go to Seattle U or wait

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
galiyagaliya
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:50 pm

go to Seattle U or wait

Postby galiyagaliya » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:51 pm

I just accepted for the alternative admission program in Seattle U. I have 3.83 GPA but my LSAT is 149; however, I took test once and haven't prepared for it properly because I owned business and didn't have time for LSAT. Now I have a dilemma whether go to SU (no $$ at all) and have a huge debt after graduation or wait another year and apply again. SU was only school I applied this year since my score was very low.

SuchGr8Heights
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:22 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:20 pm

That's completely up to you. If you know you want to get started ASAP and can afford the debt that comes with it, then do that. If you're playing the long-game and think it's worth taking off the next year, then do that. Also, Seattle has scholarships for students who end up in the top 25% (I think $14,000 for your second year). And just a warning, you will have people reply on here "don't even bother going there at all! you won't get a job anyways!" And I say to not listen to those people. YOU WILL GET A JOB. Maybe I'll be seeing you in the fall at Seattle?

AffordablePrep
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:27 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby AffordablePrep » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:35 pm

Dude, you are a URM with a 3.8+ GPA. You also got a 149 with very little prep.

Here are the facts:

If you got to Seattle at sticker, there is a very strong chance (above 50%) you won't get any kind of legal job, and come out with over 200k in debt. In other words, there's a very good chance you'll be in worse shape than if you decided to spend your career at K-Mart, and had no ambition whatsoever.

On the positive end, if you got a 149 without tutoring, a prep course, reading the bibles or even taking practice tests, you could easily break a 160 with 2-3 months of moderate studying. A URM with a 3.8+ and a 160+, and you will be able to get into the top 14, probably the top 10, or get a massive scholarship from the University of Washington in which case you'll graduate with probably around 70% less debt, and much better career prospects.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby PDaddy » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:36 pm

galiyagaliya wrote:I just accepted for the alternative admission program in Seattle U. I have 3.83 GPA but my LSAT is 149; however, I took test once and haven't prepared for it properly because I owned business and didn't have time for LSAT. Now I have a dilemma whether go to SU (no $$ at all) and have a huge debt after graduation or wait another year and apply again. SU was only school I applied this year since my score was very low.


Take the year off and try to get some practice in. Even if you only get to 160-165, that will open up a host of other options and free money for you. Don't waste that GPA. 149 is a good start for no prep. You're already at the 50th percentile. I have seen people jump from 149 to 160 with just a little work, and 170+ with intensive study.

You wait a year, get up to 160+ and you are looking at all of the very top schools in the nation.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AffordablePrep
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:27 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby AffordablePrep » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:38 pm

PDaddy wrote:
galiyagaliya wrote:I just accepted for the alternative admission program in Seattle U. I have 3.83 GPA but my LSAT is 149; however, I took test once and haven't prepared for it properly because I owned business and didn't have time for LSAT. Now I have a dilemma whether go to SU (no $$ at all) and have a huge debt after graduation or wait another year and apply again. SU was only school I applied this year since my score was very low.


Take the year off and try to get some practice in. Even if you only get to 160-165, that will open up a host of other options and free money for you. Don't waste that GPA.

URM with a 3.8. If he gets a 160-165, he can get a full ride to UW.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby PDaddy » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:43 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:
URM with a 3.8. If he gets a 160-165, he can get a full ride to UW.


But why stop at UW when he can go to Columbia or NYU...or Berkeley or Northwestern, which would absolutely LOVE his work experience? Michigan...UVA...Duke...Cornell...they all take male URM's with those stas and give decent scholarships.

I'd go to a lower-T14 with 75% or mid-high T14 - i.e. "non-HYS" - with 50% over UW full ride any day. I do realize that people with a strong regional preference for the pacific northwest might not necessarily agree. The work experience and regional diversity factors will be great softs. He should be looking far beyond UW unless he just wants to go there.

Keep in mind that HYS would also be options (not guarantees), but the money might not be as enticing (25% grant money maybe).

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3153
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby twenty » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:53 pm

My first PT I had a 149. 2-3 months of light studying, and I never go below 162. Sit this cycle out, study up for the June LSAT, probably retake in October, and make some money over the next year and a half.

