Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:03 pm

Hi-
Does applying RD as opposed to ED for URM's severely reduce one's chances of getting into a T14+ school?
In my specific situation, I plan on having all of my applications submitted by late November.

I would like to know if applying in late fall will give other URM's who are applying in September/Early November a significant advantage over me?

I've heard that application cycles for URM's can be very unpredictable and I would like to know if timing plays a role in this (or if timing only adds significantly to this unpredictability if you're applying in January/February).

User avatar
t-14orbust
Posts: 2065
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:43 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby t-14orbust » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:05 pm

LSAT and GPA?

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:07 pm

Applying early isn't as big a boost for URMs as it is for non-URMs. As long as you apply before January, you should be fine.

EDing is also not very beneficial for URMs with decent numbers due to unpredictability and ability to out-perform numbers, then using multiple acceptances to negotiate scholarship money.

So yeah, applying anytime in Fall, RD is usually the way to go for URMs.

User avatar
bosmer88
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:07 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby bosmer88 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:07 pm

While the earlier the better is always good, turning in your applications by Thanksgiving should put you a good position.

What is your LSAT and GPA?

User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:40 pm

Thanks for the quick replies!

A little bit of background:
I'm studying for the LSAT right now and am taking the exam in October (currently scoring in low 160's but am hoping to increase my score)

My GPA is "low". Graduated from a top liberal arts college with a 3.4. I had an upward trend starting second semester junior year (Received a 3.7-3.8 GPA each semester up until graduation)
Last edited by femmefatale on Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:45 pm

If you score above 167 with a 3.4 GPA you'll have a great cycle.

170+ and you're probably looking at H and S.

User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:47 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Applying early isn't as big a boost for URMs as it is for non-URMs. As long as you apply before January, you should be fine.

EDing is also not very beneficial for URMs with decent numbers due to unpredictability and ability to out-perform numbers, then using multiple acceptances to negotiate scholarship money.

So yeah, applying anytime in Fall, RD is usually the way to go for URMs.


Good to know. At this point, I definitely don't plan on applying ED anywhere. I just hope that my numbers are good enough to fall into the "decent" category.

User avatar
unc0mm0n1
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:06 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:24 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:If you score above 167 with a 3.4 GPA you'll have a great cycle.

170+ and you're probably looking at H and S.


Depends on what type of URM but generally this is good advice.

User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:48 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:If you score above 167 with a 3.4 GPA you'll have a great cycle.

170+ and you're probably looking at H and S.


Depends on what type of URM but generally this is good advice.


Ok. Well that gives me some hope.

PS - (Forgot to mention that I am an AA Female)

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby Clearly » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:57 pm

Your original post kind of flipped between applying early, and applying early decision, which are two very different things. Your timescale is fine, just don't apply ED.

User avatar
elterrible78
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby elterrible78 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:02 pm

Based on my analysis of LSN data (just for URM applicants to the top-14, so data is kind of limited...take this for what it's worth).

In terms of being admitted to a school rather than rejected (leaving out waitlisted candidates whose ultimate fate is not known), controlling for LSAT score, GPA, gender, and non-trad status (as well as ED and earlier applications). The number for ED is the increase in likelihood of being accepted applying ED vs. RD. The number for applying earlier is the increase in the likelihood of being accepted for each earlier month you apply (Sep vs. Oct, Oct vs. Nov, etc.):

Columbia: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - no impact

Chicago: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 99%

NYU: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 32%

Penn: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 110%

Virginia: ED - 740% (yep, that is seven hundred and forty percent)
Applying earlier - 24%

Michigan: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 46%

Duke: ED - no impact (it's close to statistical significance, but not close enough)
Applying earlier - no impact

Northwestern: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 45%

Georgetown: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - no impact

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby Clearly » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:07 pm

elterrible78 wrote:Based on my analysis of LSN data (just for URM applicants to the top-14, so data is kind of limited...take this for what it's worth).

