Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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SublimeStyle
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Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby SublimeStyle » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:20 pm

This is for the 2012 cycle, not the current one.

So I have a 2.7 gpa from a non HYP Ivy. Took the December 3 LSAT and got a 172, currently debating whether I should retake in June. I have great softs, 2 years work experience at a non-profit that evaluates low income programs, first generation college grad, dad lost job while in college so i had to work full time, etc. etc. If I early decision, which one of Michigan, NYU, or Virginia would I have the best chance of getting into? Or is that aiming too high?


Thoughts?

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cutecarmel
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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby cutecarmel » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:03 pm

....you are not shooting to high. You do not need to retake (172...wow!). I think you should ED (if that is the non-binding one) to all of those schools. I honestly think you will get in, no problem. If you had to work full time in college, and that resulted in a low GPA, you should definately mention that. Are you still in school? Do you have a couple of semesters to bring your grades up?

SublimeStyle wrote:This is for the 2012 cycle, not the current one.

So I have a 2.7 gpa from a non HYP Ivy. Took the December 3 LSAT and got a 172, currently debating whether I should retake in June. I have great softs, 2 years work experience at a non-profit that evaluates low income programs, first generation college grad, dad lost job while in college so i had to work full time, etc. etc. If I early decision, which one of Michigan, NYU, or Virginia would I have the best chance of getting into? Or is that aiming too high?


Thoughts?

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:06 pm

cutecarmel wrote:....you are not shooting to high. You do not need to retake (172...wow!). I think you should ED (if that is the non-binding one) to all of those schools. I honestly think you will get in, no problem. If you had to work full time in college, and that resulted in a low GPA, you should definately mention that. Are you still in school? Do you have a couple of semesters to bring your grades up?

SublimeStyle wrote:This is for the 2012 cycle, not the current one.

So I have a 2.7 gpa from a non HYP Ivy. Took the December 3 LSAT and got a 172, currently debating whether I should retake in June. I have great softs, 2 years work experience at a non-profit that evaluates low income programs, first generation college grad, dad lost job while in college so i had to work full time, etc. etc. If I early decision, which one of Michigan, NYU, or Virginia would I have the best chance of getting into? Or is that aiming too high?


Haha this person cracks me up. Pick either UVA (though they usually have a hard 3.0 floor) or Penn/Michigan (I would pick on of these 2) and ED. you have no shot at CCN with that low GPA

Apply early. Dont retake. You LSAT is high enough, its the GPA thats holding you back

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:10 pm

FWIW, I am a 2.8/176 non-URM splitter and I've gotten into GULC and NU, WL at UVa, and out at Michigan. Since you're URM your cycle will be undoubtedly better than mine, so I think you're pretty much T14 secure.

If you have a favorite T10 school (ie, Michigan/UVa/Penn/Boalt), then ED there to be sure of getting in. Otherwise, I'd say take your chances and blanket the T14.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby bdubs » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:14 pm

You're kind of a wildcard with those numbers. An MA URM on this board had similar numbers (170+ LSAT, sub-3.0 GPA) and he didn't have much success in the mid-upper T-14. I think it will really depend on your PS and DS and other soft factors as to how well your cycle would turn out. If you want to ED somewhere out of MVN, I would say UVA gives you the best shot.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:21 pm

bdubs wrote:You're kind of a wildcard with those numbers. An MA URM on this board had similar numbers (170+ LSAT, sub-3.0 GPA) and he didn't have much success in the mid-upper T-14. I think it will really depend on your PS and DS and other soft factors as to how well your cycle would turn out. If you want to ED somewhere out of MVN, I would say UVA gives you the best shot.


I'd do Northwestern ED because of their ridiculous fullride ED that's pretty easy to get. They are giving it to 3.6/172 white people. Maybe they'll give it this guy.

You have a good shot at NU. I know one Mexican dood in my section who had virtually the same numbers.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby richalvarez » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:36 pm

Hope you guys don't mind me jumping in and asking my own questions... I'm also Mexican, but with lesser numbers (159/2.96). I have 2 Dui's and my gpa from my degree granting institution was a 3.4, however, 2 years at a junior college back in 2002 are bringing my gpa down severely. Due to family reasons, I'm limited to San Diego and LA schools. I know if I studied for Oct 12 LSAT I could get a 168-170, I was practicing in the 160-162 range when I scored my 159. I was wondering if a much improved LSAT and URM status would be able to crack me into USC or UCLA, or if my record and gpa would be a deal breaker. Basically, I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to retake, or go to Cal Western with $$$$ and expand my accounting firm to offer tax law services.