SuchGr8Heights
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:22 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:55 pm

I'm so frustrated with this forum. The vast majority of applicants (which I'm assuming neither of the above posters are) get into great schools that are nowhere near the top 14. You can have a great career no matter where you go to law school. Even if you got into Yale, you might be way happier spending your time in law school at Seattle.

AffordablePrep
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:27 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby AffordablePrep » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:58 pm

SuchGr8Heights wrote:I'm so frustrated with this forum. The vast majority of applicants (which I'm assuming neither of the above posters are) get into great schools that are nowhere near the top 14. You can have a great career no matter where you go to law school. Even if you got into Yale, you might be way happier spending your time in law school at Seattle.

key word is can. he can have a great career from SU, but odds aren't there. i can win the mega millions jackpot, but if i told my landlord not to worry about rent and just gave him a lottery ticket where he can make 1000x the rent, i feel he may not take it.

AffordablePrep
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:27 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby AffordablePrep » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:59 pm

PDaddy wrote:
AffordablePrep wrote:
URM with a 3.8. If he gets a 160-165, he can get a full ride to UW.


But why stop at UW when he can go to Columbia or NYU...or Berkeley or Northwestern, which would absolutely LOVE his work experience? Michigan...UVA...Duke...Cornell...they all take male URM's with those stas and give decent scholarships.

I'd go to a lower-T14 with 75% or mid-high T14 - i.e. "non-HYS" - with 50% over UW full ride any day. I do realize that people with a strong regional preference for the pacific northwest might not necessarily agree. The work experience and regional diversity factors will be great softs. He should be looking far beyond UW unless he just wants to go there.

Keep in mind that HYS would also be options (not guarantees), but the money might not be as enticing (25% grant money maybe).

i agree he shouldn't stop there. however, even if he did his prospects would be head and shoulders better. the diff between the full ride to UW, and OP's current situation is better than the diff between a small scholly at columbia and full ride at UW.

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby top30man » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:04 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:
SuchGr8Heights wrote:I'm so frustrated with this forum. The vast majority of applicants (which I'm assuming neither of the above posters are) get into great schools that are nowhere near the top 14. You can have a great career no matter where you go to law school. Even if you got into Yale, you might be way happier spending your time in law school at Seattle.

key word is can. he can have a great career from SU, but odds aren't there. i can win the mega millions jackpot, but if i told my landlord not to worry about rent and just gave him a lottery ticket where he can make 1000x the rent, i feel he may not take it.

People are just trying to help, and while the reality of the legal economy is frustrating, that does not make the people here frustrating. The reality is that a TT like Seattle, a middling school in a small market with a state T30 feeding grads into the same market will not have good placement stats. This is a particularly bad move at sticker. Retake is the right answer. OP, would you take a year off and study hard for 60k or more and a t30 or better acceptance? The answer should be obvious.

AffordablePrep
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:27 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby AffordablePrep » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:09 pm

top30man wrote:
AffordablePrep wrote:
SuchGr8Heights wrote:I'm so frustrated with this forum. The vast majority of applicants (which I'm assuming neither of the above posters are) get into great schools that are nowhere near the top 14. You can have a great career no matter where you go to law school. Even if you got into Yale, you might be way happier spending your time in law school at Seattle.

key word is can. he can have a great career from SU, but odds aren't there. i can win the mega millions jackpot, but if i told my landlord not to worry about rent and just gave him a lottery ticket where he can make 1000x the rent, i feel he may not take it.

People are just trying to help, and while the reality of the legal economy is frustrating, that does not make the people here frustrating. The reality is that a TT like Seattle, a middling school in a small market with a state T30 feeding grads into the same market will not have good placement stats. This is a particularly bad move at sticker. Retake is the right answer. OP, would you take a year off and study hard for 60k or more and a t30 or better acceptance? The answer should be obvious.

i agree. don't understand how your argument is different from mine.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby PDaddy » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:56 pm

SuchGr8Heights wrote:I'm so frustrated with this forum. The vast majority of applicants (which I'm assuming neither of the above posters are) get into great schools that are nowhere near the top 14. You can have a great career no matter where you go to law school. Even if you got into Yale, you might be way happier spending your time in law school at Seattle.


I live in Seattle, and I know SU law about as well as anyone outside of its professors, administration and graduates. I can tell you with complete certainty that SU is well known as one of the stingiest schools around. If you want to check my credentials, there are TLS members who can tell you that I have assisted them in getting into top schools. Ask PinayPrincess how much I DON'T KNOW about this process.

I agree that you can get a great legal education at just about any American law school and have stated exactly that in many threads and posts. If anything, I am the anti-ranking guy as far as legal education. But the realities of the job market are a separate issue, and this is where your response is off-point. The lower you go in rank (except for Tulane, Suffolk, Howard, Miami, Florida, and a few others), the lower your job prospects for biglaw and clerkships will be.

Over the years, I have guided applicants from beginning to end and helped them secure seats at schools ranging from HYS all the way to TTT. I have assisted a Morehouse graduate with a sub-150 LSAT score in getting into GULC and GWU WITH $$$ and a Spelman grad (black-female) with 3.8/158 in getting hefty scholarships to UVA and PennLaw. OP should wait and retake if he wants to have his best options. There's no need for him to attend SU (a very good law school educationally, btw) when he can raise his score enough to get into much better schools job-wise.

Realizing that many law students do not seek those options I am aware that attending an elite school is not necessary in order to have a successful law career, but URM's with GPA's above 3.5 (esp. black males and females) need to be careful about keeping their options open and minimizing debt.

I have given OP very sage advice.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

galiyagaliya
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby galiyagaliya » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:02 pm

Thanks, guys! when I got my LSAT score I was very upset. I closed retail business month ago, and registered for BluePrint prep course only for $799 (they just opened location in Seattle). I would love to go to Law school, my first degree is in Law (from my home country), and I have worked as human rights activist, journalist which cause problems and brought me to US 5 years ago with $150 in my pocket. I don't think I would feel comfortable to pay $160 K after graduation... I have few SU law graduated friends, and they got jobs after passing BAR but they didn't pay so much for their degree. I will wait another year and study hard until October test and apply to 10+ schools! :) Thanks again!

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby top30man » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:13 pm

I know it can be very frustrating with a bad score the first time. The test is very learnable and you can definitely succeed.
Last edited by top30man on Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: go to Seattle U or wait

Postby PDaddy » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:13 pm

galiyagaliya wrote:Thanks, guys! when I got my LSAT score I was very upset. I closed retail business month ago, and registered for BluePrint prep course only for $799 (they just opened location in Seattle). I would love to go to Law school, my first degree is in Law (from my home country), and I have worked as human rights activist, journalist which cause problems and brought me to US 5 years ago with $150 in my pocket. I don't think I would feel comfortable to pay $160 K after graduation... I have few SU law graduated friends, and they got jobs after passing BAR but they didn't pay so much for their degree. I will wait another year and study hard until October test and apply to 10+ schools! :) Thanks again!


...a very smart move if you can stand to wait. There is plenty of information available on this site to help you study. Look for posts by PithyPike. He gives excellent advice, but you won't need to manually construct your own booklets full of logic games. You can buy them in bundles at Cambridge. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41657

Take a PowerScore, Testmasters or Manhattan prep course. If you self-study, their materials are the best. Also...buy all four of the "Next-10" LSAT's, or buy tests 1-66 in "bundles". Try these links (they are all you need):

http://www.cambridgelsat.com/
http://www.cambridgelsat.com/product/lsat/by_bundle/83
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--


http://www.manhattanlsat.com/
http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/content_index.cfm
http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/content_publications.cfm

http://www.amazon.com/Official-SuperPre ... 79305063/2

http://www.amazon.com/Kaplan-LSAT-Advan ... 1607146916

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/p/best-lsa ... books.html

Start slow, but start NOW. As you study, identify the types of questions that continue to give you trouble and drill yourself on them. Also be sure to look for wrong answers on every question you do, and identify in writing exactly "why" they are wrong. You will begin to notice patterns of wrong answer types within each question type, and that will assist you in gaining speed.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest