Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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Errzii
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Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Errzii » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:28 am

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. I swear I've tried searching for this and didn't find any satisfactory answers, hopefully someone can help out.

So anyway, title says it all, does it? If yes, to what extent? Also what qualifies exactly as "socioeconomic disadvantage" is there a cutoff, e.g., <30k etc.? Does being bankrupt make a diff?


If it makes any difference I'm looking at the California schools particularly (UCLA, USC, Berkeley, etc.)

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:53 am

No.

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zanda
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby zanda » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:16 am

You'd think so, but no.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:20 am

zanda wrote:You'd think so, but no.

Nobody wants to have this debate for the thousandth time.

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Cupidity
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Cupidity » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:29 am

/ thread

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Errzii
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Errzii » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:35 am

Socioeconomic disadvantage ≠ URM. Got it, thanks.

So.. it would just be considered a meh soft factor at best then?

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SA1928
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby SA1928 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:42 am

You can use low socioeconomic status as a topic in a diversity statement, if you're looking to put it in your application somehow.

dkt4
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby dkt4 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:12 pm

SA1928 wrote:You can use low socioeconomic status as a topic in a diversity statement, if you're looking to put it in your application somehow.


don't do this. if you really want to make a point of it, put it in your PS. a DS is not the right place for that.

berkeley has a part of the application regarding family circumstance/finances to fill out...but as far as i know they're the only school that does that.

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TommyK
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby TommyK » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:38 pm

dkt4 wrote:
SA1928 wrote:You can use low socioeconomic status as a topic in a diversity statement, if you're looking to put it in your application somehow.


don't do this. if you really want to make a point of it, put it in your PS. a DS is not the right place for that.

berkeley has a part of the application regarding family circumstance/finances to fill out...but as far as i know they're the only school that does that.


Why not? DS is not strictly for racial/ethnic/religious/ability diversity. It's about how you can bring diversity to the law school class and I see no reason why a DS wouldn't be a fine place to write about this.

dkt4
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby dkt4 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:52 pm

socioeconomic status is nowhere on that list...

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TommyK
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby TommyK » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:56 pm

dkt4 wrote:socioeconomic status is nowhere on that list...


what list?

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cinephile
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby cinephile » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:57 pm

Why not? I thought the DS was quite broad in what they considered diversity.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:59 pm

TommyK wrote:
dkt4 wrote:socioeconomic status is nowhere on that list...


what list?

If you don't know about this list, we can't tell you about it . . .

jk, there is no list. dkt4 is talking rubbish.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:01 pm

lol

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kapachino
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby kapachino » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:04 pm

cinephile wrote:Why not? I thought the DS was quite broad in what they considered diversity.



Coming from a disadvantaged background isn't exactly rare. It would do nothing to increase a school's diversity.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:08 pm

kapachino wrote:
cinephile wrote:Why not? I thought the DS was quite broad in what they considered diversity.



Coming from a disadvantaged background isn't exactly rare. It would do nothing to increase a school's diversity.

I politely disagree.

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Dany
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Dany » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:09 pm

kapachino wrote:
cinephile wrote:Why not? I thought the DS was quite broad in what they considered diversity.

Coming from a disadvantaged background isn't exactly rare. It would do nothing to increase a school's diversity.

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cinephile
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby cinephile » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:12 pm

kapachino wrote:
cinephile wrote:Why not? I thought the DS was quite broad in what they considered diversity.



Coming from a disadvantaged background isn't exactly rare. It would do nothing to increase a school's diversity.


Maybe, maybe not. But I've seen plenty of DS examples here up for critique that are primarily focused on socioeconomic status/growing up in Appalachia/living in subsidized housing/instability and moving constantly as a kid/etc.

dkt4
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby dkt4 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:02 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
TommyK wrote:
dkt4 wrote:socioeconomic status is nowhere on that list...


what list?

If you don't know about this list, we can't tell you about it . . .

jk, there is no list. dkt4 is talking rubbish.


u sir are no fun. also, a RC fail on my part.

anyway, there's still no need for a DS. you could do it, but you're just sending more words without providing much. there's almost certainly a way to tie this into a PS, so what need to you have for a DS?

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Errzii
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby Errzii » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:27 pm

I don't know about Berkeley, but UCLA does have a section on the primary app specifically for this (13h)

"Please describe the socio-economic disadvantages you have overcome (may be attached electronically):"

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:37 pm

Errzii wrote:I don't know about Berkeley, but UCLA does have a section on the primary app specifically for this (13h)

"Please describe the socio-economic disadvantages you have overcome (may be attached electronically):"

Berkeley has a separate sheet with a bunch of questions about socio-economic status. This sheet, as well as the optional diversity statement, help the school to understand where applicants are coming from, so to speak. Also, to my understanding, when making admissions decisions, Berkeley does not see which race/ethnicity box(es) each applicant has checked.

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SA1928
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby SA1928 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:09 pm

I think it may depend on the school on whether your socioeconomic status qualifies as diversity. I didn't want to focus my personal statement on my socioeconomic status, but I do feel it is important to include it somewhere, so I plan on submitting it to most schools through some type of optional essay/diversity statement.

UPenn has this listed as an optional essay (which I I took to mean Diversity statement, at least at UPenn)

- Describe how your background or experiences will contribute to or enhance the diversity of the Penn Law community (e.g. based on your culture, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, ideology, age, socioeconomic status, academic background, employment experience, etc.).

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NYC Law
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:23 pm

Many schools do list it under topics of discussion for a statement of diversity. I did that and I think it may have helped me in some instances. If they didn't request a diversity statement (with SES listed) then I didn't send one.

To further reiterate, it might mildly help if you're otherwise a border candidate, but it's nowhere near a URM boost.

shoeshine
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby shoeshine » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:29 pm

Errzii wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. I swear I've tried searching for this and didn't find any satisfactory answers, hopefully someone can help out.

So anyway, title says it all, does it? If yes, to what extent? Also what qualifies exactly as "socioeconomic disadvantage" is there a cutoff, e.g., <30k etc.? Does being bankrupt make a diff?


If it makes any difference I'm looking at the California schools particularly (UCLA, USC, Berkeley, etc.)


It matters at Berkeley and UCLA. They aren't technically allowed to consider race under prop 209 so they concentrate on admitting URMs who are economically disadvantaged. They have long sections on their applications about your financial history and many of their scholarships are based off that information.

I suspect that it helps more to be both disadvantaged and a minority but I know they factor it in for sure.

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NYC Law
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Re: Does socioeconomic disadvantage count as URM?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:43 pm

shoeshine wrote:
Errzii wrote:Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. I swear I've tried searching for this and didn't find any satisfactory answers, hopefully someone can help out.

So anyway, title says it all, does it? If yes, to what extent? Also what qualifies exactly as "socioeconomic disadvantage" is there a cutoff, e.g., <30k etc.? Does being bankrupt make a diff?


If it makes any difference I'm looking at the California schools particularly (UCLA, USC, Berkeley, etc.)


It matters at Berkeley and UCLA. They aren't technically allowed to consider race under prop 209 so they concentrate on admitting URMs who are economically disadvantaged. They have long sections on their applications about your financial history and many of their scholarships are based off that information.

I suspect that it helps more to be both disadvantaged and a minority but I know they factor it in for sure.


Didn't know that, kinda wish I applied. :|




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