
Temple
Chicago - Kent, IIT
Brooklyn
Cincinnati


I'm going to be strapped for cash, so I can't apply to ALL of these schools and I also can't afford to retake. I've already gotten fee waivers from a couple of these schools, though. Any suggestions for schools to subtract / add to the list? Any advice on fee waivers?

Any other insights are welcome.

P.S. If it matters at all in this, I'm one year out of undergrad, double majored, multiple non profit legal internships in undergrad, volunteer work and I currently work at a Midwest NLJ 250 firm.


Image

You're gonna be fine at all those schools. I wouldn't apply outside of the T20, with anything sub T-14 being for $$$ opportunities. Unless you have a compelling reason, don't apply to the crossed out schools, even if you have a fee waiver. I can almost guarantee you won't have to go there, so don't waste your time.

If you want to shell out for a retake, 165+ will probably get you into Harvard.

User avatar
clouded.memory
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:26 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby clouded.memory » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:36 pm

You should definitely take a look at Law School Transparency (LST): http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

Some of the schools you have listed have terrible employment prospects and, IMO, are not even worth applying to. For example:
    Temple - "53.1% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs"
    Chicago-Kent - "59.6% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs"
    Brooklyn - "48.7% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs"

If you can, I would definitely try to retake, but you're in a pretty-OK position as is for some of the schools in the T-14, per txdude's graph.

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:38 pm

Sorry, I'm not too sure how to properly respond on this forum. But, St. Louis is my hometown,

Any suggestions for schools to add?
Last edited by blkstl on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
clouded.memory
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:26 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby clouded.memory » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:43 pm

blkstl wrote:Sorry, I'm not too sure how to properly respond on this forum. But, St. Louis is my hometown, Cincinnati is my Alma mater. As stupid as this may sound, I've never had much interest in HYS.

Any suggestions for schools to add?

No worries- your response is just fine. It's okay not to have an interest in HYS, but what it should come down to at the end of the day is your chance at full-time, JD employment (ETA: and hopefully, scholarship $, as well). What about UVA, Michigan, and Cornell? Might you be interested in those schools?

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:52 pm

clouded.memory wrote:
blkstl wrote:Sorry, I'm not too sure how to properly respond on this forum. But, St. Louis is my hometown, Cincinnati is my Alma mater. As stupid as this may sound, I've never had much interest in HYS.

Any suggestions for schools to add?

No worries- your response is just fine. It's okay not to have an interest in HYS, but what it should come down to at the end of the day is your chance at full-time, JD employment (ETA: and hopefully, scholarship $, as well). What about UVA, Michigan, and Cornell? Might you be interested in those schools?




I'm extremely interested in those schools, Michigan is in my neck of the woods. Also, I've seen that Cornell is typically very kind to URMs. But, I'd previously been only focusing on schools in major cities. The thing is, prior to being directed toward this forum, I'd never thought I had a chance at any school in the Top 30. It's a little overwhelming having to rethink your entire approach to the applications process. This is a good problem to have, though...

User avatar
clouded.memory
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:26 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby clouded.memory » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:57 pm

blkstl wrote:
clouded.memory wrote:
blkstl wrote:Sorry, I'm not too sure how to properly respond on this forum. But, St. Louis is my hometown, Cincinnati is my Alma mater. As stupid as this may sound, I've never had much interest in HYS.

Any suggestions for schools to add?

No worries- your response is just fine. It's okay not to have an interest in HYS, but what it should come down to at the end of the day is your chance at full-time, JD employment (ETA: and hopefully, scholarship $, as well). What about UVA, Michigan, and Cornell? Might you be interested in those schools?




I'm extremely interested in those schools, Michigan is in my neck of the woods. Also, I've seen that Cornell is typically very kind to URMs. But, I'd previously been only focusing on schools in major cities. The thing is, prior to being directed toward this forum, I'd never thought I had a chance at any school in the Top 30. It's a little overwhelming having to rethink your entire approach to the applications process. This is a good problem to have, though...

Definitely a good problem to have. You really don't want to sell yourself short!

Also, I think that "rethinking" thing happens for a lot of us. Last year, I didn't even think I'd get into my local state school (Top 30). But the whole application (thankfully) proved me wrong.

