I feel odd...

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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Barack O'Drama
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I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:44 am

Hey guys,

I am a URM... I do well enough in school that I have a 3.92...I've always really just worked hard (When I needed) and done well. In the last year or so I've been checking out TLS and learning more about LS, before this I did not know about the whole URM advantage (to the same extent). I would ideally like to attend H,Y ..NYU or Columbia. However, I feel a bit odd about it because if I get in I will feel like it is only because I am a URM. I am pretty confident I can score 164/5+ on the LSAT with diligent studying. I am not implying I won't use my "URM" status to help, but last night I was doing some thinking and it dawned on me that I don't want to look back and feel like I only got in because of that. It is not a terribly big deal, so I was just wondering if anyone else had felt this way? I don't feel particularly bad, so to speak; however, there is just something...Odd I feel that I can't put a finger on

Any thoughts from other URMs?

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ManoftheHour
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby ManoftheHour » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:49 am

I understand the sentiment, but law school is a huge gamble. You need every advantage you can, buddy. Good luck on your cycle.

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isuperserial
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby isuperserial » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:52 am

GregoryADevine wrote:Hey guys,

I am a URM... I do well enough in school that I have a 3.92...I've always really just worked hard (When I needed) and done well. In the last year or so I've been checking out TLS and learning more about LS, before this I did not know about the whole URM advantage (to the same extent). I would ideally like to attend H,Y ..NYU or Columbia. However, I feel a bit odd about it because if I get in I will feel like it is only because I am a URM. I am pretty confident I can score 164/5+ on the LSAT with diligent studying. I am not implying I won't use my "URM" status to help, but last night I was doing some thinking and it dawned on me that I don't want to look back and feel like I only got in because of that. It is not a terribly big deal, so I was just wondering if anyone else had felt this way? I don't feel particularly bad, so to speak; however, there is just something...Odd I feel that I can't put a finger on

Any thoughts from other URMs?


Chief, there will be a million times in life where you are fucked over by circumstances you can't control. When life throws you a bone, you take it and be thankful. That's the classy thing to do.

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Tom Joad
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:55 am

If you want to feel better about it you can look at it as a collective issue. I am a white guy and if AA was only about giving certain individuals an advantage I would be against it because it would seem unfair to me. But I also see it as important to have all types of people represented in important and visible positions because it sends a good message to others that they can get there too, and it sends a positive message of integration to everybody in society.

El Principe
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby El Principe » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:02 am

For every one of us that URM selectiveness helps, there are at least 10 others who are sh***ed on for that same reason in other aspects of life. Take it with grace and move on.

EDITED
Last edited by El Principe on Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:08 am

Thank you all! I appreciate all 3 comments.. You're all right, I guess it comes down to: A. LS is a gamble B. diversity in LS and C. Be thankful

I suppose for personal reasons I would like to score something that is plausible to get ANY person into the school I choose to attend. I mean if I end up trying my best and only reaching a 165 and a 3.7 and get into a good school with $$$, I'll take it. Just asking about it makes me feel odd. I guess I was kind of ashamed at myself because I changed my mindset subconsciously to: Oh, ALL you need is a 165+, 3.7+and URM status and you're set... While I read other killing themselves to get 174+ ...Doesn't sit right with me. But at the end of the day I am mostly broke, and although I don't agree with the rules I'll use them to my advantage. For example, I don't agree with the Designator hitter rule in Baseball, but I'd use it if I was a ML BB coach.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:09 am

El Principe wrote:For every one of us that URM selectiveness helps, there are at least 10 others who are sh***ed on for that same reason. Take it with grace and move on.



Good point! I agree, and with grace I shall take it. I just can't help feeling like there's got to be a better way...

Redfactor
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Redfactor » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:11 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:16 am

@RedFactor... Can't argue with that logic! Yeah, that's probably true, however, I've been reading through the forum and found out URM's with 162-163 and 3.5 can get into most T-14 minus Y? At least this cycle...Just seems like the standards are lowering?

Redfactor
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Redfactor » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:17 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:23 am

Redfactor... I do feel like a URM is most likely at a disadvantage for the actual Post-LS opportunities... However, I think we should try to fix it because I don't understand the logic to begin with. URMs typically score lower: So heres a solution... Just seems a bit unsound. In any case, I think this problem is more about my pride and I guess if it is what's best I will have to let it down. Not the biggest deal

El Principe
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby El Principe » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:27 am

Redfactor wrote:
El Principe wrote:For every one of us that URM selectiveness helps, there are at least 10 others who are sh***ed on for that same reason. Take it with grace and move on.


