HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
Marley
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HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:43 pm

I'm bored at work and happy to help with jobs/school/social life/random questions.

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jmjones
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby jmjones » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:52 pm

Where are you working?

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:53 pm

jmjones wrote:Where are you working?


I split my summer between two government agencies.

SuperCool23
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby SuperCool23 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:53 pm

how is law school? what did you do your first summer

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jmjones
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby jmjones » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:57 pm

the inevitable questions....

1. What type of URM?
2. Approximate numbers

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:59 pm

SuperCool23 wrote:how is law school? what did you do your first summer


Law school was great. It was a long year, but all (generally) interesting and sometimes fun. The hardest part is the mindset--making sure you're not comparing yourself to others, getting crazy around exams, feeling behind if you overhear someone mention how many hours they've spent in the library that weekend, etc. If you're conscientious about not letting the mind games get the best of you, you can find a nice work/life balance and enjoy yourself.

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:00 pm

jmjones wrote:the inevitable questions....

1. What type of URM?
2. Approximate numbers


Hispanic, 3.6/172

SuperCool23
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby SuperCool23 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:09 pm

What did you do to prep fo the lsat

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:11 pm

SuperCool23 wrote:What did you do to prep fo the lsat


I used the Power Score bibles and pretty much every test out there at the time. Did 5-6 hours/day for a month, going through the bibles and doing timed sections, plus one full timed test/week. Then did 2-3 full timed tests/week for three weeks leading up to the test, plus a timed section everyday. Read each bible (except RC) twice.

HowdyYall
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby HowdyYall » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:29 pm

do you think you could've gotten a 1L SA position if you had wanted one? do you think being a URM helps in getting a SA position?

Thanks in advance!

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Sh@keNb@ke
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Sh@keNb@ke » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:31 pm

Do you know fellow URM's who are in the bottom 50% that are still able to find BIGLAW?

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Doritos
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Doritos » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:50 pm

Sh@keNb@ke wrote:Do you know fellow URM's who are in the bottom 50% that are still able to find BIGLAW?


There are people in the bottom 50% who get biglaw at many places regardless of their URMness. Do you mean to ask if it is likely for a URM in the bottom 50% to get biglaw? At my T14 I know URMs and non-URMs w/ lackluster grades who got biglaw for their 1L summer (which is even more impressive). I also know people who had fantastic grades who are working for free.

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Sh@keNb@ke
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Sh@keNb@ke » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:09 pm

Doritos wrote:
Sh@keNb@ke wrote:Do you know fellow URM's who are in the bottom 50% that are still able to find BIGLAW?


There are people in the bottom 50% who get biglaw at many places regardless of their URMness. Do you mean to ask if it is likely for a URM in the bottom 50% to get biglaw? At my T14 I know URMs and non-URMs w/ lackluster grades who got biglaw for their 1L summer (which is even more impressive). I also know people who had fantastic grades who are working for free.


Yes I meant to ask if it is likely that URM's in the bottom 50% get biglaw. Are those with fantastic grades working for free because they choose to or because they haven't been able to secure any biglaw summer jobs due to some other factors such as bad interviewing skills or horrible resumes?

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:18 pm

HowdyYall wrote:do you think you could've gotten a 1L SA position if you had wanted one? do you think being a URM helps in getting a SA position?

Thanks in advance!


I'd say I probably could have, based on the number of friends I have who got one. The thing they had in common were 1) ties to secondary markets (huge) and 2) they were on the ball and sent in their stuff on Dec. 1st. There are also a ton of diversity 1L programs that will give you a scholarship + a 1L SA position (and sometimes one or the other). I didn't want a 1L SA, but I did get a couple scholarships that way. Definitely take the time to apply for those. In terms of whether or not being a URM helps (other than for the diversity positions of course), it's hard to say. There were a good number of non-URMs at my school who got 1L SAs w/o any problem either.

The one thing I'll say is that 1L summer is probably your last time in a LONG time to do WHATEVER you want to do. Live in a place you've always wanted to, work for a dream organization. The firm jobs will be there next summer. If there's absolutely anything else you want to do instead, do that. Esp at HYS where they will give you a solid PI stipend and a 2L SA is a pretty good bet.

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:19 pm

Sh@keNb@ke wrote:
Doritos wrote:
Sh@keNb@ke wrote:Do you know fellow URM's who are in the bottom 50% that are still able to find BIGLAW?


There are people in the bottom 50% who get biglaw at many places regardless of their URMness. Do you mean to ask if it is likely for a URM in the bottom 50% to get biglaw? At my T14 I know URMs and non-URMs w/ lackluster grades who got biglaw for their 1L summer (which is even more impressive). I also know people who had fantastic grades who are working for free.


Yes I meant to ask if it is likely that URM's in the bottom 50% get biglaw. Are those with fantastic grades working for free because they choose to or because they haven't been able to secure any biglaw summer jobs due to some other factors such as bad interviewing skills or horrible resumes?


