Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
PBJones
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Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby PBJones » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:02 pm

"Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race. Thus, there are Hispanics of various racial backgrounds. Some Hispanics identify as being of wholly European descent (George Romney); others are black immigrants or descendants of slaves.

But most Hispanics are -- this is the only technical term available -- Mestizos. According to wikipedia, this term entails a person of "mixed European and Native heritage or descent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

There are four races recognized by the US Census: White; Black; Asian; and Native American. Traditionally, the US Census has regarded Mesitzos as "Caucasian/White." Consequently, the majority of Hispanics (most of whom are Mestizos, rather than "pure" Europeans) identify as "White."

However, wouldn't it be more correct for Mestizos (not Hispanics who are only European or Africa) to identify both as "White AND Native American?" If they identify with their heritage, it would seem like this is not only the opportunistic route, but the truthful one. For they are of both Native American and European descent.

Any thoughts?
Last edited by PBJones on Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:05 pm

Many schools require some proof of tribal affiliation if you check the NA box.

PBJones
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby PBJones » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:08 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Many schools require some proof of tribal affiliation if you check the NA box.


If a student included a diversity statement honestly explaining his choice of race, I bet he'd get the boost. Certainly, he wouldn't get penalized, because it's obviously honest (even if a bit unconventional).

It's a lot more legit than a 1/8 Native American whose grandpa gets her "carded."

vulpixie
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby vulpixie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:10 pm

Wow, I never thought of this. I wonder if a Hispanic applicant has ever done this before.

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hoos89
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby hoos89 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:11 pm

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PBJones
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby PBJones » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:14 pm

hoos89 wrote:
PBJones wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Many schools require some proof of tribal affiliation if you check the NA box.


If a student included a diversity statement honestly explaining his choice of race, I bet he'd get the boost. Certainly, he wouldn't get penalized, because it's obviously honest (even if a bit unconventional).

It's a lot more legit than a 1/8 Native American whose grandpa gets her "carded."


No I doubt that. My understanding of the NA boost is that you need to be legitimately affiliated with a tribe.



That's up to the adcom, which has an incentive to admit more URMs. Also, are you really gonna challenge the claim of someone whose ancestors were indigenous to America, when he claims to be Native American?

I'm not saying they would for sure; I'm saying it's worth a shot, and it's virtually certain one who followed my advice wouldn't get in trouble for it, since -- if he is a Mesitzo -- he is of Native American descent.

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hoos89
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby hoos89 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:19 pm

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sunynp
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby sunynp » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:25 pm

Being a Native American requires more than simple blood ties. How can you not understand that? Why would you expect a boost from a group you don't belong to? Many people have some native American blood, but they don't claim to be part of a tribe

vulpixie
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby vulpixie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:29 pm

hoos89 wrote:Yes but tons of people in other ethnic groups also have SOME native american blood in their background. I'm sorry but in what way is this more legitimate than the person who is 1/8 native american? I think adcomms would see this as disingenuous.


A great many "Mestizos" are something like 90% Native American and 10% or less Spanish. I mean, if you've ever been to South America you can see that many people there clearly have Native American features and skintone, and just obviously are not racially the same as Spaniards or other Europeans. Also, a Mestizo *by definition* identifies partly with Native American hertiage whereas a 1/8th NA kid might not. So, I think it would be totally legit for a Hispanic person who is clearly of Native American descent to identify that way on LSAC.

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hoos89
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby hoos89 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:31 pm

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PBJones
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby PBJones » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:33 pm

hoos89 wrote:
vulpixie wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Yes but tons of people in other ethnic groups also have SOME native american blood in their background. I'm sorry but in what way is this more legitimate than the person who is 1/8 native american? I think adcomms would see this as disingenuous.


A great many "Mestizos" are something like 90% Native American and 10% or less Spanish. I mean, if you've ever been to South America you can see that many people there clearly have Native American features and skintone, and just obviously are not racially the same as Spaniards or other Europeans. Also, a Mestizo *by definition* identifies partly with Native American hertiage whereas a 1/8th NA kid might not. So, I think it would be totally legit for a Hispanic person who is clearly of Native American dissent to identify that way on LSAC.


That's not how the NA boost works though. These people don't sound like they're affiliated with a tribe at all, and you need to be able to show that to gain any appreciable boost.


LSAC's racial categories (used by some schools, such as Yale and Georgetown, which don't ask for race) don't require a tribal affiliation.

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bk1
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:39 pm

Have you always identified yourself as NA in race/ethnicity questionnaires?

If yes, then no problem with marking NA.
If no, then don't be fucking stupid and start doing it now.

PBJones
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby PBJones » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:45 pm

To clarify, I'm not NA. I'm an Arab, non-URM Hispanic (Colombian adoptive parents). But I do believe that Mesitzos who genuinely identify with, and are proud of, their native american descent (of whom there are many) are entitled to indicate as such on their applications.

daniel751
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby daniel751 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:47 pm

I might not be right on this but I thought it was because these boosts were designed to help descendants of Native Americans that were directly affected by settlers in what is now the U.S. So technically even if you are Native American it only helps (for law school admission) if your ancestors were ripped off by "gringos" rather than "conquistadors"

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hoos89
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby hoos89 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:51 pm

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vulpixie
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby vulpixie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:53 pm

hoos89 wrote:
daniel751 wrote:I might not be right on this but I thought it was because these boosts were designed to help descendants of Native Americans that were directly affected by settlers in what is now the U.S. So technically even if you are Native American it only helps (for law school admission) if your ancestors were ripped off by "gringos" rather than "conquistadors"


yeah....that's exactly why the urm boost exists.


