AA Male 3.4 151/155/160 Advice Forum

[wlee1220]

I'm in need of some advice. I took the LSAT twice (Oct and Dec '11), scored below my PT range (160-164) both times, but decided to apply to law school anyway. Seeing as though I didn't send out my apps until late Jan/early Feb 2012, I actually way outperformed my numbers. Average softs (president of a large campus org, co-founder of a faith-based student-led org with students from campuses throughout the city, political and govt internships, worked at FedEx during UG, currently doing community organizing/outreach for a faith-based non-profit). GPA was shit first two years, but never got lower than 3.75 last two yrs and was still able to graduate through our honors program and with cum laude honors.

So I was planning on taking the June LSAT, but I feel like I need some extra time to study so I'm going to take the Oct exam. But I have been talking to my old UG pre-law advisor and he's telling me that if I'm still PTing in the high 160s then it doesn't make sense for me to waste time retaking and I need to just accept that I won't be HYSCCN bound (which I already kinda considered out because of my GPA). He says that I should try to either make a long term career out of my current job (which I don't see much upward mobility or exit options) or settle for Rutgers-C or Temple. I dream school is NYU because I'm interested in PI, but I haven't completely ruled out biglaw. I have pretty strong ties to Philly, South Jersey, Atlanta, and Charlotte and I wouldn't mind living in any of those cities. I would be more than happy to get into Penn or Duke. Just to prove how crazymy cycle was last time, I actually got WL, rejected by CCN and Penn while I got flat-out rejected from Rutgers-C. So I have a few questions:

1. I'm still going to retake the LSAT anyway, but would it make any sense to throw an app at HYSCCN?
2. What other schools can I reasonably apply to with a good chance of getting in?
3. Would it make any sense to write an addendum explaining my low GPA (I worked all through UG, had an awful first two years adjusting, and lost 3 close family members during that time)?
4. Or should I just follow my advisor's advice and apply to regional schools in PA, Jersey, NC, and GA?

[Nova]

1. I'm still going to retake the LSAT anyway, but would it make any sense to throw an app at HYSCCN?
2. What other schools can I reasonably apply to with a good chance of getting in?
3. Would it make any sense to write an addendum explaining my low GPA (I worked all through UG, had an awful first two years adjusting, and lost 3 close family members during that time)?
4. Or should I just follow my advisor's advice and apply to regional schools in PA, Jersey, NC, and GA?

Almost everything depends on your Oct '13 LSAT

1. Depends on your new score. You can get CCNP with a high enough LSAT.
2. Depends on your new score. As of now your numbers are a crapshoot for everything 15-50.
3. Yeah, but it wont be a game changer.
4. No, dont do that. Assuming 160+ you should blanket the T30 at least.

Good luck on the LSAT. Im sure a lot of posters here will be rooting for you.

[californiauser]

Based on what I've seen on LSN for the past few years, you absolutely have a chance at Harvard and Columbia if you can score a 170+. Hell, a 165+ gives you a shot at Columbia.

[wlee1220]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm really trying to aim for as high as I can get on this retake. I've gone through LRB and LGB, but I'm starting to plateau a little. Idk why but I can't seem to PT above 168. If I could get into Harvard or Columbia, I'd almost give up any damn thing to go.

Slightly off-topic: Will it hurt me if I used the same LORs that I had when I applied in 2012? One of my profs is overseas until Jun 2014 and the other one has been slow to respond to my calls/emails. I have a two new professional letters, but I was wondering if that would hurt me.

[PRgradBYU]

Slightly off-topic: Will it hurt me if I used the same LORs that I had when I applied in 2012?

Nope. Law schools don't expect you to get entirely new LORs each cycle you apply. Anyway, I'm rootin' for you, man. Hit 165+ and enjoy at least one of HYSCCN.

[wlee1220]

Slightly off-topic: Will it hurt me if I used the same LORs that I had when I applied in 2012?

Nope. Law schools don't expect you to get entirely new LORs each cycle you apply. Anyway, I'm rootin' for you, man. Hit 165+ and enjoy at least one of HYSCCN.

Thanks man really appreciate it. It's been a grind studying and trying to get over this plateau. I'm just hoping this all pays off come end of October.

[wlee1220]

New question: I asked this somewhere else and got conflicting answers, but basically I think I may have bottomed out. I hit 170 once during my prep (which makes me believe I can somehow hit this again) but I'm more consistently hitting between 165-168. Should I go for the Oct test with these numbers or wait until Dec and keep prepping in the hopes that I can consistently hit 170+? Given my shitty GPA and the fact that I will have taken it three times, I want to give myself the best possible chance to score as high as I can.