In terms of being admitted to a school rather than rejected (leaving out waitlisted candidates whose ultimate fate is not known), controlling for LSAT score, GPA, gender, and non-trad status (as well as ED and earlier applications). The number for ED is the increase in likelihood of being accepted applying ED vs. RD. The number for applying earlier is the increase in the likelihood of being accepted for each earlier month you apply (Sep vs. Oct, Oct vs. Nov, etc.):

Columbia: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - no impact

Chicago: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 99%

NYU: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 32%

Penn: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 110%

Virginia: ED - 740% (yep, that is seven hundred and forty percent)
Applying earlier - 24%

Michigan: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 46%

Duke: ED - no impact (it's close to statistical significance, but not close enough)
Applying earlier - no impact

Northwestern: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 45%

Georgetown: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - no impact

Do you have this same concept for non-urm T14 applicants? Maybe for splitters while we're at it? lol

User avatar
elterrible78
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby elterrible78 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:12 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:Do you have this same concept for non-urm T14 applicants? Maybe for splitters while we're at it? lol


Totally...are you just looking for all non-URMs, and then splitters regardless of URM status?

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:18 pm

Applying ED in this economy to law school is incredibly foolish.

User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Clearlynotstefan wrote:Your original post kind of flipped between applying early, and applying early decision, which are two very different things. Your timescale is fine, just don't apply ED.


Thanks Stefan. Sorry for the confusion.

I am interested in how both applying ED and simply applying "early" would impact a URM's application cycle.

When applying "early" I want to know if there is a general cut off time, after which, one's chances of being admitted are significantly reduced.

You answered my question, though. I most likely will be taking your advice.

User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:21 pm

elterrible78 wrote:Based on my analysis of LSN data (just for URM applicants to the top-14, so data is kind of limited...take this for what it's worth).

In terms of being admitted to a school rather than rejected (leaving out waitlisted candidates whose ultimate fate is not known), controlling for LSAT score, GPA, gender, and non-trad status (as well as ED and earlier applications). The number for ED is the increase in likelihood of being accepted applying ED vs. RD. The number for applying earlier is the increase in the likelihood of being accepted for each earlier month you apply (Sep vs. Oct, Oct vs. Nov, etc.):

Columbia: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - no impact

Chicago: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 99%

NYU: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 32%

Penn: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 110%

Virginia: ED - 740% (yep, that is seven hundred and forty percent)
Applying earlier - 24%

Michigan: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 46%

Duke: ED - no impact (it's close to statistical significance, but not close enough)
Applying earlier - no impact

Northwestern: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - 45%

Georgetown: ED - no impact
Applying earlier - no impact


Interesting stuff. Thanks Elterible! Do you happen to have stats for HYS as well?

User avatar
elterrible78
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby elterrible78 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:25 pm

femmefatale wrote:
Interesting stuff. Thanks Elterible! Do you happen to have stats for HYS as well?


Well, they don't have ED, but in terms of applying a month earlier:

Yale: No impact
Harvard: 62% increase in your chances
Stanford: No impact

Hope that helps!

User avatar
femmefatale
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby femmefatale » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:42 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
femmefatale wrote:
Interesting stuff. Thanks Elterible! Do you happen to have stats for HYS as well?


Well, they don't have ED, but in terms of applying a month earlier:

Yale: No impact
Harvard: 62% increase in your chances
Stanford: No impact

Hope that helps!


Definitely helps. Thanks a bunch!

User avatar
DaRascal
Posts: 1854
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby DaRascal » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:47 am

.
Last edited by DaRascal on Mon May 05, 2014 2:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:49 am

Keep in mind OP is AA and you're MA/Hispanic URM, Rascal. Far different bumps.

User avatar
DaRascal
Posts: 1854
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby DaRascal » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:54 am

.
Last edited by DaRascal on Mon May 05, 2014 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: Is Applying RD for URM's a Gamble?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:59 am

DaRascal wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Keep in mind OP is AA and you're MA/Hispanic URM, Rascal. Far different bumps.


Oh completely missed that post.
Well still if she ends up below a 162 or so I think she should still seriously consider ED'ing to a T6. I don't think she should be worried about getting locked out of the T14 until she dips below 160 or 159 right?


Agreed. But if she hits 165/167/170, ED is a terrible choice and she needs to apply to the entire T14, expecting $$, T6, or HYS.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests