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Hello, just got my scores back. A little bummed, since if I didn't completely bomb a certain section I would be sittin' pretty. Did two extensive research projects in undergrad, first generation college student, worked, volunteered, participated in a few clubs, def. have strong rec. letters coming...

What do you think my chances are?

Thanks!

If you really bombed one section, retake. If you can jump 3-5 points you have a great chance for at least one of the HYS schools. I'm a 165 3.83 AA male that is starting Harvard this fall (took the LSAT twice).

PuertoBlack wrote:What do you think my chances are?

Please be more specific. What law schools are you considering?

(Regardless of the answer, though, TCR is to retake.)

Good point. I was wondering what my chances would be making it into the t-14, possibly with some monies. I'm a bit unfamiliar with the lingo, what's TCR mean? Thanks!

PuertoBlack wrote:Good point. I was wondering what my chances would be making it into the t-14, possibly with some monies. I'm a bit unfamiliar with the lingo, what's TCR mean? Thanks!

"TCR" means "the credited response."

As far as your T14 chances:



Even with your URM boost, you can see that your chances aren't great. Retaking and getting at least a 165 would increase your chances dramatically, so you should definitely retake.

Unfortunately, softs don't seem to be as important to admissions staff as numbers (LSAT and GPA). To repeat what PRgradBYU said: if you can get that LSAT score up, I have a feeling your chances of getting a T-14 acceptance will be much higher.

Gaaaaah, I was so close. Will schools consider the fact that I'm taking the test twice??

PuertoBlack wrote:Gaaaaah, I was so close. Will schools consider the fact that I'm taking the test twice??

Puerto ignore that post with the admission chances chart. I'm sure he means well but that info is totally irrelevant for a Black male. As it stands now you will DEFINITELY be accepted by several top 14 schools. The only issue is how much money you will get and just how high into the top 14 you can go. You have a chance at Harvard with that current score. I'm not quite sure how good it is though.

If you retake and improve beyond a 165 you can basically guarantee admission to Harvard. You will have a very good shot at Stanford as well. Yale is the kind of place where even a 170+ LSAT wouldn't guarantee you but you'd have a shot. Good luck.

BruceWayne wrote:

PuertoBlack wrote:Gaaaaah, I was so close. Will schools consider the fact that I'm taking the test twice??

Puerto ignore that post with the admission chances chart. I'm sure he means well but that info is totally irrelevant for a Black male. As it stands now you will DEFINITELY be accepted by several top 14 schools. The only issue is how much money you will get and just how high into the top 14 you can go. You have a chance at Harvard with that current score. I'm not quite sure how good it is though.

If you retake and improve beyond a 165 you can basically guarantee admission to Harvard. You will have a very good shot at Stanford as well. Yale is the kind of place where even a 170+ LSAT wouldn't guarantee you but you'd have a shot. Good luck.

Thanks. That makes sense I suppose. I mean how many of those URMs who applied were black males? Does anyone have any info on financial need scholarships being common in this range?

PuertoBlack wrote:Gaaaaah, I was so close. Will schools consider the fact that I'm taking the test twice??

Sorry, I don't mean to say you're not in a good place right now. You will definitely get into some great schools, but your chances of HYS will increase if you score a bit higher. This last year, for Harvard, it looked like 165 was a good number to shoot for.

It doesn't seem like schools really care if you retake. Maybe Yale will, but if you feel you can do better, why not?

Hey, guys thanks for all of the support/advice. I guess I should clarify a bit further... I have no particular interest in going to HYS for a ton of cash. I'd be perfectly fine going to a lower ranked T-14 school with a good scholarship. What say y'all nah?

Thanks again!

PuertoBlack wrote:Hey, guys thanks for all of the support/advice. I guess I should clarify a bit further... I have no particular interest in going to HYS for a ton of cash. I'd be perfectly fine going to a lower ranked T-14 school with a good scholarship. What say y'all nah?

Thanks again!

Smart choice. A lot of people attending HYS now on TLS would advise the same.

Retaking is still the best option for maximum scholly chances.

LSN says your chances are below 50% at every T-14. Don't worry about getting money when you probably won't even get in. While it might seem like maybe you'll hit something if you blanket the T-14, admissions decisions across T-14 are highly correlated and there's a good chance you'll be shut out.

Retake. Don't make your decisions on which law school to attend before you even get in.

soj wrote:LSN says your chances are below 50% at every T-14. Don't worry about getting money when you probably won't even get in. While it might seem like maybe you'll hit something if you blanket the T-14, admissions decisions across T-14 are highly correlated and there's a good chance you'll be shut out.

More evidence for the notion that LSN should be taken with a massive grain of salt, especially for AAs. The chances of an AA male with numbers like the OP's being "shut out" of the T-14 (assuming he has blanketed them) are far from "good".

Puerto, BruceWayne's post earlier is the best response you've gotten so far as it most accurately portrays the situation faced by AA applicants. You are a lock for the bottom half of the T-14 and have a shot at a T6 acceptance with your current LSAT and GPA. Apply to every T-14 and a few good T20s, and you'll land ok.

Athlone McGinnis wrote:

soj wrote:LSN says your chances are below 50% at every T-14. Don't worry about getting money when you probably won't even get in. While it might seem like maybe you'll hit something if you blanket the T-14, admissions decisions across T-14 are highly correlated and there's a good chance you'll be shut out.

