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(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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emkay625
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby emkay625 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:34 am

minnbills wrote:
tmon wrote:Similarly, how would this really work for C&F. Admittedly, I know little to nothing about it aside from "don't be an idiot, disclose if you're unsure," but if you had a justifiable reason and it was a weird situation and you stuck to your guns, how would they be able to tell you otherwise? Would they actually ask for proof of race?


My aunt took the bar in NY and never had to prove anything. She got a scholarship to her school for claiming she was Puerto Rican (latino? don't remember what exactly) even though her dad was spanish and only lived there for a few years as a kid. She felt guilty about it but it was never an issue for her.


I imagine it was not an issue because she clearly looks Hispanic, so people did not question. If OP claimed to be 1/2 black but is 100% Asian, it might raise some more flags.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Stanford4Me » Fri May 11, 2012 12:35 am

If being half black makes you "black," then having one drop should also make you black.

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20121109
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby 20121109 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:35 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:
hichvichwoh wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
dresden doll wrote:If you have some black blood in you, you didn't lie. People here keep forgetting that adcomms practice the one drop rule.


I'm not sure if this post is serious. Is one drop really sufficient?


yep. it's pretty sweet for the 1/64th native americans


I'm 1/8th black. (great grandpa is black). I did not find this out until two weeks ago, as my family was all at the hospital for my dad, and my grandma told me then.

I still don't believe the one drop rule is TCR. Can anyone verify?


You're fine. You can identify as black.

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Br3v
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Br3v » Fri May 11, 2012 12:35 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:OP's post is ambiguous, so any advice would be somewhat speculative. I won't lock it , but OP should PM me to clarify certain things. All I know, is just yesterday he was not going to apply till next cycle. All of a sudden he's accepted to a t-10?

mmmmmmmmk.


Did OP already apply this cycle? As URM?

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emkay625
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby emkay625 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:36 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:OP's post is ambiguous, so any advice would be somewhat speculative. I won't lock it , but OP should PM me to clarify certain things. All I know, is just yesterday he was not going to apply till next cycle. All of a sudden he's accepted to a t-10?

mmmmmmmmk.


Oh. nevermind.

OP, are you just looking for advice? You didn't need to make up a story to get it.

AP-375
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby AP-375 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:36 am

With a question as serious as this, you should contact a character & fitness lawyer and ask your question, because he or she might actually know more than anyone here.

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tmon
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby tmon » Fri May 11, 2012 12:37 am

minnbills wrote:
tmon wrote:Similarly, how would this really work for C&F. Admittedly, I know little to nothing about it aside from "don't be an idiot, disclose if you're unsure," but if you had a justifiable reason and it was a weird situation and you stuck to your guns, how would they be able to tell you otherwise? Would they actually ask for proof of race?


My aunt took the bar in NY and never had to prove anything. She got a scholarship to her school for claiming she was Puerto Rican (latino? don't remember what exactly) even though her dad was spanish and only lived there for a few years as a kid. She felt guilty about it but it was never an issue for her.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'd expect. Though I wonder if things like C&F have gotten more stringent as far as making you prove stuff like this. Probably not.

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minnbills
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby minnbills » Fri May 11, 2012 12:39 am

emkay625 wrote:
I imagine it was not an issue because she clearly looks Hispanic, so people did not question. If OP claimed to be 1/2 black but is 100% Asian, it might raise some more flags.


Haha actually one of the stipulations of her scholarship was to be a part of the hispanic/latino student group. So she was there with a bunch of NYC puerto ricans (a la west side story) and stuck out like a sore thumb- she said she got a lot of dirty looks because they figured it out.

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20121109
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby 20121109 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:39 am

Br3v wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:OP's post is ambiguous, so any advice would be somewhat speculative. I won't lock it , but OP should PM me to clarify certain things. All I know, is just yesterday he was not going to apply till next cycle. All of a sudden he's accepted to a t-10?

mmmmmmmmk.


Did OP already apply this cycle? As URM?


I don't know: his story 24 hours ago conflicts with this new tale. I'm not about to disclose all that we discussed but this discrepancy, his extremely low post count, and the obvious alt, makes me not want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Danteshek
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Danteshek » Fri May 11, 2012 12:44 am

this is almost as good as white african americans from south africa

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Tom Joad
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Tom Joad » Fri May 11, 2012 12:47 am

Danteshek wrote:this is almost as good as white african americans from south africa

Somebody has had to do that one before, thinking they were within the rule but outside its spirit. I wonder how it turned out for them.

Brassica7
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Brassica7 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:52 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:
hichvichwoh wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
dresden doll wrote:If you have some black blood in you, you didn't lie. People here keep forgetting that adcomms practice the one drop rule.


I'm not sure if this post is serious. Is one drop really sufficient?


yep. it's pretty sweet for the 1/64th native americans


I'm 1/8th black. (great grandpa is black). I did not find this out until two weeks ago, as my family was all at the hospital for my dad, and my grandma told me then.

I still don't believe the one drop rule is TCR. Can anyone verify?


The "one drop" approach to determining if someone is black has a long history. My understanding is that it was used at least as far back as colonial America and Mexico to determine people's ethnicity, usually by discriminating white people. There was an idea that someone who was partially Native American/Indian but mostly European was still white, but if s/he had any African ancestry, they could never be white. Today, some African Americans use this same standard, but with the goal of including people in the black community (rather than than as a tool to exclude, which is how white colonial people often used it).

As far as law applications, I doubt anyone in the school administration will tell you that you are not black enough. If you identify as black, I think you could check that box on your applications.

shoeshine
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby shoeshine » Fri May 11, 2012 12:54 am

This is definitely a flame.

However, I have heard rumors about your bar application being compared to you law school application for C & F. This may be an issue if you only identify as Asian in the future.

Also, a rather annoying feature of my T10 is that all the people who identified as minorities are contacted by the student "identity" groups which they are a part of. If they contact you and later find out you are Asian they will know something is up.

However, most people don't care or are too afraid of offending someone to ask about their race so the only way I see you getting trouble is if you admit it.

Napt
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Napt » Fri May 11, 2012 12:55 am

(Elizabeth Warren)

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dowu
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby dowu » Fri May 11, 2012 12:57 am

Brassica7 wrote:
The "one drop" approach to determining if someone is black has a long history. My understanding is that it was used at least as far back as colonial America and Mexico to determine people's ethnicity, usually by discriminating white people. There was an idea that someone who was partially Native American/Indian but mostly European was still white, but if s/he had any African ancestry, they could never be white. Today, some African Americans use this same standard, but with the goal of including people in the black community (rather than than as a tool to exclude, which is how white colonial people often used it).

As far as law applications, I doubt anyone in the school administration will tell you that you are not black enough. If you identify as black, I think you could check that box on your applications.


Okay, but my thing is is that this is new information to me; I just recently found out that my great-grandfather was black two weeks ago. So, can I use this in my application? I obviously dont look black, since Im raising the question, but I think that it would be a disservice to myself to totally neglect this fact. I mainly considered myself mexican, as both my parents are mexican, but my father and grandmother have both confirmed that my great-grandpa was black.

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but since we're on the topic...

shoeshine
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby shoeshine » Fri May 11, 2012 12:59 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:
Brassica7 wrote:
The "one drop" approach to determining if someone is black has a long history. My understanding is that it was used at least as far back as colonial America and Mexico to determine people's ethnicity, usually by discriminating white people. There was an idea that someone who was partially Native American/Indian but mostly European was still white, but if s/he had any African ancestry, they could never be white. Today, some African Americans use this same standard, but with the goal of including people in the black community (rather than than as a tool to exclude, which is how white colonial people often used it).

As far as law applications, I doubt anyone in the school administration will tell you that you are not black enough. If you identify as black, I think you could check that box on your applications.


Okay, but my thing is is that this is new information to me; I just recently found out that my great-grandfather was black two weeks ago. So, can I use this in my application? I obviously dont look black, since Im raising the question, but I think that it would be a disservice to myself to totally neglect this fact. I mainly considered myself mexican, as both my parents are mexican, but my father and grandmother have both confirmed that my great-grandpa was black.

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but since we're on the topic...


shoeshine wrote: I have heard rumors about your bar application being compared to you law school application for C & F. This may be an issue if you only identify as Asian Mexican in the future.

Also, a rather annoying feature of my T10 is that all the people who identified as minorities are contacted by the student "identity" groups which they are a part of. If they contact you and later find out you are Asian Mexican they will know something is up.

However, most people don't care or are too afraid of offending someone to ask about their race. So the only way I see you getting trouble is if you admit to it.

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minnbills
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby minnbills » Fri May 11, 2012 1:00 am

I'd say if you've never identified with that group, it wouldn't be right.

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20121109
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby 20121109 » Fri May 11, 2012 1:01 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:
Brassica7 wrote:
The "one drop" approach to determining if someone is black has a long history. My understanding is that it was used at least as far back as colonial America and Mexico to determine people's ethnicity, usually by discriminating white people. There was an idea that someone who was partially Native American/Indian but mostly European was still white, but if s/he had any African ancestry, they could never be white. Today, some African Americans use this same standard, but with the goal of including people in the black community (rather than than as a tool to exclude, which is how white colonial people often used it).

As far as law applications, I doubt anyone in the school administration will tell you that you are not black enough. If you identify as black, I think you could check that box on your applications.


Okay, but my thing is is that this is new information to me; I just recently found out that my great-grandfather was black two weeks ago. So, can I use this in my application? I obviously dont look black, since Im raising the question, but I think that it would be a disservice to myself to totally neglect this fact. I mainly considered myself mexican, as both my parents are mexican, but my father and grandmother have both confirmed that my great-grandpa was black.

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but since we're on the topic...


You're Mexican and black. You're fine. It may be new information, but it is perfectly legitimate. You haven't fabricated anything. People may have moral objections but that is their opinion. For LS admissions, you can identify as black.

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dowu
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby dowu » Fri May 11, 2012 1:02 am

shoeshine wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
Brassica7 wrote:
The "one drop" approach to determining if someone is black has a long history. My understanding is that it was used at least as far back as colonial America and Mexico to determine people's ethnicity, usually by discriminating white people. There was an idea that someone who was partially Native American/Indian but mostly European was still white, but if s/he had any African ancestry, they could never be white. Today, some African Americans use this same standard, but with the goal of including people in the black community (rather than than as a tool to exclude, which is how white colonial people often used it).

As far as law applications, I doubt anyone in the school administration will tell you that you are not black enough. If you identify as black, I think you could check that box on your applications.


Okay, but my thing is is that this is new information to me; I just recently found out that my great-grandfather was black two weeks ago. So, can I use this in my application? I obviously dont look black, since Im raising the question, but I think that it would be a disservice to myself to totally neglect this fact. I mainly considered myself mexican, as both my parents are mexican, but my father and grandmother have both confirmed that my great-grandpa was black.

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but since we're on the topic...


shoeshine wrote: I have heard rumors about your bar application being compared to you law school application for C & F. This may be an issue if you only identify as Asian Mexican in the future.

Also, a rather annoying feature of my T10 is that all the people who identified as minorities are contacted by the student "identity" groups which they are a part of. If they contact you and later find out you are Asian Mexican they will know something is up.

However, most people don't care or are too afraid of offending someone to ask about their race. So the only way I see you getting trouble is if you admit to it.



Shoeshine, Im sorry, but I don't know what you're implying. Can you be a little more explicit? Serious business is serious business.

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Neatrends
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby Neatrends » Fri May 11, 2012 1:05 am

minnbills wrote:I'd say if you've never identified with that group, it wouldn't be right.


How can someone identify with a group they didnt know they were a part of until a couple of weeks ago?

Even if C&F did notice a discrepancy (Identified as mexican for law school, now identifying as mexican and black) the fact that knowledge of their black heritage wasn't acquired until after applying to law school would explain things more than sufficiently.

shoeshine
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby shoeshine » Fri May 11, 2012 1:07 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:Shoeshine, Im sorry, but I don't know what you're implying. Can you be a little more explicit? Serious business is serious business.


I was just saying that the only way you run into problems is when you identify as something and have never identified as that before or later stop identifying as that (see Elizabeth Warren). Some states look for inconsistencies like that for the C&F portion of the bar exam.

It really won't effect you in law school except for the fact that the student "identity" group that you identified with may contact you and invite you to events and stuff. They basically get a list of people who identified as their race and if they meet you and have reason to think you lied about your race then things will be awkward. But most students will not ask you about your race so that is unlikely to happen.

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minnbills
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby minnbills » Fri May 11, 2012 1:10 am

Neatrends wrote:
minnbills wrote:I'd say if you've never identified with that group, it wouldn't be right.


How can someone identify with a group they didnt know they were a part of until a couple of weeks ago?

Even if C&F did notice a discrepancy (Identified as mexican for law school, now identifying as mexican and black) the fact that knowledge of their black heritage wasn't acquired until after applying to law school would explain things more than sufficiently.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the purpose of affirmative action was to help traditionally disadvantaged communities, if someone's never been a part of that community I don't think it would be right to suddenly identify with it for the purpose of improving your chances at admission.

GAIA's right that it's legit in the sense that you won't get in trouble for it, but to me it seems like taking advantage.

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20121109
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby 20121109 » Fri May 11, 2012 1:12 am

Neatrends wrote:
minnbills wrote:I'd say if you've never identified with that group, it wouldn't be right.


How can someone identify with a group they didnt know they were a part of until a couple of weeks ago?

Even if C&F did notice a discrepancy (Identified as mexican for law school, now identifying as mexican and black) the fact that knowledge of their black heritage wasn't acquired until after applying to law school would explain things more than sufficiently.


Jesus Christ. We're nearly full circle of URM threads all coalesced into one.

Started with a potential C&F-failing thread, turned out to be your neighborhood flame thread, then it morphed into your common URM crisis identity thread, and now we're about to pontificate about whether such identification is morally acceptable. Great, now all we need is an all out AA debate.

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minnbills
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby minnbills » Fri May 11, 2012 1:14 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Jesus Christ. We're nearly full circle of URM threads all coalesced into one.

Started with a potential C&F-failing thread, turned out to be your neighborhood flame thread, then it morphed into your common URM crisis identity thread, and now we're about to pontificate about whether such identification is morally acceptable. Great, now all we need is an all out AA debate.


In a thread concerning whether or not it's okay to lie about URM status? It was bound to happen.

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20121109
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Re: Lied about race...accepted to t-10. now what?

Postby 20121109 » Fri May 11, 2012 1:19 am

minnbills wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Jesus Christ. We're nearly full circle of URM threads all coalesced into one.

Started with a potential C&F-failing thread, turned out to be your neighborhood flame thread, then it morphed into your common URM crisis identity thread, and now we're about to pontificate about whether such identification is morally acceptable. Great, now all we need is an all out AA debate.


In a thread concerning whether or not it's okay to lie about URM status? It was bound to happen.


True lol...As long as everyone remains civil and it doesn't devolve into an AA debate, the discourse will not disturbed. TLS is supposed to facilitate discussion after all.




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