GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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taboo
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby taboo » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:49 pm

Gaia,

Thanks for writing this post! It is very informative and I have it bookmarked! I am in the process of studying for a retake of the LSATs and applying to law schools without any help so any information is useful. I had a bad first semester sophomore year because of the death of my grandmother and as a result my GPA fell. So my LSAC GPA will most likely be somewhere in the 3.0-3.1 range, while my undergrad GPA will be in the 3.3-3.5 range. As a gay AA male what LSAT score will I need to get into the T-14 (minus HYS)? T30? I am retaking in December and I plan to have all my applications complete before Christmas. Also, I took the LSATs in June so if I apply to schools before Thanksgiving, will they see my December LSATs scores? Or should I just wait and apply right after I take the December LSAT?

Thanks in advance for any advice and suggestions!!!

Regards,

A future T-14 law student!

lawprospie
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby lawprospie » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:15 am

bk1 wrote:
lawprospie wrote:Opportunities / support systems for URMs to do clerkships (I know SEO has one for those who successfully completey the 0L Big law program)

Being Black and Attempting to make/Making Law Review


For the first there is JTBF.

For the second I will add that some schools have diversity spots and/or diversity statements during the write-on competition, some do not.


Thanks bk1. I checked out JTBF and it looks like a great organization!


Also, GAIA no worries. I'm in no rush. Besides, I should probs work on getting admitted first :P

0913djp
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 0913djp » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:19 pm

Thanks for this post. Super useful!

subtle
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby subtle » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:25 am

Perhaps some of the SEO alum could share a bit about the process. There isn't a lot about what to expect after you've applied. I have one friend who is an alum, but I'm hesitant to keep running to her, because I'm sure she's sick of my 5 million and one questions.

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BlaqBella
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby BlaqBella » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:37 am

subtle wrote:Perhaps some of the SEO alum could share a bit about the process. There isn't a lot about what to expect after you've applied. I have one friend who is an alum, but I'm hesitant to keep running to her, because I'm sure she's sick of my 5 million and one questions.


Hey subtle, have you decided to reapply this cycle? Your LSN profile indicates attendance to CLS.

ETA: I also agree with your suggestion though it appears most of the SEO alums have ditched TLS once their admission cycle ended or stopped contributing to the forum like they use to. :(

subtle
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby subtle » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:43 am

BlaqBella wrote:
subtle wrote:Perhaps some of the SEO alum could share a bit about the process. There isn't a lot about what to expect after you've applied. I have one friend who is an alum, but I'm hesitant to keep running to her, because I'm sure she's sick of my 5 million and one questions.


Hey subtle, have you decided to reapply this cycle? Your LSN profile indicates attendance to CLS.

ETA: I also agree with your suggestion though it appears most of the SEO alums have ditched TLS once their admission cycle ended or stopped contributing to the forum like they use to. :(



Columbia has a wonderful deferral policy (feel free to shoot me a PM anyone if this is something that you're considering) that has allowed me to defer for two years. I will (finally) be starting next fall.

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20121109
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:28 am

taboo wrote:Gaia,

Thanks for writing this post! It is very informative and I have it bookmarked! I am in the process of studying for a retake of the LSATs and applying to law schools without any help so any information is useful. I had a bad first semester sophomore year because of the death of my grandmother and as a result my GPA fell. So my LSAC GPA will most likely be somewhere in the 3.0-3.1 range, while my undergrad GPA will be in the 3.3-3.5 range. As a gay AA male what LSAT score will I need to get into the T-14 (minus HYS)? T30? I am retaking in December and I plan to have all my applications complete before Christmas. Also, I took the LSATs in June so if I apply to schools before Thanksgiving, will they see my December LSATs scores? Or should I just wait and apply right after I take the December LSAT?

Thanks in advance for any advice and suggestions!!!

Regards,

A future T-14 law student!


Taboo! Thank you for being so patient with me!

My condolences for your loss. In terms of your GPA, perhaps you could consider a retroactive withdrawal? I wrote about it in the OP and it seems like your circumstances are exactly the kind that registrars are more inclined to accept. Definitely check! You lose nothing by at least trying!

I know you didn't ask, but if you manage to raise your GPA to a 3.2, you will have a good shot at H with a 172+ LSAT score. I know two AA males, one gay AA male such as yourself, who got in with a 3.2/172 and the other 3.2/170/174. Both are now working for great NYC firms! (Y/S is probably out - GPA whores lol) For CCN = 165-171. T7-T14 = 162-164. For T30, though you will be ok with a score in the 150s, I hesitate to let you settle for such a score. If a URM is striving for a top school, 160 should really be the minimum score you're willing to accept. However, during my cycle I did see a 3.4/159 AA males get Columbia with $. But I haven't see anything like it since. He was more of an exception to the rule.