More evidence for the notion that LSN should be taken with a massive grain of salt, especially for AAs. The chances of an AA male with numbers like the OP's being "shut out" of the T-14 (assuming he has blanketed them) are far from "good".

Puerto, BruceWayne's post earlier is the best response you've gotten so far as it most accurately portrays the situation faced by AA applicants. You are a lock for the bottom half of the T-14 and have a shot at a T6 acceptance with your current LSAT and GPA. Apply to every T-14 and a few good T20s, and you'll land ok.

Despite whatever additional bump that may exist for AA makes, to maximize his chances and potential scholarship money, retaking is undoubtedly the best option.

OP, don't be satisfied or complacent with your current score just because of the bump.

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:

Despite whatever additional bump that may exist for AA makes, to maximize his chances and potential scholarship money, retaking is undoubtedly the best option.

OP, don't be satisfied or complacent with your current score just because of the bump.

Fair enough. Your point that OP shouldn't be too complacent is well taken, so long as he's not too pessimistic either.

Thanks guys. Any advice on where I should be pting? I'm gonna try to at least consistently get in the low 170s. If I can get LG to -3, I'd be super happy.

PuertoBlack wrote:Thanks guys. Any advice on where I should be pting? I'm gonna try to at least consistently get in the low 170s. If I can get LG to -3, I'd be super happy.

LG-0 is very possible. Generally, if you can consistently PT in the low 170s, you'll be in a good place.

PuertoBlack wrote:Thanks guys. Any advice on where I should be pting? I'm gonna try to at least consistently get in the low 170s. If I can get LG to -3, I'd be super happy.

You should really be analyzing how you studied for the LSAT. You should be getting zero wrong on one of those LRs and zero on the LG, if you want to compete for a 170, because you might get a curve or two on test day. People have given you good advice on retaking. I'd retake if I were you. But honestly, before you consider that you should be asking how hard and how wisely you studied. If you already had a good plan, and just didn't make the cut - well maybe you are going to be satisfied with slipping into a t-14, but if you know you didn't take 30 tests under test day conditions, well you'll always be one of them cats saying they could have done better.

Even having a conversation about what school you'll end up at based on a URM boost seems kind of pessimistic. Your gpa, is basically what mine is. I scored a 168 - got into Harvard and Yale. Though, I'll add that there is something to be said for schools looking at more than your scores. And so yes, that 162 could end up being your ticket to wherever you want. Or not. Good luck though. Don't waste that gpa on whatever advise says don't go to YHS before you even get in.

You should read this too, I imagine it applies to you as well:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=195443

PRgradBYU wrote:

PuertoBlack wrote:Good point. I was wondering what my chances would be making it into the t-14, possibly with some monies. I'm a bit unfamiliar with the lingo, what's TCR mean? Thanks!

"TCR" means "the credited response."

As far as your T14 chances:



Even with your URM boost, you can see that your chances aren't great. Retaking and getting at least a 165 would increase your chances dramatically, so you should definitely retake.

Those charts are worthless for URMs because for AAs they include Hispanics and for Hispanics they include AAs.

Retake, get a 166, and ED Chicago.

With your GPA you shouldn't ED anywhere in my opinion. Your current numbers will get you into some T-14s with money. With that said, shoot for a 180 in October and if you happen to get a 165+ you'll be in great shape.

Good luck

d330 wrote:

PuertoBlack wrote:Thanks guys. Any advice on where I should be pting? I'm gonna try to at least consistently get in the low 170s. If I can get LG to -3, I'd be super happy.

You should really be analyzing how you studied for the LSAT. You should be getting zero wrong on one of those LRs and zero on the LG, if you want to compete for a 170, because you might get a curve or two on test day. People have given you good advice on retaking. I'd retake if I were you. But honestly, before you consider that you should be asking how hard and how wisely you studied. If you already had a good plan, and just didn't make the cut - well maybe you are going to be satisfied with slipping into a t-14, but if you know you didn't take 30 tests under test day conditions, well you'll always be one of them cats saying they could have done better.

Even having a conversation about what school you'll end up at based on a URM boost seems kind of pessimistic. Your gpa, is basically what mine is. I scored a 168 - got into Harvard and Yale. Though, I'll add that there is something to be said for schools looking at more than your scores. And so yes, that 162 could end up being your ticket to wherever you want. Or not. Good luck though. Don't waste that gpa on whatever advise says don't go to YHS before you even get in.

You should read this too, I imagine it applies to you as well:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=195443

Thanks for the advice. I took about 11 practice tests, but I had not accounted for the first 3 sections literally having not even a 10 second break in between them. I'll go through the LG bible again. I literally just bombed that ish, getting -10, when I had been getting no more than -5.

Interesting statistics. Although they may have positive consequences for me, they are thoroughly disheartening.

Thanks again!

Also, can anyone hypothesize why PRs aren't given as large a bump as AA, when they clearly perform the worst according to the LSAC data?

californiauser wrote:

PRgradBYU wrote:

PuertoBlack wrote:Good point. I was wondering what my chances would be making it into the t-14, possibly with some monies. I'm a bit unfamiliar with the lingo, what's TCR mean? Thanks!

"TCR" means "the credited response."

As far as your T14 chances:



Even with your URM boost, you can see that your chances aren't great. Retaking and getting at least a 165 would increase your chances dramatically, so you should definitely retake.

Those charts are worthless for URMs because for AAs they include Hispanics and for Hispanics they include AAs.

Yeah, you're right. It'd be nice if there were an option to specify certain types of URMs; this chart is rather pessimistic for AA males.