[wlee1220]

How does my 160 change things??? Should I just sit this out and wait til I can take the test again? I really want to apply and go now, but I only want to go if I have a chance at going to a school with a strong LRAP program and I can get a good job from to start my career.

[Nova]

Congratulations on your improvement.

Based on your PTs, I think you owe it to yourself to take another shot in Feb/June.

may as well apply now and evaluate your offers later, IMO

[BankruptMe]

This is a simple problem with a simple solution.

Apply to the schools you KNOW you would attend now. Which as previously said anything from 15-50. See how you do.

Retake if you so wish, and evaluate what offers you have. I believe you can defer for a year anyway. And then with a higher LSAT, you could negotiate more $$$

Your not locked into anything until you pay the seat deposit

[Nova]

Even then you can eat the deposit and take a loss if necessary

[wlee1220]

I posted in the Choosing a Law School Forum, but I wanted to get some opinions here as well. So far, I've been admitted to Vandy, Rutgers-C and Temple and am waiting to hear back from Penn, Columbia, Duke, and Emory. Vandy offered me half tuition, Rutgers offered 10K, and Temple offered 20K. When I do the math, I'll end up 81K in the hole at Temple, 86K at Rutgers, and 150K at Vandy. When I explained this to my family, they obviously thought that I needed to go with the cheapest option and quit putting it off any longer. I know that my employment prospects would be much better at Vandy over Rutgers-C and Temple, but would anyone say that it's worth 150K? On first glance I thought that was bad but their LST numbers don't look as horrifying as Rutgers-C, and I have pretty good ties to Atlanta. I was all on-board for a retake but I was just told today that my job would be scaling back and laying people off during the summer and my family has been putting a lot more pressure on me lately to get my law degree and "quit waiting around."

[AAJD2B]

I posted in the Choosing a Law School Forum, but I wanted to get some opinions here as well. So far, I've been admitted to Vandy, Rutgers-C and Temple and am waiting to hear back from Penn, Columbia, Duke, and Emory. Vandy offered me half tuition, Rutgers offered 10K, and Temple offered 20K. When I do the math, I'll end up 81K in the hole at Temple, 86K at Rutgers, and 150K at Vandy. When I explained this to my family, they obviously thought that I needed to go with the cheapest option and quit putting it off any longer. I know that my employment prospects would be much better at Vandy over Rutgers-C and Temple, but would anyone say that it's worth 150K? On first glance I thought that was bad but their LST numbers don't look as horrifying as Rutgers-C, and I have pretty good ties to Atlanta. I was all on-board for a retake but I was just told today that my job would be scaling back and laying people off during the summer and my family has been putting a lot more pressure on me lately to get my law degree and "quit waiting around."

Were you planning to go the PI or BIGLAW route??

Given these three options, I would say Vandy is worth the extra 70k on the sole basis of opportunity to summer at and be offered a firm job to help pay off the debt. Not to mention the cheaper COL in TN. I definitely think you need to visit the school to see what they have to offer you. It's extremely reputable with solid employment prospects. It will also depend on fit. Definitely connect with the black male population attending Vandy to gain their perspective on things. I highly doubt you'll be out of options. Black males are a rarity in the field. You will be highly sought after, especially coming from a strong regional or national law school.

[wlee1220]

I posted in the Choosing a Law School Forum, but I wanted to get some opinions here as well. So far, I've been admitted to Vandy, Rutgers-C and Temple and am waiting to hear back from Penn, Columbia, Duke, and Emory. Vandy offered me half tuition, Rutgers offered 10K, and Temple offered 20K. When I do the math, I'll end up 81K in the hole at Temple, 86K at Rutgers, and 150K at Vandy. When I explained this to my family, they obviously thought that I needed to go with the cheapest option and quit putting it off any longer. I know that my employment prospects would be much better at Vandy over Rutgers-C and Temple, but would anyone say that it's worth 150K? On first glance I thought that was bad but their LST numbers don't look as horrifying as Rutgers-C, and I have pretty good ties to Atlanta. I was all on-board for a retake but I was just told today that my job would be scaling back and laying people off during the summer and my family has been putting a lot more pressure on me lately to get my law degree and "quit waiting around."

Were you planning to go the PI or BIGLAW route??

