URM Female - Chances at T20?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:09 am

LSAT 164; GPA 3.68

Strong letter of recs and PS. Working on DS. I am a Hispanic Asian American female and a first generation college student.

How are my chances at getting into HYS, T10, T20? I'm actually aiming for UW in particular, but I would love a chance at higher schools... I was worried my score and GPA is way too low though.

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:47 am

Are you Mexican American or Puerto Rican? Those are generally the only two Hispanic/Latino groups that receive a URM bump.

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:56 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Are you Mexican American or Puerto Rican? Those are generally the only two Hispanic/Latino groups that receive a URM bump.


I am Cuban

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:12 am

superhopefulwoo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Are you Mexican American or Puerto Rican? Those are generally the only two Hispanic/Latino groups that receive a URM bump.


I am Cuban


Not a URM then. That being said, you have a decent chance at T30, little to no chance at T20, zero chance at T14: http://www.mylsn.info/dispresults.php

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:17 am

Weird. I could have sworn Hispanics are generally underrepresented. I put Cuban and got letters from schools writing to me about it? Maybe I misunderstood - are Hispanics not put into a general category for these decisions?

User avatar
John_rizzy_rawls
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:25 am

superhopefulwoo wrote:Weird. I could have sworn Hispanics are generally underrepresented. I put Cuban and got letters from schools writing to me about it? Maybe I misunderstood - are Hispanics not put into a general category for these decisions?


Schools want diversity, but the URM bump generally is only for four categories.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35568

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:28 am

I guess I'll have to write an amazing diversity statement *sigh* more work to do!

Anonimo
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:10 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby Anonimo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:27 pm

Cubans, like Asians, are well represented right now.

blackandstrong
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby blackandstrong » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:37 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:I guess I'll have to write an amazing diversity statement *sigh* more work to do!


Write an awesome diversity statement. Your numbers are fairly good. I think a good diversity statement may get you into some T20s -- maybe even Georgetown.

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:39 pm

Should I put Puerto Rican? I am not incredibly familiar with my Hispanic blood other than knowing I'm pretty much half Hispanic and my some of my family came from Cuba but I believe they mentioned coming from Puerto Rico before - I just didn't realize that any of that made a difference so I've never marked Puerto Rican, and I'm not sure how I could prove that.

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:46 pm

Also - is it a joke that Stanford told me my scores are competitive for their school and that I should apply?

blackandstrong
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby blackandstrong » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:48 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:Should I put Puerto Rican? I am not incredibly familiar with my Hispanic blood other than knowing I'm pretty much half Hispanic and my some of my family came from Cuba but I believe they mentioned coming from Puerto Rico before - I just didn't realize that any of that made a difference so I've never marked Puerto Rican, and I'm not sure how I could prove that.


When in doubt, don't mark something of which you're not sure. Could cause C/F issues.

blackandstrong
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby blackandstrong » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:53 pm

superhopefulwoo wrote:Also - is it a joke that Stanford told me my scores are competitive for their school and that I should apply?


Yield protection. But, hey, if you have a fee waiver, go ahead and do it.

alex.feuerman
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby alex.feuerman » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:20 pm

I am a Mexican American female and got into NYU with a 164 and a 3.5. Here's an idea, do you look Cuban or Asian? I mean, this whole URM thing....it's really about how you identify yourself right? No one is going to ask you to "prove it" (in my case, I was born in Mexico, so, pretty Mexican).
Could you just *say you're PR?
Also, I had two years WE. PM me for more info, but if you haven't graduated college maybe you should consider working for a year or two years? Maybe raise that score? I really, REALLY think my WE helped a lot. And wouldn't you rather wait one or two years for a T14 than go to a T30 now?

alex.feuerman
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby alex.feuerman » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:21 pm

blackandstrong wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:Should I put Puerto Rican? I am not incredibly familiar with my Hispanic blood other than knowing I'm pretty much half Hispanic and my some of my family came from Cuba but I believe they mentioned coming from Puerto Rico before - I just didn't realize that any of that made a difference so I've never marked Puerto Rican, and I'm not sure how I could prove that.


When in doubt, don't mark something of which you're not sure. Could cause C/F issues.


Ok this guy might have a point but what do I know

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:08 pm

Should I put Puerto Rican? I am not incredibly familiar with my Hispanic blood other than knowing I'm pretty much half Hispanic and my some of my family came from Cuba but I believe they mentioned coming from Puerto Rico before - I just didn't realize that any of that made a difference so I've never marked Puerto Rican, and I'm not sure how I could prove that.


Incredibly bad idea -- I can think of at least one individual who went off pretending to be MA for the boost when in fact he was not. He's now a disbarred grad with no JD and a ton of non-discharged debt.

alex.feuerman wrote:Here's an idea, do you look Cuban or Asian?


Oh Christ...

alex.feuerman
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby alex.feuerman » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:18 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
Should I put Puerto Rican? I am not incredibly familiar with my Hispanic blood other than knowing I'm pretty much half Hispanic and my some of my family came from Cuba but I believe they mentioned coming from Puerto Rico before - I just didn't realize that any of that made a difference so I've never marked Puerto Rican, and I'm not sure how I could prove that.


Incredibly bad idea -- I can think of at least one individual who went off pretending to be MA for the boost when in fact he was not. He's now a disbarred grad with no JD and a ton of non-discharged debt.

alex.feuerman wrote:Here's an idea, do you look Cuban or Asian?


Oh Christ...