Oh yeah, for sure. Because there are so many universities out there preaching about wanting a homogeneous student body....


I wasn't talking about school... I didn't elaborate. That's not what I was trying to imply.

Redfactor
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Redfactor » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:28 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:33 am

Redfactor wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:@RedFactor... Can't argue with that logic! Yeah, that's probably true, however, I've been reading through the forum and found out URM's with 162-163 and 3.5 can get into most T-14 minus Y? At least this cycle...Just seems like the standards are lowering?


I am not URM and not super knowledgable about their cycles. I do feel that the type of URM in both ethnicity and gender will play a factor though.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 162-163 and a 3.5 gpa can get you some T-14. I doubt that you could get H with that unless you're AA male, but I haven't looked at LSN so I have no evidence to support that guess.

Shoot for the absolute best score you can get and then leave it up to the schools whether or not they want you in their incoming class. Elite law schools are run by very intelligent people. If they have looked over their application and they've decided that you're a good candidate for the rigors of their program, I would trust their judgement and just go in there ready to kick butt.



I am an AA male, and that's a great point! They are intelligent and if they choose me, they choose me. I'll do my best and try to score what the best I potentially can score. Thank you :)

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stuckinthemiddle
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:35 am

Oh OP, your problems are so legit. :roll: :roll: :roll:

El Principe
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby El Principe » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:39 am

GregoryADevine wrote:
Redfactor wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:@RedFactor... Can't argue with that logic! Yeah, that's probably true, however, I've been reading through the forum and found out URM's with 162-163 and 3.5 can get into most T-14 minus Y? At least this cycle...Just seems like the standards are lowering?


I am not URM and not super knowledgable about their cycles. I do feel that the type of URM in both ethnicity and gender will play a factor though.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 162-163 and a 3.5 gpa can get you some T-14. I doubt that you could get H with that unless you're AA male, but I haven't looked at LSN so I have no evidence to support that guess.

Shoot for the absolute best score you can get and then leave it up to the schools whether or not they want you in their incoming class. Elite law schools are run by very intelligent people. If they have looked over their application and they've decided that you're a good candidate for the rigors of their program, I would trust their judgement and just go in there ready to kick butt.



I am an AA male, and that's a great point! They are intelligent and if they choose me, they choose me. I'll do my best and try to score what the best I potentially can score. Thank you :)


3.92? You'll be fine.

Irundistance
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Irundistance » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:42 am

GregoryADevine wrote:Hey guys,

I am a URM... I do well enough in school that I have a 3.92...I've always really just worked hard (When I needed) and done well. In the last year or so I've been checking out TLS and learning more about LS, before this I did not know about the whole URM advantage (to the same extent). I would ideally like to attend H,Y ..NYU or Columbia. However, I feel a bit odd about it because if I get in I will feel like it is only because I am a URM. I am pretty confident I can score 164/5+ on the LSAT with diligent studying. I am not implying I won't use my "URM" status to help, but last night I was doing some thinking and it dawned on me that I don't want to look back and feel like I only got in because of that. It is not a terribly big deal, so I was just wondering if anyone else had felt this way? I don't feel particularly bad, so to speak; however, there is just something...Odd I feel that I can't put a finger on

Any thoughts from other URMs?

I'm a URM as well and I can understand why you feel the way you do. But, you obviously have a great GPA so don't feel as though your URM status was the only reason you got accepted. Look at it as an opportunity to get into a great school and continue to work hard.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:42 am

Stuckinthemiddle...I hear ya man, wasn't a problem, like I said I felt a little odd. And I said it was ultimately a pride issue & not a big deal. I was just reaching out to see how other URMs felt...

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:43 am

Irundistance wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:Hey guys,

I am a URM... I do well enough in school that I have a 3.92...I've always really just worked hard (When I needed) and done well. In the last year or so I've been checking out TLS and learning more about LS, before this I did not know about the whole URM advantage (to the same extent). I would ideally like to attend H,Y ..NYU or Columbia. However, I feel a bit odd about it because if I get in I will feel like it is only because I am a URM. I am pretty confident I can score 164/5+ on the LSAT with diligent studying. I am not implying I won't use my "URM" status to help, but last night I was doing some thinking and it dawned on me that I don't want to look back and feel like I only got in because of that. It is not a terribly big deal, so I was just wondering if anyone else had felt this way? I don't feel particularly bad, so to speak; however, there is just something...Odd I feel that I can't put a finger on

Any thoughts from other URMs?

