Possibly racist professor - What to do?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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1800calturk
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby 1800calturk » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:43 pm

kaiser wrote:Sorry I humored the troll. Hopefully we can get this discussion back on track.

whoops my bad.

Napt
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby Napt » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:44 pm

kaiser wrote:Sorry I humored the troll. Hopefully we can get this discussion back on track.

Tbf, I'm not a troll. Back on topic, to OP - John Derbyshire said that whites should befriend intelligent and well-socialized blacks [IWSBs], like yourself, so the prof would prob like you if he took Derb's advice. "You should consciously seek opportunities to make friends with IWSBs. In addition to the ordinary pleasures of friendship, you will gain an amulet against potentially career-destroying accusations of prejudice." Not bad, I think you'll enjoy his class. Have fun breh.

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ben4847
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby ben4847 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:55 pm

I want to add another reason why we shouldn't racially profile, and this one actually will distinguish between when whites do so, and when blacks do so.

The reason is, that "who started it" does matter. And whites did start it. It is bizarre for whites to first incite blacks to be hostile towards them, and then use that the hostility as reason to act prejudicial towards them--even if the prejudice would be rational. On the other hand, it does make sense for blacks to be prejudicial if it is rational--unless you think there are other reasons to not racially profile, like I mentioned above.

kaiser
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby kaiser » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:58 pm

ben4847 wrote:I want to add another reason why we shouldn't racially profile, and this one actually will distinguish between when whites do so, and when blacks do so.

The reason is, that "who started it" does matter. And whites did start it. It is bizarre for whites to first incite blacks to be hostile towards them, and then use that the hostility as reason to act prejudicial towards them--even if the prejudice would be rational. On the other hand, it does make sense for blacks to be prejudicial if it is rational--unless you think there are other reasons to not racially profile, like I mentioned above.


I understand, but we can't look at groups as a whole over the course of centuries. Whites have undoubtedly been inciting much of the hostility from centuries of mistreatment. But to a white who was born in the past few decades, he/she is not responsible for that hostility. So why should he/she be unable to respond how one feels appropriate based on that person's limited point of view (i.e. based on that person's actual experience, and not based on our objective knowledge of history)?

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1800calturk
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby 1800calturk » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:08 pm

kaiser wrote:
ben4847 wrote:I want to add another reason why we shouldn't racially profile, and this one actually will distinguish between when whites do so, and when blacks do so.

The reason is, that "who started it" does matter. And whites did start it. It is bizarre for whites to first incite blacks to be hostile towards them, and then use that the hostility as reason to act prejudicial towards them--even if the prejudice would be rational. On the other hand, it does make sense for blacks to be prejudicial if it is rational--unless you think there are other reasons to not racially profile, like I mentioned above.


I understand, but we can't look at groups as a whole over the course of centuries. Whites have undoubtedly been inciting much of the hostility from centuries of mistreatment. But to a white who was born in the past few decades, he/she is not responsible for that hostility. So why should he/she be unable to respond how one feels appropriate based on that person's limited point of view (i.e. based on that person's actual experience, and not based on our objective knowledge of history)?


I actually agree, we need to stop looking at people as groups. The slavery thing is old, everyone owned someone else as slaves, and I have white friends whose families had nothing to do with anything prejudicial, like their families immigrated in the 90's. But the problem is that there's institutional prejudices you can't just bury your head under the sand from. When a white person walks in an interview,they are just a candidate. When a black person walks in, they are a black candidate. To be honest, in a lot of situations that has started to work in my favor, but it doesn't change the fact that there's still a lot of people who are uneasy around me and don't see me as a potential close friend or whatever just because of the color of my skin, and that doesn't happen to you. It's subtle - maybe you and your friends like making racist jokes here and there. Maybe you don't hate, but like there's a particularly funny joke, about slavery or black guys or whatever, and around me you'd feel like you have to watch yourself. Like with all your white friends, when N-ggas in Paris comes on you can belt out the lyrisc, but if I'm in your car all of a sudden it's real awkward because I'm the only one who can say that word. That kind of discomfort can turn into subtle exclusions that non-minorities don't deal with. I mean, all minorities deal with this, even the model ones.

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PARTY
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby PARTY » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:09 pm

1800calturk wrote:I actually agree, we need to stop looking at people as groups.


never going to happen.

ever hear of the psychological phenomenon termed "intergroup bias"?

SEE: --LinkRemoved--

Napt
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby Napt » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:14 pm

ben4847 wrote:I want to add another reason why we shouldn't racially profile, and this one actually will distinguish between when whites do so, and when blacks do so.

The reason is, that "who started it" does matter. And whites did start it. It is bizarre for whites to first incite blacks to be hostile towards them, and then use that the hostility as reason to act prejudicial towards them--even if the prejudice would be rational. On the other hand, it does make sense for blacks to be prejudicial if it is rational--unless you think there are other reasons to not racially profile, like I mentioned above.

Breh, can you explain this further? It's not okay for whites to be rationally prejudiced against blacks but it is okay for blacks to be rationally prejudiced against whites? Idgi.

kaiser
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby kaiser » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:19 pm

1800calturk wrote:I actually agree, we need to stop looking at people as groups. The slavery thing is old, everyone owned someone else as slaves, and I have white friends whose families had nothing to do with anything prejudicial, like their families immigrated in the 90's. But the problem is that there's institutional prejudices you can't just bury your head under the sand from. When a white person walks in an interview,they are just a candidate. When a black person walks in, they are a black candidate. To be honest, in a lot of situations that has started to work in my favor, but it doesn't change the fact that there's still a lot of people who are uneasy around me and don't see me as a potential close friend or whatever just because of the color of my skin, and that doesn't happen to you. It's subtle - maybe you and your friends like making racist jokes here and there. Maybe you don't hate, but like there's a particularly funny joke, about slavery or black guys or whatever, and around me you'd feel like you have to watch yourself. Like with all your white friends, when N-ggas in Paris comes on you can belt out the lyrisc, but if I'm in your car all of a sudden it's real awkward because I'm the only one who can say that word. That kind of discomfort can turn into subtle exclusions that non-minorities don't deal with. I mean, all minorities deal with this, even the model ones.


I don't disagree with anything you say, and of course these institutional prejudices need to be addressed, but I was commenting on something a lot more limited in scope: this idea of being unable to respond to hostility and prejudice since it was whites who incited the hostility and fear in the black community in the first place through centuries of mistreatment. Lets take the example of a caucasian who immigrated here in the 70's or 80's. It just seems a bit odd to me that this person, if faced with hostility from blacks or from black communities, should be unable to respond to it simply due to something that neither he nor his ancestors is responsible for. I just can't accept the notion that the prejudice on one side is allowable whereas reactionary prejudice (and yes, it would be reactionary since this person just recently came to this country) would be inappropriate.

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bk1
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Re: Possibly racist professor - What to do?

Postby bk1 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:32 pm

OP's gotten some good advice (mainly the first page). This thread has veered horribly off topic and isn't gonna return. If anybody feels like continuing to debate race there's an AA thread in the lounge, go knock yourselves out.




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