AA Male Student athlete needs advice Forum

[mt2165]

Hey, so I am a sophomore at Binghamton university. I was originally going to attend Swarthmore college but on account of financial difficulties, was unable to attend. Anyways, I am a student athlete at Binghamton (which is D1) who genuinely does not have much time for much else. I am a philosophy/law major with a minor in sociology. Right now I have a 3.6 but plan on getting that closer to the 3.7 range when it's all said and done. I'm really worried about two things as I look towards law school, first financing, two my soft. Regarding the first, I have definite interest in public interest law, especially policy advocacy. I am really not all that interested in private practice. This means I will need a program with substantial loan assistance or generous aid/grants. On the second note, being a student athlete, I commit basically commit 20 hours a week to track and field, especially in season. I have accolades from that (all-academic, conference scorer, etc) but I worry that this will detract from other things, such as my lack of other extracurricular activities. Right now I am in two research projects within the philosophy and political science departments here. If I am prep testing around the high 160's (166-170) in the lsat, what do you guys thinks are my chances at a top 14 school, which ones, and how much aid can I reasonably expect considering my interests. Oh and I am graduating in three years, thus I will be applying this fall/winter.

[dixon02]

Hey, so I am a sophomore at Binghamton university. I was originally going to attend Swarthmore college but on account of financial difficulties, was unable to attend. Anyways, I am a student athlete at Binghamton (which is D1) who genuinely does not have much time for much else. I am a philosophy/law major with a minor in sociology. Right now I have a 3.6 but plan on getting that closer to the 3.7 range when it's all said and done. I'm really worried about two things as I look towards law school, first financing, two my soft. Regarding the first, I have definite interest in public interest law, especially policy advocacy. I am really not all that interested in private practice. This means I will need a program with substantial loan assistance or generous aid/grants. On the second note, being a student athlete, I commit basically commit 20 hours a week to track and field, especially in season. I have accolades from that (all-academic, conference scorer, etc) but I worry that this will detract from other things, such as my lack of other extracurricular activities. Right now I am in two research projects within the philosophy and political science departments here. If I am prep testing around the high 160's (166-170) in the lsat, what do you guys thinks are my chances at a top 14 school, which ones, and how much aid can I reasonably expect considering my interests. Oh and I am graduating in three years, thus I will be applying this fall/winter.

Your softs are fine. Not elite, but plenty good enough to not be a detractor (which is true of most people). Being a D-1 athlete is its own soft.

If you are an AA male with a 3.7/165+, you are not going to have to worry about financing law school. You'll get huge $$$$ from multiple T14 schools.

[mt2165]

Thanks. As of right now, my top choice would be chicago, duke, cornell, northwestern, and perhaps stanford. If I was interested in a joint degree with public policy, anyone know if grant opportunities could extend to other degrees?

[Hjones33]

Your student-athlete status will not be a detriment. Multiple T-14 schools noted to me how few D-1 athletes attend their schools and they love it when qualified athletes apply.

[Tom Joad]

You have a solid GPA and if you get that good LSAT score, a good school will offer you lots of money. Shout out to Tony Kornheiser, Binghamton alum.

[abacus]

You are in fine shape. Keep your grades up and don't worry too much about your extracurriculars. D1 sports are enough of a soft that you shouldn't worry about doing additional things on campus that you wouldn't want to do and which could detract from your grades. Instead, focus on getting interesting summer internships. If you pull a 170 and a 3.7, that will be more than enough to get you into Harvard and/or Stanford.

Also, please do not go straight to law school. If you feel like you must, apply now and defer for at least one year. You should get some actual work experience; you'll make some money, relax after spending your whole life in school, and it will help you when you're actually interviewing for real jobs. Law school will always be there.

Anyway, hope Bing is treating you well. Don't sweat the Swat thing.

[mt2165]

Thanks all. I think I saw somewhere that university of Chicago doesn't give full scholarships. If I can score in the upper 160s with a 3.7, would it be wise to expect more than a half scholarship somewhere? I guess I'm trying to contextualize " tons of money".

[PickMe!]

Take the LSAT.

[Anonimo]

Take the LSAT.

+1

I admire people who are athletes and can maintain a good GPA. It could show that you can manage yourself well when you're really busy. I believe LS will think something similar, but then again, softs are not that important in the admissions game.

[fruitoftheloom]

Thanks all. I think I saw somewhere that university of Chicago doesn't give full scholarships. If I can score in the upper 160s with a 3.7, would it be wise to expect more than a half scholarship somewhere? I guess I'm trying to contextualize " tons of money".

Chicago does offer full scholarships: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=144338

As a URM, if you have a 3.7 and 170+ on the LSAT I think you may be in good shape.

Follow Wormfather's cycle - I know he's AA w/ a great GPA & LSAT.

[mt2165]

Again thanks. Obviously I realize that actually taking the lsat is an important part of the process and will guide my expectations. Another thing I'm slightly worried about is the logic games in the lsat. I'm really good at basic logic (sentiental, truth conditions, validity tests etc) and reading comprehension (35 ACT reading) but I struggle with the logic games, especially the more complex ones, any advice regarding this problem? Should I try to set up a program or do you think I can just study on my own?

[Dmini7]

Again thanks. Obviously I realize that actually taking the lsat is an important part of the process and will guide my expectations. Another thing I'm slightly worried about is the logic games in the lsat. I'm really good at basic logic (sentiental, truth conditions, validity tests etc) and reading comprehension (35 ACT reading) but I struggle with the logic games, especially the more complex ones, any advice regarding this problem? Should I try to set up a program or do you think I can just study on my own?