Ok, ok DON'T LIE. My bad.

User avatar
wbrother
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby wbrother » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:10 pm

Wow. Definitely don't lie.

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:00 pm

Don't worry everyone... I wasn't planning to nor would I lie. I was just wondering how that would work because I have heard I had family in Puerto Rico - I just don't know if its enough for 'blood' and to be under that URM (because I've never marked it anyway - just always Hispanic, I usually didn't even mark Cuban)

I guess I'll double check with my father (hate calling him but this is for admissions!) and if I am... should I mark it even though I usually haven't? I did grow up with some exposure to my Hispanic culture - just the origin was not discussed.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:12 pm

If you haven't marked it in the past (i.e, undergrad, LSAT), don't mark it now. The exception to this rule is if you found out you were adopted or something, which for you is not the case. Write a diversity statement about how being peripherally PR somehow magically makes you super unique. Who knows.

Also, with a 164, the answer is retake regardless.

EDIT> I apologize for my cynicism. It just bothers me that there can be an on/off switch for race. :|

User avatar
slawww
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby slawww » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:17 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
superhopefulwoo wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Are you Mexican American or Puerto Rican? Those are generally the only two Hispanic/Latino groups that receive a URM bump.


I am Cuban


Not a URM then. That being said, you have a decent chance at T30, little to no chance at T20, zero chance at T14: http://www.mylsn.info/dispresults.php


Hispanics are underrepresented, actually. Hispanics make up 16% of the population, but only 6% of law students. Now, whether or not schools adhere to certain rules regarding which types of Hispanics receive preference is another story.

superhopefulwoo
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby superhopefulwoo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:26 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:If you haven't marked it in the past (i.e, undergrad, LSAT), don't mark it now. The exception to this rule is if you found out you were adopted or something, which for you is not the case. Write a diversity statement about how being peripherally PR somehow magically makes you super unique. Who knows.

Also, with a 164, the answer is retake regardless.

EDIT> I apologize for my cynicism. It just bothers me that there can be an on/off switch for race. :|


Hey no sweat haha I know my scores not great but I think even within my statement I'm personally amazed I'm even able to apply to law school now so I don't think its just my race :). I never got below 3.8 in my hardest classes all my last year and have worked for 2 yrs to be financial OK and make sure my mom isn't gonna die. Just a little background so you might feel a little less cynical fore at least :)

seanjohn0724
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:35 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby seanjohn0724 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:53 am

Your scores aren't bad at all. You have a very solid chance at getting into a T-20 school.

LSTfan
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:05 am

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby LSTfan » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:30 am

.
Last edited by LSTfan on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: URM Female - Chances at T20?

Postby twenty » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:09 pm

Hey no sweat haha I know my scores not great but I think even within my statement I'm personally amazed I'm even able to apply to law school now so I don't think its just my race :). I never got below 3.8 in my hardest classes all my last year and have worked for 2 yrs to be financial OK and make sure my mom isn't gonna die. Just a little background so you might feel a little less cynical fore at least :)


I have no doubt, and honestly, TLS often claims that Cuban is "URM-lite", and LSN seems to confirm this. Several posters below Harvard's "GPA floor" of 3.8 got into Harvard over the years, and they were almost always Cuban. Some T14 schools don't even let you check an MA/PR box, and only let you check Hispanic.

LSTfan wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:If you haven't marked it in the past (i.e, undergrad, LSAT), don't mark it now.


If she actually is PR, then why not? As an URM, she has T14 numbers (maybe even some money). Without, she's looking at a top 30 as a stretch school. That's a significant difference in the current job market.


Good question. First off, people on this site unfortunately assume that all URMs get the same boost. I saw a non-URM hispanic kid get Harvard last cycle with a 165/3.89, while a 169/3.8 AA male got into Harvard off the waitlist (when he should have been auto-admit). Consequently, I really don't think it's about checking a box and getting "free LSAT points", it's about actually writing a coherent and solid application that in a minority student's, regardless of URM or not, aptly describes the unique nature of their individual background. I read somewhere in Asha's YLS blog that she straight-up admitted an international student that got a 172 on the LSAT despite only having learned English at 17.

If USNWR scored schools by how many URMs they admitted, sure, maybe it would just be about checking a box -- but I think because there's no other reason for schools to give a boost to URMs aside from wanting to add diversity to the classroom, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that a non-URM hispanic student can "achieve" just as much of a boost as a URM can.

Secondly, even if you don't agree with my analysis there (tearstearstears), PRs objectively get the lowest "boost", perhaps tied with MAs. TCR for anyone with a 164, whether they're AA, PR, or white, is retake.

Finally, a racial category is definitely something you actively identify with outside of law school admissions purposes. When people asked what race OP was earlier on in this thread, OP answered "Cuban". On top of that:

but I believe they mentioned coming from Puerto Rico before


Is not exactly the same as "My grandfather was born in San Juan."

I just didn't realize that any of that made a difference so I've never marked Puerto Rican, and I'm not sure how I could prove that.


This is kind of a big deal. The student I mentioned earlier who claimed the MA boost without actually being MA had a Spanish last name because his step-father was MA. He was asked to prove it to a C&F board, and wasn't able to. If you don't feel like you could explain things to a C&F panel, then don't do anything that would put yourself in that kind of a situation.


All that to say, TCR is retake, get a 170+, get all kinds of money with the URM-lite bump. Your GPA won't keep you out of anywhere besides maybe HYS. And that's still only a maybe.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest