International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
Brokewave
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International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby Brokewave » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:13 pm

I go to the top UG in the country by far in Canada, and the most prestigious sub college finishing with about a 3.2-3.4 CGPA

I scored 172 on the LSAT

I am a Black Canadian.

I have extreme economic circumstances, living well below the poverty line for my whole life. Gang/Crime ridden neighborhood.

EC of working in the community with youth, mentoring and tutoring.

What are my chances at these programs?


Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UVA
Penn


Thanks guys!

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twenty
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:51 am

It appears Canadian institutions calculate grades the same way American ones do (for LSAC purposes).

This is probably fairly representative of your chances.

http://myLSN.info/dispresults.php?sk=gbu86

I'd probably ED to NYU if you can get US loans. If you can't, go to whatever T14 offers you the most money.

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:20 pm

Brokewave wrote:I go to the top UG in the country by far in Canada, and the most prestigious sub college finishing with about a 3.2-3.4 CGPA

I scored 172 on the LSAT

I am a Black Canadian.

I have extreme economic circumstances, living well below the poverty line for my whole life. Gang/Crime ridden neighborhood.

EC of working in the community with youth, mentoring and tutoring.

What are my chances at these programs?


Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
UVA
Penn


Thanks guys!


Do not ED anywhere given that you have a strong shot at most T14 schools and you seem to suggest you're willing to attend any of the T14. More importantly, you will certainly be given $$$$ due to your numbers.

Most Likely Out (but still throw an app their way)
Yale

Decent Shot (can go either way)
Harvard
Stanford

Strong Shot
Columbia
Chicago

Definitely in
NYU
UVA
Penn

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twenty
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:49 pm

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/growlithe

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/lamar24

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/elieli

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bazoogakitty

Blaq is too optimistic.


Decent Shot (can go either way) Unlikely.
Harvard
Stanford

Strong Shot About 50/50 you'll get one of these.
Columbia
Chicago

Definitely in Strong chance.
NYU
UVA
Penn

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:58 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:http://lawschoolnumbers.com/growlithe

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/lamar24

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/elieli

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bazoogakitty

Blaq is too optimistic.


None of the above samples indicate being specifically AA URMs, just URMS.

If the previous cycles are indicative of anything, it is that most AA URMs with a 3.0 or above GPA and 160 or above LSAT score have a solid chance of admittance into a T14.

On TLS I've seen Stanford admit 3.5/168 AA females, Harvard 3.2/170 AA male and a 3.4/170 AA female and Yale a 3.7/159 AA male.

The cycle for AA/black applicants is never set in stone. Anything is possible.

As for being too optimistic, so be it. All URMs should be presumptuous with their hopes and dreams. Law school and the profession demands it.
Last edited by BlaqBella on Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:00 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:http://lawschoolnumbers.com/growlithe

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/lamar24

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/elieli

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bazoogakitty

Blaq is too optimistic.


Decent Shot (can go either way) Unlikely.
Harvard
Stanford

Strong Shot About 50/50 you'll get one of these.
Columbia
Chicago

Definitely in Strong chance.
NYU
UVA
Penn



LOL. OP, take the above with a grain of salt.

Just apply everywhere. Given the average LSAT score of AA/black applicants of 146 or thereabouts, your LSAT score is an amazing rarity and schools will be fighting over you on that basis alone.

Keep us posted!!

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twenty
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:07 pm

I apologize if I seem like I came off harsh. I just think it would suck if OP figured "Oh, I'm getting accepted everywhere with full rides!" if/when that didn't happen. :p

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:17 am

twentypercentmore wrote:I apologize if I seem like I came off harsh. I just think it would suck if OP figured "Oh, I'm getting accepted everywhere with full rides!" if/when that didn't happen. :p


That was never explicitly stated or implied on my part.

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dresden doll
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby dresden doll » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:31 am

I would not go assuming that the URM boost applies to international students. Apply everywhere you'd like, but don't expect to get farther than MBVP.

Brokewave
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby Brokewave » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:17 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:I apologize if I seem like I came off harsh. I just think it would suck if OP figured "Oh, I'm getting accepted everywhere with full rides!" if/when that didn't happen. :p


That was never explicitly stated or implied on my part.


I appreciate your input! I am now very optimistic, going to try and boost my GPA but I feel very confident now !

twentypercentmore wrote:I apologize if I seem like I came off harsh. I just think it would suck if OP figured "Oh, I'm getting accepted everywhere with full rides!" if/when that didn't happen. :p

Not at all! I appreciate all inputs! Even your view has me very optimistic!

dresden doll wrote:I would not go assuming that the URM boost applies to international students. Apply everywhere you'd like, but don't expect to get farther than MBVP.


I assume it does because the "URM Boost" is not an official program, but a phenomena that occurs in applications, therefore it is holistic and varies from school to school. Schools don't get additional funding for having URM's, or anything for that matter, its simply for their own statistical purposes.

mvpforme
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby mvpforme » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:19 pm

Blanket t14. Do not ED.

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mths
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby mths » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:20 pm

dresden doll wrote:I would not go assuming that the URM boost applies to international students. Apply everywhere you'd like, but don't expect to get farther than MBVP.

It does apply as far as I have seen.

Brokewave
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby Brokewave » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:22 pm

mvpforme wrote:Blanket t14. Do not ED.


Why not ED? Just curious because I have heard this before, what is the rationale?

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 pm

Brokewave wrote:I assume it does because the "URM Boost" is not an official program, but a phenomena that occurs in applications, therefore it is holistic and varies from school to school. Schools don't get additional funding for having URM's, or anything for that matter, its simply for their own statistical purposes.


From one black applicant to another: it does not matter your nationality or place of birth. What people fail to realize is that the African diaspora is not only encompassed by African Americans :lol: .

After all is said and done, a black applicant will be welcomed and embraced by most law schools, especially those with such a stellar LSAT score as yours. Great job and watch the acceptances roll in!

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:26 pm

Brokewave wrote:
mvpforme wrote:Blanket t14. Do not ED.


Why not ED? Just curious because I have heard this before, what is the rationale?


$$$$ purposes. It's like placing all your eggs in one basket and giving that one school the last say on your fate. By doing this they can then decide to not give you the maximum amount of scholarship/free money as you have agreed to attend their school regardless of how much it will cost you.

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dresden doll
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby dresden doll » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:15 am

BlaqBella wrote:What people fail to realize is that the African diaspora is not only encompassed by African Americans :lol: .


I think you fail to realize that there can be reasons for not giving URM boosts to international students that have nothing to do with membership in the 'African diaspora.'

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:17 am

dresden doll wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:What people fail to realize is that the African diaspora is not only encompassed by African Americans :lol: .


I think you fail to realize that there can be reasons for not giving URM boosts to international students that have nothing to do with membership in the 'African diaspora.'


Such as?

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dresden doll
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby dresden doll » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:18 am

BlaqBella wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:What people fail to realize is that the African diaspora is not only encompassed by African Americans :lol: .


I think you fail to realize that there can be reasons for not giving URM boosts to international students that have nothing to do with membership in the 'African diaspora.'


Such as?


Such as the fact that, in part, purpose of the URM boost is to make law schools more representative of the population at large. That population is the population of the United States as a country, not the population of planet Earth.

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BlaqBella
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby BlaqBella » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:29 am

dresden doll wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:What people fail to realize is that the African diaspora is not only encompassed by African Americans :lol: .


I think you fail to realize that there can be reasons for not giving URM boosts to international students that have nothing to do with membership in the 'African diaspora.'


Such as?


Such as the fact that, in part, purpose of the URM boost is to make law schools more representative of the population at large. That population is the population of the United States as a country, not the population of planet Earth.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You are aware the US of A is a nation of immigrants benefitting from the same boost? Case in point: black students borne and bred in African and Caribbean countries who immigrate to the US of A and then apply as a black applicant to law school.

How is a Black Canadian any different from the above?

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dresden doll
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby dresden doll » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:41 am

BlaqBella wrote:You are aware the US of A is a nation of immigrants benefitting from the same boost? Case in point: black students borne and bred in African and Caribbean countries who immigrate to the US of A and then apply as a black applicant to law school.

How is a Black Canadian any different from the above?


I think you're unaware of the distinct difference between applying as a US citizen/permanent resident and applying as an international student (hint: the latter have not immigrated to the US of A, hence why they're treated as international students, i.e. people who are in the country on a nonimmigrant visa. You're aware that F1 is a nonimmigrant visa, right?). I've gone through the process of applying to American institutions of higher education both as former and as latter so I know really well what I'm talking about.

Furthermore, I'm not getting pulled into some retarded normative discussion over whether international students should get the URM boosts. I'm just stating that OP shouldn't jump to conclusion that he will receive the boost. There are some pretty interesting threads in TLS archives where people debated whether there was such a thing as URM boost for AA international applicants. Some, who had applied to lawl schools as AA internationals, claimed there was; others, who had done the same, claimed there was not. No one debates whether there is URM boost in general, because it's clear that there is. The fact that there's been healthy debating over whether there is such a boost when it comes to international students should cue in a reasonable person that policies may well vary from school to school/ applicant to applicant.

In short, my advice - which was to apply everywhere OP would like to attend but have moderate expectations - stands.

Brokewave
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Re: International Student, Extreme Circumstances.

Postby Brokewave » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:17 pm

Yeah I totally understand both your ponts, and thats why I'm confused and made this thread :)

I think that the "URM boost" is not quantitative thing, otherwise potential applicants would just submit a DNA test indicating their blackness, and the blacker the applicant the bigger the boost on a chart : :lol:

Since there is a diversity statement and other written personal assessments of each persons situation, I feel as if a "boost" is applied to whichever applicant they see fit. This is also why I included the socio-economic information, as I feel that would give me some kind of boost in conjunction with my being Black. Theoretically, there's nothing that says that any given AA candidate would get a boost, but we just assume so due to historical data.

I would like to see those threads @Dresden, and I appreciate both your inputs! Very enlightening discussion!




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