User avatar
jetsfan1
Posts: 571
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:14 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby jetsfan1 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:14 pm

First of all, you are in a great position, so congrats on that. That being said, I think you need to seriously be considering a retake. A couple things to consider before you decide anything though.

1) What were your PTs? If you were PTing higher than the 161 you need to retake.
2) If you were not PTing higher, how much effort did you put in? Have you exhausted every resource available to you in order to ensure that your score is the best it can be?
3) Do you enjoy your job? This is less important than the first two, but still, if you end up retaking and take an extra year off, it would be nice to be doing something you enjoy.

Give us some responses to these so we can better help you. I know you say you don't want HYS, but as you said, you came on to these forums not even considering you had a chance there. So think long and hard about that, bc depending on what you want to do, those schools can open a lottttt of doors. Even if you still say you don't want them, the retake can still be the credited response. Right now your about 50/50 at CC, and in at N. If accepted, it seems like there is a solid chance of $. However, a retake would both secure your chances of acceptance here (though I would guess if you apply day 1 your probably gonna get in) and give you much more $.

Anyway, throw us some answers to those questions so we can better help you. You are in a really good spot though, so good luck!!!

User avatar
txdude45
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby txdude45 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:27 pm

If you spend $170 on a retake and score just 4 points higher, you're probably saving yourself $100k somewhere. That seems like a great deal to me, so I think you should register for October. You could probably even take it in December since I doubt many schools will deny an AAm w/ a 3.74/161 and a pending score before then.

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:32 pm

jetsfan1 wrote:First of all, you are in a great position, so congrats on that. That being said, I think you need to seriously be considering a retake. A couple things to consider before you decide anything though.

1) What were your PTs? If you were PTing higher than the 161 you need to retake.
2) If you were not PTing higher, how much effort did you put in? Have you exhausted every resource available to you in order to ensure that your score is the best it can be?
3) Do you enjoy your job? This is less important than the first two, but still, if you end up retaking and take an extra year off, it would be nice to be doing something you enjoy.

Give us some responses to these so we can better help you. I know you say you don't want HYS, but as you said, you came on to these forums not even considering you had a chance there. So think long and hard about that, bc depending on what you want to do, those schools can open a lottttt of doors. Even if you still say you don't want them, the retake can still be the credited response. Right now your about 50/50 at CC, and in at N. If accepted, it seems like there is a solid chance of $. However, a retake would both secure your chances of acceptance here (though I would guess if you apply day 1 your probably gonna get in) and give you much more $.

Anyway, throw us some answers to those questions so we can better help you. You are in a really good spot though, so good luck!!!



I already know this is going to lead to me being convinced to retake.

1. My first PT in February, totally blind (it was one of those free tests Kaplan gives to try and sell classes), I got a 152. I didn't start actually hitting the books until early may. I took a class and was PTing at around a 160, which had always been my target score because like I said, I was only hoping to get into second tier schools in major cities. But, my last proctored, in class practice test was a 165.

2. I took a class at the local university (didn't help much), used 5 different books and took about 7 full tests. Most of my PTs were a little below or above 160, the final one was a 165.

3. I enjoy my job very much so. Learning a lot and making some good connections, but it's not one of those jobs they expect you to stick around long for.

I feel like I could have done better, but I really can't afford a retake and the study materials that would go a long with it. I'm just saving up and preparing to apply in a couple months.

User avatar
clouded.memory
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:26 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby clouded.memory » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:43 pm

Is it possible for you to stay at your job a little longer and save up for a retake?

ETA: I know it's not really what you want to hear, but it seems you haven't quite yet hit your potential. It's about putting yourself in the best possible position, and even just a few more points can equal an increase in scholarship $ that can help you lower the crippling debt you'll owe (plus interest) when you're finally out of school.

ETA2: Sorry if we're being pushy. We just really want to see you do the best you can. :D

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:14 pm

clouded.memory wrote:Is it possible for you to stay at your job a little longer and save up for a retake?

ETA: I know it's not really what you want to hear, but it seems you haven't quite yet hit your potential. It's about putting yourself in the best possible position, and even just a few more points can equal an increase in scholarship $ that can help you lower the crippling debt you'll owe (plus interest) when you're finally out of school.

ETA2: Sorry if we're being pushy. We just really want to see you do the best you can. :D




I know. I know. I've been a bystander long enough on these threads to know that you all are always down with a retake.

I'm just in a really bad place to pay for a retake, pay for study materials, study for the retake, work, prepare applications and pay for applications or take another year off. I very well may decide to retake the LSAT after I get through all of my applications. But, at this time it isn't on the table. I thank you all for your words of encouragement.

Any other thoughts on schools or fee waivers?

User avatar
clouded.memory
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:26 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby clouded.memory » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:21 pm

As far as fee waivers go, I think you'll probably get a few more as time goes on. Last year, I took the LSAT in June, and I was still getting fee waivers through the month of October.

Also, if there is somewhere you want to apply that hasn't already given you a fee waiver, it's never a bad idea to just shoot of an email to admissions and ask for one. Most of the time, I found schools to be very receptive.

PRgradBYU
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:04 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:22 am

txdude45 wrote:If you spend $170 on a retake and score just 4 points higher, you're probably saving yourself $100k somewhere. That seems like a great deal to me, so I think you should register for October. You could probably even take it in December since I doubt many schools will deny an AAm w/ a 3.74/161 and a pending score before then.


+1. You would have a stellar cycle if you hit 165+... all kinds of T14s would be throwing money at you.

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby sparty99 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:41 am

Why the hell did you have Chicago-Kent on your list? I would apply to every school in the Top 25. You will receive substatial scholarships.

User avatar
jetsfan1
Posts: 571
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:14 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby jetsfan1 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:49 am

Also, its important to add that I'm not some guy who aced the LSAT and is on here telling others to retake. I didn't do as well as I had hoped the first time and now I'm taking a year off (or two) to retake. It sucks, but I have to think that in the end it will be worth it.

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:32 pm

PRgradBYU wrote:
txdude45 wrote:If you spend $170 on a retake and score just 4 points higher, you're probably saving yourself $100k somewhere. That seems like a great deal to me, so I think you should register for October. You could probably even take it in December since I doubt many schools will deny an AAm w/ a 3.74/161 and a pending score before then.


+1. You would have a stellar cycle if you hit 165+... all kinds of T14s would be throwing money at you.



My only concern with a retake, besides money, is that my average PTs ended up being exactly what I got on the test. And if I don't hit 165, I don't feel as if a retake would change my cycle too terribly much.

If out of the T14 I applied to:

Harvard
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UVA
Michigan
Duke
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown

Save for Harvard, these are all schools that I'm seriously considering applying to. If I got <165 on a retake, does it seem my acceptances and scholarships would change significantly?

I've looked at myLSN for scores between 161 and 165 and all that it does is extend the range of scores up to 165 and cut the bottom of the range at 161. Pretty much showing me the same figures for applicants with numbers extremely similar to mine.

User avatar
Mojosodope
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:33 am

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby Mojosodope » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:34 pm

blkstl wrote:
PRgradBYU wrote:
txdude45 wrote:If you spend $170 on a retake and score just 4 points higher, you're probably saving yourself $100k somewhere. That seems like a great deal to me, so I think you should register for October. You could probably even take it in December since I doubt many schools will deny an AAm w/ a 3.74/161 and a pending score before then.


+1. You would have a stellar cycle if you hit 165+... all kinds of T14s would be throwing money at you.



My only concern with a retake, besides money, is that my average PTs ended up being exactly what I got on the test. And if I don't hit 165, I don't feel as if a retake would change my cycle too terribly much.

If out of the T14 I applied to:

Harvard
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UVA
Michigan
Duke
Northwestern
Cornell
Georgetown

Save for Harvard, these are all schools that I'm seriously considering applying to. If I got <165 on a retake, does it seem my acceptances and scholarships would change significantly?

I've looked at myLSN for scores between 161 and 165 and all that it does is extend the range of scores up to 165 and cut the bottom of the range at 161. Pretty much showing me the same figures for applicants with numbers extremely similar to mine.


Yes getting a 165+ puts you in a completely different category. There are very few 3.5+ and 165+ AA M candidates.

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:36 pm

I was saying if I got less than or equal to a 165.

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby sparty99 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:47 pm

blkstl wrote:I was saying if I got less than or equal to a 165.


You would be stupid not to retake. I scored less than a 150 and got full ride at a T30.

IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU SCORED A 165 AND HAD A 3.74 GPA. YOU WOULD BE HAILED AS THE NEXT OBAMA.

blkstl
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby blkstl » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:56 pm

sparty99 wrote:
blkstl wrote:I was saying if I got less than or equal to a 165.


You would be stupid not to retake. I scored less than a 150 and got full ride at a T30.

IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU SCORED A 165 AND HAD A 3.74 GPA. YOU WOULD BE HAILED AS THE NEXT OBAMA.



Haha. Let's tap the breaks a little on that one. I understand that getting a 165 would be a game changer for me.

I just want to know if you guys think that getting a 161 (again), 162, 163 or 164 would put me in a much better spot than I'm already at.

Because based upon my PTs for the last exam, it's more likely that I do indeed increase my score, but not get to / over the 165 hump.

I may decide to take it again, but I'm just trying to see where I'm at where I stand today. You know?

User avatar
Mojosodope
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:33 am

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby Mojosodope » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:58 pm

blkstl wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
blkstl wrote:I was saying if I got less than or equal to a 165.


You would be stupid not to retake. I scored less than a 150 and got full ride at a T30.

IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU SCORED A 165 AND HAD A 3.74 GPA. YOU WOULD BE HAILED AS THE NEXT OBAMA.



Haha. Let's tap the breaks a little on that one. I understand that getting a 165 would be a game changer for me.

I just want to know if you guys think that getting a 161 (again), 162, 163 or 164 would put me in a much better spot than I'm already at.

Because based upon my PTs for the last exam, it's more likely that I do indeed increase my score, but not get to / over the 165 hump.

I may decide to take it again, but I'm just trying to see where I'm at where I stand today. You know?


Any increase in score would be worth the time

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:59 pm

retake - get tons of fee waivers at T10 schools - apply to those schools only

User avatar
d330
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:30 am

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby d330 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:57 pm

I'm reluctant to give any advice, as much of what I'll say has been said. Still, here it goes:

You have a 3.74 GPA. It's almost criminal for you to pay for law school. A 161 LSAT will likely have you paying for law school.

Whoever said that 170 dollars for a retake will save you a hundred grand was probably low balling your savings once you put into play that you might end up at Michigan with a Darrow or somewhere else with considerable money and better job prospects.

Most people don't prepare for the LSAT. If you're saying you prepared and that 161 is you, then that's cool and you can still be a stellar lawyer and go to a quality school; however, there are tools that are free that can help you test better. One of the absolute best free tools I used were the 7Sage videos for the logic games. The videos show someone working through all of the logic games from every single test, and watching them talk you through it and still getting them done in a reasonable amount of time both gives you the sense that it's possible and teaches you some tools you might not have. Last cycle I was PTing at like 165-168 before the June test and realized I wasn't focused on study. I decided not to take in June, finally took a self proctored test (5 section instead of the 4 section tests I was doing) and scored like a 154. Blew my mind. I buckled down, started taking 3 five section timed PTs a week and quickly pushed my score up to a 170 PT. So I'm arguing it's possible, and I was working 40 hours a week with small children and family responsibilities.

Anyway, this is long winded - my point is that 3.74 is a damned good GPA and you want it to work for you. PM me if you want specific LSAT advice that I have. Otherwise, good luck and yes, we're pushing you to retake - because some of us have seen folks do extremely well with retakes. But don't take it the wrong way.

PRgradBYU
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:04 pm

Re: AA Male 3.74 and 161 Needs Help Choosing Schools to Apply to

Postby PRgradBYU » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:33 pm

blkstl wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
blkstl wrote:I was saying if I got less than or equal to a 165.


You would be stupid not to retake. I scored less than a 150 and got full ride at a T30.

IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU SCORED A 165 AND HAD A 3.74 GPA. YOU WOULD BE HAILED AS THE NEXT OBAMA.



Haha. Let's tap the breaks a little on that one. I understand that getting a 165 would be a game changer for me.

I just want to know if you guys think that getting a 161 (again), 162, 163 or 164 would put me in a much better spot than I'm already at.

Because based upon my PTs for the last exam, it's more likely that I do indeed increase my score, but not get to / over the 165 hump.

I may decide to take it again, but I'm just trying to see where I'm at where I stand today. You know?


Which section(s) are you struggling with on the LSAT?




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest