Latino URM 162 3.61 Forum

[dietert25]

Hey I am a Male Hispanic (Dominican) URM with a 162 on my LSAT and a 3.61 GPA. I am taking a year off before I apply and will be working for a prisoner reentry program and the ACLU chapter I started at my college along with a part time internship at a law firm. I wonder what you think chances might be at T20 and T14 specifically Cornell GW and PENN? I don't think I have a shot at NYU or Columbia (although they did send me fee waivers after my LSAT came out). I am probably going to take the LSAT again in Feb or possibly June. If I do what do think I need to give myself a real shot at CNN and then HYS? Sorry for the long post with multiple questions (paste what ever emoticon you want here).

[DportIA]

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/dportia

This was me last cycle. Very close to you!

[blackandstrong]

Don't settle. Take the year and study for the June LSAT. Shoot for a 168-170. Then, you'll be golden. Have you already taken the LSAT already or is 162 your average PT? If so, just take the LSAT again in June. You don't want to have 3 LSATs under your belt by taking in February and then June.

If you get 168-170, you'll definitely have a decent shot at HYS.

[dietert25]

162 is what I got on the October LSAT. I was PTing at 167-170. I already have a cancelled June LSAT (hope that doesn't affect much). I plan on taking it only 1 more time but not sure if June of February is better. Thinking about delaying graduation and taking a class or two more to try and boost up GPA a little but not sure if its worth it though. Your thoughts?

[blackandstrong]

162 is what I got on the October LSAT. I was PTing at 167-170. I already have a cancelled June LSAT (hope that doesn't affect much). I plan on taking it only 1 more time but not sure if June of February is better. Thinking about delaying graduation and taking a class or two more to try and boost up GPA a little but not sure if its worth it though. Your thoughts?

I don't like when people delay graduation, but I guess it's your prerogative. However, your GPA is fine -- HYS will definitely take a bite at you with a 168-170 LSAT and that GPA.

The canceled LSAT won't hurt you.

[dietert25]

I would only delay graduation for one semester since I would be graduating in the spring 2013 instead of this fall. I don't think I'll do it though I'm pretty sure the boost from a 3.61 to a 3.63 is so negligible probably not worth anything.

[TrialLawyer16]

Unfortunately, OP, I don't think you qualify as a URM. The general consensus is that the only latino URMs are Mexican and Puerto-Rican.

[dietert25]

Triallawyer I've heard mixed about my URM status. If Dominican does not qualify one as a URM then I don't understand what URM is because Dominicans are generally the most mixed ethnicity with black latino native american (Taino) blood. My dad immigrated here for college. If I don't count as a URM then which schools am I looking and or what LSAT will I need for T14?

[URMLAW]

Hey I'm also from the caribbean. Unfortunately, numbers tell us that schools might not go for you as far as they would for MA and PR. URM is not just about ethnicity but it's rather about substantial populations that are well underrepresented in the profession.

As for your Taino Blood, is kinda difficult to include it into the application unless you write it down in your DS and say something about it. I have Taino blood myself (I believe almost all of us in the Caribbean do). My grandfather was very darked skin and had taino features. I also have strong afro-carribbean heritage. Still this doesn't mean anything if you don't convey the way it has affected your upbringing and ultimately who you are. Also, let them know if you know Spanish.

If I were you I would apply to the lower t14 and some safeties. For HYS I believe you would need at least 170. Be sure you're pting at around 170 average (you don't want a 160 on your second try). I used to PT above 167+ and it all went down hill with the recents tests; make sure you complete them last.

[TrialLawyer16]

Triallawyer I've heard mixed about my URM status. If Dominican does not qualify one as a URM then I don't understand what URM is because Dominicans are generally the most mixed ethnicity with black latino native american (Taino) blood. My dad immigrated here for college. If I don't count as a URM then which schools am I looking and or what LSAT will I need for T14?

Yeah, it's pretty weird, but you can only blame your fellow over-achieving Dominicanos. URM really does mean "under-represented minority" and it appears that Mexican-Americans and Puerto-Ricans are the specific latinos that law schools believe are under-represented in law. Extensive research has been done over quite a few years on this board by thousands of people and that's the consensus we've come to. It's not like being a non-URM minority doesn't count for anything because at times you can see possible signs of a little boost, but there are many other instances when it looks like such minorities haven't gotten a boost at all. The only ones where you almost always see a noticeable boost are Black, Native American, Mexican/Mex-Am, Puerto-Rican. One of the stickies in this forum actually discusses this as well: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=35568

There have been white males accepted to T-14s with your current numbers, so it's not like you couldn't get a T-14 already, it's just pretty unlikely. I'd say with a 165 you'd have a decent shot at lower T-14's, for example Cornell. However, if I were you I'd probably aim for at least a 168 to feel comfortable, you should be almost guaranteed a T-14 at that point.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Dominican = not a URM.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 14&t=35568

[Tom Joad]

I wonder if black Dominicans can actually just check black and hispanic. It would make a world of difference.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

I wonder if black Dominicans can actually just check black and hispanic. It would make a world of difference.

Unfortunately not. Afro-Caribbean =\= African-American.

Plus, the risk of fudging this wont be pretty come C&F time for the bar.

[Tom Joad]

I wonder if black Dominicans can actually just check black and hispanic. It would make a world of difference.

Unfortunately not. Afro-Caribbean =\= African-American.