Then why do people of Mexican ethnicity (many of whom are racially European) get Affirmative Action? They haven't been oppressed by the US gov't at all.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:55 pm

vulpixie wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
daniel751 wrote:I might not be right on this but I thought it was because these boosts were designed to help descendants of Native Americans that were directly affected by settlers in what is now the U.S. So technically even if you are Native American it only helps (for law school admission) if your ancestors were ripped off by "gringos" rather than "conquistadors"


yeah....that's exactly why the urm boost exists.


Then why do people of Mexican ethnicity (many of whom are racially European) get Affirmative Action? They haven't been oppressed by the US gov't at all.

:lol:

daniel751
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby daniel751 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:56 pm

hoos89 wrote:
daniel751 wrote:I might not be right on this but I thought it was because these boosts were designed to help descendants of Native Americans that were directly affected by settlers in what is now the U.S. So technically even if you are Native American it only helps (for law school admission) if your ancestors were ripped off by "gringos" rather than "conquistadors"


yeah....that's exactly why the urm boost exists.


I agree. Just giving my insight to why some Hispanics might not be able to count themselves as Native Americans which is what the OP was asking.

daniel751
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby daniel751 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:59 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:
vulpixie wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
daniel751 wrote:I might not be right on this but I thought it was because these boosts were designed to help descendants of Native Americans that were directly affected by settlers in what is now the U.S. So technically even if you are Native American it only helps (for law school admission) if your ancestors were ripped off by "gringos" rather than "conquistadors"


yeah....that's exactly why the urm boost exists.


Then why do people of Mexican ethnicity (many of whom are racially European) get Affirmative Action? They haven't been oppressed by the US gov't at all.

:lol:


One thing is being Mexican another is counting yourself as Native American. Mexican in itself is URM. But if you happen to be from let's say Peru, which has one of the largest indigenous populations in Latin America then you would not be able to count yourself as N.A. Hope that makes sense

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laxbrah420
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:01 pm

You talk funny.
What if you are an indigenous dude from Peru?

daniel751
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby daniel751 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:05 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:You talk funny.
What if you are an indigenous dude from Peru?


Then you're pretty blown that you have to have a good gpa/lsat to get into a decent school because you can't count yourself as N.A.

PBJones
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby PBJones » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:08 pm

vulpixie wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
daniel751 wrote:I might not be right on this but I thought it was because these boosts were designed to help descendants of Native Americans that were directly affected by settlers in what is now the U.S. So technically even if you are Native American it only helps (for law school admission) if your ancestors were ripped off by "gringos" rather than "conquistadors"


yeah....that's exactly why the urm boost exists.


Then why do people of Mexican ethnicity (many of whom are racially European) get Affirmative Action? They haven't been oppressed by the US gov't at all.


I agree with this. A lot of Mexicans are subject to discrimination, but not because of their ethnicity; it's because of their race (Mestizos). Does anyone believe Mitt Romney (eligible for affirmative action as the son of a purely European mexican) is more entitled to affirmative action than a Mestizo Dominican who came to America with nothing but the clothes on his back?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/12/opinion/r ... index.html

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20121109
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby 20121109 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Affirmative actions debates are not permitted in the URM forum and are grounds for a ban. Please refrain from continuing this discussion. If you insist, please find your way to the lounge.

lawguy310
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby lawguy310 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:44 pm

I'm Mexican American and I am also part Native American (Apache), but I don't have tribal affiliation. My great aunt just recently (5-10 year ago) traced our lineage and found out what type of Native American my family was (Apache).


Can anyone tell me if I should put this on my application next year? It really hasn't effected me at all because I typically identify with Mexican American, but if it would give me an advantage without having to have tribal affiliaition, should I use it?


And if so, how much of a boost would being MA actually be to my application? and NA?

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luuma
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Re: Why don't many Hispanics claim "Native American" status

Postby luuma » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:20 am

It's true. We are a mix of Native American (Especially Mexicans and South Americans). Caribbean and Central America though has more African descent, but definitely Native American as well. And then some remnants of White descent. It's why we range from looking like.. Zoe Saldana to Cameron Diaz. *Shrug* It's up to the person. I went ahead and claimed Native American, White, and Black with Hispanic as an ethnicity.This is because I have descendancy (is this an English word?) from all of those and it is evident in my upbringing, my family's super mixed line, my traditions, culture and way of life until this day.

I think the reason many do not claim it is because they assume it is only for those who maintain ties to reservations or tribal affiliation, and for some schools that is what it is for. Which is why those schools ask for tribal affiliation information. However, when I applied on the LSAC page it defined Native American as something like... being a descent of indigenous peoples of the Americas. Americas includes south, central, and north. Thus, unless specifically stated otherwise... righteous entitlement for many.
Last edited by luuma on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.




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