Send in your applications asap, and notify the schools about your intention to take the December LSAT. They will hold your application until your new (and higher :) ) score comes through. That way as soon as your December score comes in, LSAC will send your score straight to all the schools you've applied to and your application will be considered complete and immediately put under review. Do not wait for your December LSAT to send in your applications - late applications help absolutely no one.

Good luck! Please keep in touch and let me know how it goes <3

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20121109
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Re: GtC’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:26 am

OP updated. :) Will complete by the end of the weekend! I apologize for the incremental updates! Studying abroad and stuff!

[edited #2 11/13/2012]

lawprospie wrote:Also, GAIA no worries. I'm in no rush. Besides, I should probs work on getting admitted first :P


I'm sure you'll do great and I wish you the best cycle! But please keep reminding me about your questions. For some reason I keep forgetting. I'll add placeholders in the OP for them. Thank you again :)

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Alltheirsplendor
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby Alltheirsplendor » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:59 pm

What's the financial aid like at HYS and/or other top schools? My family makes nothing (I'm not exaggerating) and something that will keep me from enrolling into law school is lack of funds.

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Rahviveh
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:17 pm

Looking forward to OCI section! In particular, how much of a boost do minorities not traditionally considered URM for admissions purposes (Asians, non-URM Hispanics, etc) get with firm hiring? I understand the URM umbrella is much bigger than it is in admssions. I am non-URM Hispanic.

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bk1
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:06 pm

Alltheirsplendor wrote:What's the financial aid like at HYS and/or other top schools? My family makes nothing (I'm not exaggerating) and something that will keep me from enrolling into law school is lack of funds.


HYS gives need aid. Not sure how they calculate exactly. You will be able to get loans for full CoA everywhere so you will not lack for funds.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:18 pm

I don't know if I missed this but I don't think you mentioned the difference in "boost" between different URM groups.

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:54 am

JamMasterJ wrote:I don't know if I missed this but I don't think you mentioned the difference in "boost" between different URM groups.
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:URM Categories and Boosts


African American/black, Native American, Puerto Rican, and Mexican American are traditionally considered URM categories for LS admissions. The extent of “boosts” received can hardly be quantified but I would say that African Americans and Native Americans tend to get the highest boosts, and in my personal opinion, African American males get the highest of them all. Some non-URM Hispanics have experienced a slight admissions boost, but it is rather inconsistent and thus harder to predict.


Do you think I need to add more? Any suggestions? :)

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:02 am

bk1 wrote:
Alltheirsplendor wrote:What's the financial aid like at HYS and/or other top schools? My family makes nothing (I'm not exaggerating) and something that will keep me from enrolling into law school is lack of funds.


HYS gives need aid. Not sure how they calculate exactly. You will be able to get loans for full CoA everywhere so you will not lack for funds.


Thanks for responding, BK <3

ATS (Hope you don't mind if I call you that!), HYS is all need-aid, meaning they do not give merit scholarships. It would be difficult to allocate merit given the high caliber of their student body! But from what I've noticed, unless you really are from a low-income family, Harvard is kinda stingy with the grants compared to Stanford and Yale. You mentioned that your family makes nothing so this may work in your favor in this context. I've seen some near full-scholly-like grants from Yale and Stanford to students of all colors, while Harvard sort of pales in comparison. Again, BK is correct; CoA loans are readily available wherever you attend law school. If you happen to attend H, once you complete the initial finaid process its incredibly easy to get more loans! So please do not worry!!

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:07 am

OP updated. :) As noted, I hope to include experiences from SEO veterans and URM students on Law Review.

[edited #3 11/13/2012]

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JamMasterJ
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:25 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:I don't know if I missed this but I don't think you mentioned the difference in "boost" between different URM groups.
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:URM Categories and Boosts


African American/black, Native American, Puerto Rican, and Mexican American are traditionally considered URM categories for LS admissions. The extent of “boosts” received can hardly be quantified but I would say that African Americans and Native Americans tend to get the highest boosts, and in my personal opinion, African American males get the highest of them all. Some non-URM Hispanics have experienced a slight admissions boost, but it is rather inconsistent and thus harder to predict.


Do you think I need to add more? Any suggestions? :)

oops, missed that :oops:

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:50 am

JamMasterJ wrote:oops, missed that :oops:


Np. Having a second set of eyes is always a good thing! <3

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:56 am

OP updated with SEO and Law Review Information. :D

Also, I wish all those taking the LSAT in a few hours the very best! I sincerely hope you're not on TLS to read this update in real time! Hahha. Please come back and tell us of your experience!

subtle
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby subtle » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:42 pm

Thanks for posting the updates on SEO!

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:29 am

OP updated with HLR Editor #2!!! :)

Xixak
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby Xixak » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:38 am

Are black-canadians considered URMs?

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:47 am

Xixak wrote:Are black-canadians considered URMs?


I've personally heard from many people and viewed cycles of international students and noticed that they have a tougher time than U.S. citizens and permanent residents. I really don't think URM internationals are treated the same as URM citizens/residents. There maybe a slight boost, but not as equivalent to the usual.

When I applied to law school without a green card, I was so uncertain of whether I would get a URM boost that it cemented my decision to retake the LSAT for a 170+. Obviously ALL applicants, whether URM or not, should aim for the highest LSAT score but for international URM students I cannot stress this enough. There is good chance you will not be considered like a US citizen/perma-res URM.

alex.feuerman
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby alex.feuerman » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:52 am

Thanks for the Guide GAIA, learned so much I didn't know!

One question - you recommend not ED'ing. Could you go into detail about this? I HAVE heard from other people that URM cycles are unpredictable. I am a Mexican (100%) woman. Me and my husband own an apartment in NYC and I love NYC so not moving. Applying to Fordham, NYU and Columbia. I have a 3.45 from a top #30 U.S. undergrad and retook the LSAT in October, hoping for a 165-172. The 3.45 is because I had a bad first semester, every semester after that I averaged a 3.7+.

Should I not ED NYU or Columbia? Depending on my final LSAT score?
Last edited by alex.feuerman on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20121109
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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby 20121109 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:47 pm

alex.feuerman wrote:Thanks for the Guide GAIA, learned so much I didn't know! I would like to participate in the SEO but I have no interest in Biglaw. (I worked in Biglaw as a paralegal for a year) Although I will have loans, and summers go by really fast so maybe I could just suck it up lol.

One question - you recommend not ED'ing. Could you go into detail about this? I HAVE heard from other people that URM cycles are unpredictable. I am a Mexican (100%) woman. Me and my husband own an apartment in NYC and I love NYC so not moving. Applying to Fordham, NYU and Columbia. I have a 3.45 from a top #30 U.S. undergrad and retook the LSAT in October, hoping for a 165-172. The 3.45 is because I had a bad first semester, every semester after that I averaged a 3.7+.

Should I not ED NYU or Columbia? Depending on my final LSAT score?


Hi Alex <3

Because you are very committed to NYC, I can see why EDing may be a very attractive option. However, three things make me loath to recommend it even in your situation. First, NYU and Columbia are very similar institutions; both amazing schools with great resources and career prospects for students. Will you be able to effectively differentiate between the two to validate your decision to ED to one but not the other? If you are more inclined to do public interest work, then some may say NYU is the better option. If you're gunning for big law, I'd say that they are equally as good. You have to consider the important factors between these two institutions before you make a commitment to either one. Which leads me to my second point - what about money? This is always an important consideration for all applicants that may be curtailed by ED. What if you get admitted to both and NYU and Columbia give you both very different scholarship/loan finaid offers and you decided to use one offer as leverage for scholly negotiations? I'm sure this would materially affect your decision if you were given the opportunity to consider both schools without EDing to either. Third, you do not know your LSAT score yet making very difficult to give you any solid advice. If you totally rocked the LSAT, I would still want you to throw apps to HYS just in case. I know you are committed to NYC, but I think you should always be open to all possibilities. If you got HYS and still wanted to be in NYC, no one would necessarily fault you for attending NYU or Columbia but after a HYS acceptance, you may reconsider your initial commitment. Again, EDing may preclude any opportunity of attending HYS.

I hope you found this helpful. :) Please come back when you have your LSAT score so we can discuss your application strategy further.

Wishing you all the best.

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Re: GAIA’s Guide to URM Admissions, 1L and OCI

Postby azjhawk05 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:25 pm

Thank you so much for posting all of this information. I am a 29yr old black male who has a masters in higher ed. I have been working for 4 years post grad school, and also worked for child protective services for 2 years following undergrad.
I really would like to go into educational law, and am interested to know what my prospects may be for ls admission with my current resume. I have a 3.1 ug gpa and a 3.9 grad school gpa. I decided this week to do some research and have found information on TLS amazingly helpful. Thank you for all of the hard work you have put in, and for giving back to this forum with your knowledge.




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