Plus, the risk of fudging this wont be pretty come C&F time for the bar.

Oh yeah, never lie. I just am not a URM and am out of the loop on the nitty gritty.

[mommalee]

I wonder if black Dominicans can actually just check black and hispanic. It would make a world of difference.

Unfortunately not. Afro-Caribbean =\= African-American.

Plus, the risk of fudging this wont be pretty come C&F time for the bar.

I am pretty sure this is false. Afro-Caribbean = African American. They are both black....... Why would you think they are different? If you are black in the islands and move here you would -------> African American

[dietert25]

I don't identify as African American but there are plenty of Dominican's with way more black/african blood in them than most African Americans, not to mention Haitians who are technically Afro-Carribean (this is the first and last time I will ever use this strange racial designation). Anyways what I am getting from this thread is that I do not count as a URM but may get some neglible bump as an other Hispanic. Also I assume that I should definitely write a Diversity statement. Since my father immigrated here from the DR and I am first generation on his side will that matter at all?

[howlery]

Have you looked at the LSAC website lately? It says that the 'Black' box is for people who have ancestors from Africa. While one can make the argument that all humans do, this is obviously meant to incorporate people who are Jamaican, Haitian, African-American, Afro-Hispanic, etc.

It is entirely possible and quite common for Dominicans to be thoroughly racially mixed. I think something like 70% of the country is biracial, though I would have to find that source again. Why wouldn't they qualify for AA, then? Especially if they aren't international applicants. Not all Dominicans identify with all of their heritage, but does this mean that those who do are not recognized as legitimate URMs?

[DaRascal]

I dunno... No Dominican I've ever met (and there's a lot in the NJ/NYC area) has identified with being black even if they were dark in appearance. I know for many of them their race is technically black but ethnically I haven't met one who identifies with African American culture.

[TrialLawyer16]

To echo what DaRascal said above, I think we all know the ethnicity box, which says "Black/African-American" mind you, is not speaking about Dominicans. It's about what you identify with. Haitians on the other hand, even though they share an island, pretty much all identify themselves as black. No Dominican I've met has ever referred to themselves as black and they identify as latino, i.e. this topic's title. In fact, in Florida I've seen many Dominicans get upset/angry when someone referred to them as black not knowing they were actually Dominican. It'd be rather ironic to see one of them check the box just to get a boost. David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez look a lot more black than Barack Obama, but Barack identifies with the ethnicity and the culture.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

To echo what DaRascal said above, I think we all know the ethnicity box, which says "Black/African-American" mind you, is not speaking about Dominicans. It's about what you identify with. Haitians on the other hand, even though they share an island, pretty much all identify themselves as black. No Dominican I've met has ever referred to themselves as black and they identify as latino, i.e. this topic's title. In fact, in Florida I've seen many Dominicans get upset/angry when someone referred to them as black not knowing they were actually Dominican. It'd be rather ironic to see one of them check the box just to get a boost. David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez look a lot more black than Barack Obama, but Barack identifies with the ethnicity and the culture.

This.

Perfect example, I don't look particularly black. Sure I have some features and darker than Caucasian complexion, but it's not as predominant as my dad's ethnic physical features. However, I do and always have associated with my mother's heritage. I was raised by her, grew up in the communities, identify with the experiences, etc, etc.

However, in regards to Howlery, if you're Dominican but associate particularly with your black heritage - in a way that can be outlined in a DS for example - then sure, go for it. But that doesn't seem to be OPs experience.

Mark what you are and what you associate with culturally. Putting anything otherwise is disingenuous and is willfully gaming the system. We're aiming to be arbiters of the law people... jeez.

[Tom Joad]

I am pretty sure URM status has nothing to do with what people identify with.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

I am pretty sure URM status has nothing to do with what people identify with.

Checking ethnic boxes doesnt. The DS statement does.

[howlery]

Well those Dominicans who get offended when people mistake them for being Black are probably wrestling with some self-loathing and racism, especially if its obvious enough that someone would make that "mistake." But, thats another discussion I won't have. My parents are both mixed, like many (if not most) Dominicans, with both of then leaning toward different ends of the spectrum. I won't be losing any sleep over being honest, and it is kind offensive to even imply that.

And, as someone else just said, the culture one identifies with is irrelevant. Do wealthy MA, PR, and AA applicants not count if they were raised by Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt? Obviously not.

[DaRascal]

I think we all know the ethnicity box, which says "Black/African-American" mind you, is not speaking about Dominicans.

Also if you're Dominican and you check the Black/African American box then what's to stop a lot of Central Americans and other Hispanics who would not otherwise get a URM boost from checking the Native American box by claiming mixed ancestry? I just think that's a blatant subversion of the intent of the URM boost.

I was always under the impression that the URM boost was meant to protect the interests of four specific underrepresented groups who have been historically shut out of the legal profession in the U.S. and who tend to score lower on average on the LSAT than their non-URM counterparts.

[dietert25]

I would really like someone to show a statistic of how many Dominicans are lawyers or are in law school because I'd be real surprised if we are more represented than PRs. I just think the fact that other Hispanics are not counted as URMs is ridiculous. It seems to me that because each individual population of other hispanics Dominicans, Colombians, Guatemalans, etc. is considered "too small" to be considered "Real URMs." I guess you have to be an extremely large minority group before URM status applies.