I'm a URM as well and I can understand why you feel the way you do. But, you obviously have a great GPA so don't feel as though your URM status was the only reason you got accepted. Look at it as an opportunity to get into a great school and continue to work hard.


Nothing wrong with that view, thank you!

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jrsbaseball5
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby jrsbaseball5 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:52 am

OP-

It is awesome that you compared URM status to a DH in baseball. I love it!

Also, I'm in the same boat as you and have thought that way at times, but I figure I will use what I can to my advantage. An opportunity is an opportunity.

Redfactor
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Redfactor » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:55 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:57 am

jrsbaseball5 wrote:OP-

It is awesome that you compared URM status to a DH in baseball. I love it!

Also, I'm in the same boat as you and have thought that way at times, but I figure I will use what I can to my advantage. An opportunity is an opportunity.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:04 am

Redfactor wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:
Redfactor wrote:
GregoryADevine wrote:@RedFactor... Can't argue with that logic! Yeah, that's probably true, however, I've been reading through the forum and found out URM's with 162-163 and 3.5 can get into most T-14 minus Y? At least this cycle...Just seems like the standards are lowering?


I am not URM and not super knowledgable about their cycles. I do feel that the type of URM in both ethnicity and gender will play a factor though.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 162-163 and a 3.5 gpa can get you some T-14. I doubt that you could get H with that unless you're AA male, but I haven't looked at LSN so I have no evidence to support that guess.

Shoot for the absolute best score you can get and then leave it up to the schools whether or not they want you in their incoming class. Elite law schools are run by very intelligent people. If they have looked over their application and they've decided that you're a good candidate for the rigors of their program, I would trust their judgement and just go in there ready to kick butt.



I am an AA male, and that's a great point! They are intelligent and if they choose me, they choose me. I'll do my best and try to score what the best I potentially can score. Thank you :)



I would urge you to go in with a good mentality into studying for the LSAT. It's true that URMs, especially blacks, tend to score lower on the LSAT compared to white counterparts. But there are tons of possible contributing factors for that and none of them that I've ever heard is that it is an issue of intelligence. Put in months of serious prep work and you too can get your score up to the 170's just like so many people on these boards. I trust with a 3.9+ that you either know how to put in study hours or are just a naturally bright guy. Either way, it will help with LSAT prep.

Get a 170+ with your GPA and every school in the country would consider you a serious candidate regardless of race.

Best of luck and your future looks bright!

(Oh, and I think the evidence suggests that most all initial employment opportunities are benefited by being URM.)


Thank you! This post has given me great motivation to do even better and re-instill the idea of doing great --regardless of race. I will do just that, I believe if I put in the same effort and work I have always put in a 170+ is certainly doable. I appreciate all the positive and helpful feedback guys, you've proven to me again that TLS can be a wonderful source of information &motivation :)

Irundistance
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Irundistance » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:45 am

Yeah, shoot for the top! With anything, including the LSAT, the effort you put in is what you'll get back in return. Just buckle down, dedicate yourself, and your going to do great. I'm starting my 5-month, full time study plan for the lsat in a few weeks; I know its going to be a task, but the reward is worth the sleepless nights, cold sweats, and whatever comes with LSAT prep :)

Huey Freeman
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Re: I feel odd...

Postby Huey Freeman » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:52 am

Honestly, why bother with the super intense 175+ or bust LSAT prep? If a 163-165 or whatever is enough to get into HYS range, just make sure you PT slightly above it and go for it. I just don't see the marginal benefit of investing extra months and months into it when it realistically won't make a difference (except maybe at Y, and who knows what the hell they look for anyway). It's not like HYS is going to give you any more money, and it's not like anyone cares about your LSAT score the moment you enter a law school.

I dunno, I get that you feel oddly about it, but I don't get the motive behind gunning super hard for dat 180 when it's not really necessary. Life dealt you a good hand in this case - take it, enjoy HYS with a lot less LSAT prep.




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