Given these three options, I would say Vandy is worth the extra 70k on the sole basis of opportunity to summer at and be offered a firm job to help pay off the debt. Not to mention the cheaper COL in TN. I definitely think you need to visit the school to see what they have to offer you. It's extremely reputable with solid employment prospects. It will also depend on fit. Definitely connect with the black male population attending Vandy to gain their perspective on things. I highly doubt you'll be out of options. Black males are a rarity in the field. You will be highly sought after, especially coming from a strong regional or national law school.

I am not opposed to BIGLAW entirely, but I really wanted to go PI. I think I have pretty solid ties to Atlanta, and my SO is from there and she wants to get back down south, so I figured Vandy at that price wouldn't be terrible.

[AAJD2B]

I posted in the Choosing a Law School Forum, but I wanted to get some opinions here as well. So far, I've been admitted to Vandy, Rutgers-C and Temple and am waiting to hear back from Penn, Columbia, Duke, and Emory. Vandy offered me half tuition, Rutgers offered 10K, and Temple offered 20K. When I do the math, I'll end up 81K in the hole at Temple, 86K at Rutgers, and 150K at Vandy. When I explained this to my family, they obviously thought that I needed to go with the cheapest option and quit putting it off any longer. I know that my employment prospects would be much better at Vandy over Rutgers-C and Temple, but would anyone say that it's worth 150K? On first glance I thought that was bad but their LST numbers don't look as horrifying as Rutgers-C, and I have pretty good ties to Atlanta. I was all on-board for a retake but I was just told today that my job would be scaling back and laying people off during the summer and my family has been putting a lot more pressure on me lately to get my law degree and "quit waiting around."

Were you planning to go the PI or BIGLAW route??

Given these three options, I would say Vandy is worth the extra 70k on the sole basis of opportunity to summer at and be offered a firm job to help pay off the debt. Not to mention the cheaper COL in TN. I definitely think you need to visit the school to see what they have to offer you. It's extremely reputable with solid employment prospects. It will also depend on fit. Definitely connect with the black male population attending Vandy to gain their perspective on things. I highly doubt you'll be out of options. Black males are a rarity in the field. You will be highly sought after, especially coming from a strong regional or national law school.

I am not opposed to BIGLAW entirely, but I really wanted to go PI. I think I have pretty solid ties to Atlanta, and my SO is from there and she wants to get back down south, so I figured Vandy at that price wouldn't be terrible.

Then the debt won't be a factor. It can be forgiven after 10 yrs of PI service in addition to Vandy paying 20-50% of the debt ( also up to 10 years) but definitely verify this with Vanderbilt.

More info here: http://law.vanderbilt.edu/academics/cli ... rogram.php

[wlee1220]

Now that my cycle's pretty much complete except my Hail Mary to Columbia, I either can go to Rutgers-C/Temple for about 50K (this includes interest/COA/etc and may actually still be a little on the high end) or I can go to Vandy for 150K. I'm on the wait lists for Penn, Duke and UVA. I'm all out of retakes, and with what's going on with my job (crazy budget cuts coming in June, work shifts in general) I'm not confident that my job is as secure as I thought it would be to make sitting out another year or two for a retake a good decision. With my lib arts degree it was hard enough finding the job that I have; I'm not really trying to both find work that supports my living expenses and prep for a retake at the same time.

I liked Vandy during my visit and I want to go ahead and deposit, but I'm just slightly nervous about the possibility of coming out 150K in the hole with no job. Thoughts anyone? I still plan on riding out the Penn and Duke lists during the summer just in case.

[jsmith201]

Can you post scholarship totals for each school? My opinion is to hold off on finding that apartment in nashville! There may be a lot of URM movement off the WL. If you are eligible for need aid UVA/Duke might have 15-30K/year for you. Would you take either school at sticker?

[wlee1220]

Sure. I thought it would be more beneficial to do the whole COA with interest thing, but here goes:
-Vandy: 75K over 3 years
-Rutgers-C: 36K over 3 years w/in-state tuition
-Temple: 60K over 3 years w/in-state tuition equalizer (that's what they gave me after negotiation)

Like I said, waitlisted at Penn, UVA, Duke. Waiting on Columbia (LOL).

Btw: when calculating COL, I went with very high COL numbers. I'm sure I could reduce those by eating more into savings/relying more on parents/etc.

[Lacepiece23]

Did you not apply to Cornell? You would have gotten in with some money?

[wlee1220]

Did you not apply to Cornell? You would have gotten in with some money?

Sorry for such a late response but I didn't. Idk fully why I decided against Cornell tbh.

I've deposited at Vandy, but I'm going to ride out Penn and Duke's waitlists. There's been some major changes in my family's financial situation that is gonna enable them to contribute more so I decided to take the chance on Vandy.