Buy the logic games bible if you have not done so already. After that just drill. Logic games is usually the easiest area to improve. A 170/3.7 as an AA male will take you almost anywhere (except possibly Yale). You will have a great cycle if it works out that way. Another question, I assume the GPA you gave us right now isn't LSDAS GPA... Do you have any A+'s? That will boost your GPA even more if you are giving us your standard GPA as demonstrated on your transcript.

[BelugaWhale]

I was a D-1 Athlete and trust me, its a good soft to have and makes you stand out. Admissions understands the NCAA 20 hr/wk commitment (and moreover, they know you put in way more time than that).

However, I did make sure that I was involved in as many other activities as possible just so I could fill up my resume with non athletic stuff. This meant, of course, joining some organizations I didn't particularly like (for instance, I became an editor for a journal not because I liked what the journal was about, but because it didn't take a lot of time and it looked good on the resume).

So make sure your summers and free time is used effectively just so you appear to be very well rounded. If you have specific questions PM me.

[mt2165]

I think my GPA is LSDAS or whatever. It includes minuses and pluses, etc. My school does not award A+'s but if they did, I believe I would have 2-3 thus far. My first summer I spent working full time, nothing exciting. A leadership position, sort of, I was the head of a department at a factory, kinda depressing.

[JamMasterJ]

If you want good loan repayment and public interest, you should consider NYU. Though since Yale seems like the perfect fit for you and a decently likely outcome if you hit 170, never mind

[Hjones33]

I think my GPA is LSDAS or whatever. It includes minuses and pluses, etc. My school does not award A+'s but if they did, I believe I would have 2-3 thus far. My first summer I spent working full time, nothing exciting. A leadership position, sort of, I was the head of a department at a factory, kinda depressing.

Honestly I don't know if it matters what you did during your summers, as long as you did something. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I did not have a job during my undergrad, even during the summers because of athletic commitments. No one brought up my lack of work experience during undergrad in an interview for law school.

[PRgradBYU]

Man, I'm excited to see how awesome of a cycle you'll have if you nail the LSAT and score in the high 160s with that 3.7 GPA. You'll be having stellar schools throw some crazy $$$$ at you. Just take a good LSAT prep course.

Edit: Don't worry about those Logic Games. That's the easiest section to improve upon. Just understand how to do every game ever made and do them all twice, and you'll breeze through that section on your LSAT.

[mt2165]

Thanks everyone. Just because I'm curious, if I could maintain a 3.6-3.7 GPA, what LSAT score would you think would get me into which respective law schools? Like what for yale, harvard/stanford, columbia, etc (the tiers regarding the top 14)

[Lacepiece23]

Thanks everyone. Just because I'm curious, if I could maintain a 3.6-3.7 GPA, what LSAT score would you think would get me into which respective law schools? Like what for yale, harvard/stanford, columbia, etc (the tiers regarding the top 14)

165 and your probably everywhere except YS... 170 your a lock everywhere.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Sup potential numbers twin. AA male, 3.6/3.7 + 170 + strong softs here. Also applying next cycle. Also applying next cycle but also retaking the LSAT in June for a higher score. Mostly because I'm weird but that's another story.

LSN and TLS consensus seems to be that my combination is lock-ish for Harvard on down. I say lock-ish because there have been URMs (though probably not AA with good softs) with those numbers rejected at Harvard and YPed at UVA/Penn/Michigan: http://www.mylsn.info/unyeqj

Though purely by the numbers with even a 165+ you become one of 50-70 African Americans in the country, total, applying during any given cycle with a 3.5+/165+ combination: Page 20 of this Fisher v. Texas amicus brief - http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

Also more analysis on specifically African Americans and law school admissions here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=195443

Harvard takes around 50-60 AAs, Yale + Stanford around 10-20 each. The rest of the T14 take whatever AAs are left. Do the math. That combination puts you in incredibly low supply and incredibly high demand. Point being, study your ass off for the LSAT and score a 165+. If you don't, retake until you do.

More analysis on this here - http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=199581

Your GPA and softs are not to be wasted on any score below that.

Best of luck.

[mt2165]

Thanks again. Another question, so I have an overloaded schedule right now, I'm taking twenty credits instead of the normal sixteen, and I'm taking a logic class that is just killing me. Personally I find the workload to be obscene (7-8 hrs/week) and I find my professor to be quite an unfair grader. Would there be any long term/substantial harm in taking this class pass/fail if I think I could reasonably earn around a B-? Also on a side note I withdrew from a class last semester basically because I did not have the prerequisite knowledge.

[dixon02]

Thanks again. Another question, so I have an overloaded schedule right now, I'm taking twenty credits instead of the normal sixteen, and I'm taking a logic class that is just killing me. Personally I find the workload to be obscene (7-8 hrs/week) and I find my professor to be quite an unfair grader. Would there be any long term/substantial harm in taking this class pass/fail if I think I could reasonably earn around a B-? Also on a side note I withdrew from a class last semester basically because I did not have the prerequisite knowledge.

There is zero harm taking one class pass/fail. You probably wouldn't want half your transcript to be p/f (though even then, who knows if schools would care, they still just want that number), but one class here and there is absolutely no problem. If you think you're going to get a B-, you should definitely take it p/f if that's an option.

[mt2165]

So questions for the brilliant masses here, I am in yet another dilemma. I am going through a really hard semester, with a lot of upper level logic and philosophy courses and my GPA might tank a tad into the 3.5 range. Considering this, I might try to apply later in this upcoming cycle (like mid jan) so that way I get another chance to improve my GPA. Is this smart at all? Considering that, typically, it is smarter to apply earlier rather than later.

[BlakcMajikc]

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[mt2165]

That makes sense. Although CC classes won't count toward my UGPA. So that wouldn't solved problem. I think I might take some summer courses through Binghamton. Guess I'll just have to try to recover this semester.