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Rawlberto
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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby Rawlberto » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:08 am

^^^
You need to retake.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby richalvarez » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:42 pm

Rawlberto wrote:^^^
You need to retake.


Thanks, but can I get a little reasoning. Do you believe USC or UCLA would be possible with my GPA and record, assuming I improve my LSAT score. What score do you believe I would need given my circumstances? I'm really trying to debate if it makes sense to devote the time to retake.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby tennisking88 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:54 pm

Rawlberto wrote:^^^
You need to retake.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby tennisking88 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:00 pm

SublimeStyle wrote:This is for the 2012 cycle, not the current one.

So I have a 2.7 gpa from a non HYP Ivy. Took the December 3 LSAT and got a 172, currently debating whether I should retake in June. I have great softs, 2 years work experience at a non-profit that evaluates low income programs, first generation college grad, dad lost job while in college so i had to work full time, etc. etc. If I early decision, which one of Michigan, NYU, or Virginia would I have the best chance of getting into? Or is that aiming too high?


Thoughts?


The GPA is what's holding you back, but with a 172, it's irrelevant. A 2.7 might as well be a 3.5 to the T14. I think you will get into Penn, Mich, UVA, NYU ED without a problem (if you apply as early as possible next year). Perhaps even Columbia. I'm pessimistic about Northwestern ED because I believe the NW ED is used to trap ppl at or above both medians from going elsewhere. Being a splitter, I don't think you should sacrifice one ED for another. Then again, you COULD go ED to NW and if you get deferred, do it for UVA since UVA doesn't have an ED deadline. But you'd be sacrificing waiting a while before sending the ED app. Are you set on EDing? You could probs get a TON of money from a school like WashU or even Michigan/GULC for that 172. ED severely limits/eliminates your scholarship bargaining power. So as long as you're EDing, and want to get into the best school possible regardless of debt, I say go for the gold and do it for Columbia or Chicago (where you'd be slightly above Chicago's 2011 LSAT median).

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby SublimeStyle » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:54 pm

tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote:This is for the 2012 cycle, not the current one.

So I have a 2.7 gpa from a non HYP Ivy. Took the December 3 LSAT and got a 172, currently debating whether I should retake in June. I have great softs, 2 years work experience at a non-profit that evaluates low income programs, first generation college grad, dad lost job while in college so i had to work full time, etc. etc. If I early decision, which one of Michigan, NYU, or Virginia would I have the best chance of getting into? Or is that aiming too high?


Thoughts?


The GPA is what's holding you back, but with a 172, it's irrelevant. A 2.7 might as well be a 3.5 to the T14. I think you will get into Penn, Mich, UVA, NYU ED without a problem (if you apply as early as possible next year). Perhaps even Columbia. I'm pessimistic about Northwestern ED because I believe the NW ED is used to trap ppl at or above both medians from going elsewhere. Being a splitter, I don't think you should sacrifice one ED for another. Then again, you COULD go ED to NW and if you get deferred, do it for UVA since UVA doesn't have an ED deadline. But you'd be sacrificing waiting a while before sending the ED app. Are you set on EDing? You could probs get a TON of money from a school like WashU or even Michigan/GULC for that 172. ED severely limits/eliminates your scholarship bargaining power. So as long as you're EDing, and want to get into the best school possible regardless of debt, I say go for the gold and do it for Columbia or Chicago (where you'd be slightly above Chicago's 2011 LSAT median).


Thanks guys for all the helpful replies but I am definitely retaking. I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT and feel that I could easily break 176 with a proper studying plan. NYU is my dream school but I'm not sure if I should ED there or take a wild shot at CC. And my GPA is slightly better than I thought, 2.8 instead of 2.7 but I'm not sure that it matters at all at this point.

I plan on applying in September, I already have most of my stuff ready to go and am waiting for my recommendations. I do plan on writing a short addendum about having to work through undergrad, but I'm not going to make it into a sob story or an excuse.

Finally, I will have 2 years work experience at a non-profit company that focuses on low income program evaluation, not sure how much that will help but I'm sure it can't hurt.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:24 pm

bdubs wrote:You're kind of a wildcard with those numbers. An MA URM on this board had similar numbers (170+ LSAT, sub-3.0 GPA) and he didn't have much success in the mid-upper T-14. I think it will really depend on your PS and DS and other soft factors as to how well your cycle would turn out. If you want to ED somewhere out of MVN, I would say UVA gives you the best shot.


bdubs might be referring to me. FWIW, my stats: 167/173, similar GPA, White/Asian/PR/MX. Of note is also that I am fairly white-washed, that I think my DS was average (I'm just honestly not that diverse outside my blood), and my softs are mediocre (I worked for a year as admin assistant after college and my summer jobs during college were all admin stuff).

I ED'ed to NYU (rejected), then switched my GULC app from RD to ED (waitlisted). I was waitlisted at GULC, Penn, and NU. Rejected at every other T14 (eventually got off NU's waitlist). NYU is your best shot in the T6. They take the lowest GPA's and have waitlisted/accepted sub3 URM's in previous cycles (waitlist I believe was in 09-10 and acceptance was in 08-09). However, NYU is pretty unlikely due to the fact that they haven't accepted a sub3 in 3 years or so (LSN data). ED'ing to NYU is a waste in my mind. I had been planning to switch my UVA app from RD to ED after I got my NYU decision but UVA rendered me a rejection fairly quickly.

I know of another MA applicant from last cycle with similar numbers (175+/similar GPA) who got $10-15k/year at NU and rejected at UVA ED. I think in general the splitter friendly T14's (other than NU) are tightening up their 3.0 floor because UVA used to be a haven for sub3 GPA's. It's looking more and more like NU is the last safe place for sub3's. But this cycle and last cycle saw double digit drops in applications meaning that they might have to go back to actually accepting sub3's like they did more often prior to 09-10.

1. A retake really isn't worth it. It's your GPA that's killing you and a 180 isn't going to stop that.

2. As for the 3 schools you mentioned, probably your ED chances are something like UVA > UMich > NYU. That being said, NYU is generally seen as superior to UVA/UMich and if you want to gamble on the possibility of NYU taking sub3 GPAs due to the decrease in apps then NYU ED might be worth it. However, my recommendation would be NU ED as others have mentioned (since they give a full ride if accepted). UVA/UMich are basically peer schools to NU having roughly equivalent employment prospects. Considering NU is more apt to give you money than the aforementioned schools and the fact that even if you don't get the full ride from them that you still might get a 1/3+ scholarship makes me think that NU ED is likely a better idea than UVA or UMich ED.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby bdubs » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:39 pm

bk1 wrote:bdubs might be referring to me. FWIW, my stats: 167/173, similar GPA, White/Asian/PR/MX.

I know of another MA applicant from last cycle with similar numbers (175+/similar GPA) who got $10-15k/year at NU and rejected at UVA ED.


I wasn't thinking of you bk, but you're a good person to give advice on this topic. I think i'm referring to the other guy you mentioned.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby tennisking88 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:52 pm

SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby SublimeStyle » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:12 pm

tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


Well engineering undergrad means I was routinely hitting -0 on LG without any practice. Since this tends to be the hardest section, I pretty much was at a huge advantage at the outset; my diagnostic was a 168. Another positive is that for some reason I find RC to be the easiest section of the 3, not sure why but I rarely miss more than 1 or 2 in this section. I really want to read the LR bible and practice more on the LR sections because those are what killed me in December. Kind of sucks because my worst section makes up half of the LSAT.

Is it really not worth retaking a 172 even though I know I can break the 176 range? For some reason a 2.8/178 looks alot better to me than a 2.8/172, but then again I have no experience as this will be my first cycle.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:40 pm

bdubs wrote:
bk1 wrote:bdubs might be referring to me. FWIW, my stats: 167/173, similar GPA, White/Asian/PR/MX.

I know of another MA applicant from last cycle with similar numbers (175+/similar GPA) who got $10-15k/year at NU and rejected at UVA ED.


I wasn't thinking of you bk, but you're a good person to give advice on this topic. I think i'm referring to the other guy you mentioned.


And he did better than I did.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:42 pm

tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


<3 humblebrag

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bk1
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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:43 pm

SublimeStyle wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


Well engineering undergrad means I was routinely hitting -0 on LG without any practice. Since this tends to be the hardest section, I pretty much was at a huge advantage at the outset; my diagnostic was a 168. Another positive is that for some reason I find RC to be the easiest section of the 3, not sure why but I rarely miss more than 1 or 2 in this section. I really want to read the LR bible and practice more on the LR sections because those are what killed me in December. Kind of sucks because my worst section makes up half of the LSAT.

Is it really not worth retaking a 172 even though I know I can break the 176 range? For some reason a 2.8/178 looks alot better to me than a 2.8/172, but then again I have no experience as this will be my first cycle.


A better LSAT isn't going to really help you all that much, but there might be a very slim chance that it could. I was in a similar boat to you (got a 170 diagnostic and studied for a weekend before I got my first LSAT: 166), but since my first one was a 166 retaking to a 173 definitely helped me. It likely won't help you since you're already at 172, but you don't really have anything to lose if you don't mind studying for it and taking it again. So if you don't mind burning the time, go for it.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby tennisking88 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:43 pm

SublimeStyle wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


Well engineering undergrad means I was routinely hitting -0 on LG without any practice. Since this tends to be the hardest section, I pretty much was at a huge advantage at the outset; my diagnostic was a 168. Another positive is that for some reason I find RC to be the easiest section of the 3, not sure why but I rarely miss more than 1 or 2 in this section. I really want to read the LR bible and practice more on the LR sections because those are what killed me in December. Kind of sucks because my worst section makes up half of the LSAT.

Is it really not worth retaking a 172 even though I know I can break the 176 range? For some reason a 2.8/178 looks alot better to me than a 2.8/172, but then again I have no experience as this will be my first cycle.


I mean ya can't really LOSE if you take it in June but I think you're good to go as is. A URM with a 172 and an engineer from a top school is pretty goddamn good already. Enough for NYU at least, IMO.

Edit: if it took you 2 weeks to get you to 172, you theoretically won't have to burn all that much time for a better score. Also, if you get 175+ you may have a shot at the top 3.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:48 pm

tennisking88 wrote:I mean ya can't really LOSE if you take it in June but I think you're good to go as is. A URM with a 172 and an engineer from a top school is pretty goddamn good already. Enough for NYU at least, IMO.

Edit: if it took you 2 weeks to get you to 172, you theoretically won't have to burn all that much time for a better score. Also, if you get 175+ you may have a shot at the top 3.


It's not really "good enough." Having a sub3 GPA is a black mark that even URM status struggles to mitigate. NYU is definitely a long shot and the rest of the T6 are almost guaranteed out (not to mention many of the lower T14's as well).

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby SublimeStyle » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:01 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


<3 humblebrag


Actually I'm trying to explain why I want to retake. I know full well that I didn't "earn" my score and am genuinely thankful that I am good at taking tests. This isn't something I've had to work for and I fully sympathize with people who are smarter than me yet don't do as well under pressure. Luckily for them, their work ethic allowed them to get a much higher GPA than me and consequently they have a much stronger overall application than I do. Have I eaten enough humble pie yet?

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:09 pm

SublimeStyle wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


<3 humblebrag


This isn't something I've had to work for


<3

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:45 am

SublimeStyle wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
SublimeStyle wrote: I only studied for 2 weeks for the December LSAT


!


Well engineering undergrad means I was routinely hitting -0 on LG without any practice. Since this tends to be the hardest section, I pretty much was at a huge advantage at the outset; my diagnostic was a 168. Another positive is that for some reason I find RC to be the easiest section of the 3, not sure why but I rarely miss more than 1 or 2 in this section. I really want to read the LR bible and practice more on the LR sections because those are what killed me in December. Kind of sucks because my worst section makes up half of the LSAT.

Is it really not worth retaking a 172 even though I know I can break the 176 range? For some reason a 2.8/178 looks alot better to me than a 2.8/172, but then again I have no experience as this will be my first cycle.

Dude, in this situation you should ABSOLUTELY retake. When people say they bombed the LSAT, it's usually due to either LG or RC. If you can kill LG and RC like that without much work all you'd have to do is learn a bit about logic for LR and you are the type of person who gets 180s. At the very least you could write a GPA addendum and say the 180 is more indicative of your abilities and work ethic at this age, especially considering you worked full-time in college. You've got 8 months before you apply man, you might as well give it everything you've got. Don't settle or play the what if game.

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Re: Mex Splitter 172/2.7, shot at T14?

Postby 005618502 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:20 am

richalvarez wrote:
Rawlberto wrote:^^^
You need to retake.


Thanks, but can I get a little reasoning. Do you believe USC or UCLA would be possible with my GPA and record, assuming I improve my LSAT score. What score do you believe I would need given my circumstances? I'm really trying to debate if it makes sense to devote the time to retake.


No but you could shoot for USD. That below 3.0 GPA is going to kill you. If you break 170 you might have a chance at UCLA




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