I haven't gone through OCI yet, but I'm sure that bad interviewing skills and horrible resumes will hurt you as a URM as much as it would anyone else.

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Doritos
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Doritos » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:30 pm

Sh@keNb@ke wrote:
Doritos wrote:
Sh@keNb@ke wrote:Do you know fellow URM's who are in the bottom 50% that are still able to find BIGLAW?


There are people in the bottom 50% who get biglaw at many places regardless of their URMness. Do you mean to ask if it is likely for a URM in the bottom 50% to get biglaw? At my T14 I know URMs and non-URMs w/ lackluster grades who got biglaw for their 1L summer (which is even more impressive). I also know people who had fantastic grades who are working for free.


Yes I meant to ask if it is likely that URM's in the bottom 50% get biglaw. Are those with fantastic grades working for free because they choose to or because they haven't been able to secure any biglaw summer jobs due to some other factors such as bad interviewing skills or horrible resumes?


Let's keep in mind that though URMs are rare, there are only so many of those 1L SA diversity positions to go around. I am a URM at a T14 and it is not guaranteed that you will get one of those positions. I know one firm in a secondary market quite off the beaten path had one of those positions and received well over 30 applicants for it. Now a 1/30 chance is A LOT better than just blindly applying to firms but it's still not guaranteed that you will get the position.

Some w/ fantastic grades work for free because they want to, others applied late or things just didn't happen for them. Nothing is guaranteed but being a URM, w/ decent to good grades, and being on the ball w/ your apps = you have a much much better chance of a 1L SA position. Though keep in mind even if you get one chances are you won't be at Wachtell or SullCrom, it's more likely going to be in Cincinnati, OH or Charlotte, NC.

dkt4
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby dkt4 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:46 pm

Marley wrote:I'd say I probably could have, based on the number of friends I have who got one. The thing they had in common were 1) ties to secondary markets (huge) and 2) they were on the ball and sent in their stuff on Dec. 1st. There are also a ton of diversity 1L programs that will give you a scholarship + a 1L SA position (and sometimes one or the other). I didn't want a 1L SA, but I did get a couple scholarships that way. Definitely take the time to apply for those. In terms of whether or not being a URM helps (other than for the diversity positions of course), it's hard to say.


what were the ties to secondary markets? and is there a listing of some of those 1L diversity schollys?

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:55 pm

dkt4 wrote:
Marley wrote:I'd say I probably could have, based on the number of friends I have who got one. The thing they had in common were 1) ties to secondary markets (huge) and 2) they were on the ball and sent in their stuff on Dec. 1st. There are also a ton of diversity 1L programs that will give you a scholarship + a 1L SA position (and sometimes one or the other). I didn't want a 1L SA, but I did get a couple scholarships that way. Definitely take the time to apply for those. In terms of whether or not being a URM helps (other than for the diversity positions of course), it's hard to say.


what were the ties to secondary markets? and is there a listing of some of those 1L diversity schollys?


Either hometowns or went to undergrad in the market. For most of them, it doesn't have to be the exact city; any city in Colorado will do for Denver, being from Washington generally is good enough for Seattle, etc. With regard to scholarships, your OCS will probably provide you the info once Dec 1st rolls around, but a Google search for "1L diversity scholarship" will bring up a lot of them.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Wade LeBosh » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:52 am

How common/difficult is it to go into consulting (McKinsey, Bain, etc)?

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:20 am

Wade LeBosh wrote:How common/difficult is it to go into consulting (McKinsey, Bain, etc)?


For what? 1L summer, 2L summer, post grad? I know zero people at law school who are doing it to end up in consulting--don't McKinsey and Bain hire straight out of undergrad? Seems like a weird thing to go to law school for. Sorry I can't be of more help.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Wade LeBosh » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:51 pm

Marley wrote:
Wade LeBosh wrote:How common/difficult is it to go into consulting (McKinsey, Bain, etc)?


For what? 1L summer, 2L summer, post grad? I know zero people at law school who are doing it to end up in consulting--don't McKinsey and Bain hire straight out of undergrad? Seems like a weird thing to go to law school for. Sorry I can't be of more help.


Post-grad full-time offers was what I was referring to. Not the reason I'm going to law school, just curious about the opportunities at HLS. I know a S grad working at Bain (says his pay is comparable to a first year biglaw associate) and I was wondering how common this was at H. You answered my question then, thank you.

More Qs, do you know any 1Ls that applied to the JD/MBA program? Were they successful?

What percentage (approx) of your classmates have non-traditional UG majors (fine arts, hard sciences)?

Around when should a student be fully decided on their specific legal career path (academia, transactional, litigation)?

How do you know where you rank in the class with that grading system? Do law firms know the grade distribution?

Do you know anyone with the dreaded LP? Are they really given to the bottom 10% of the class or are they given on the discretion of the professor for exceptionally poor work?

Is there much social interaction with the other graduate schools?

Thanks!

Marley
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Marley » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:57 pm

Wade LeBosh wrote:
Marley wrote:
Wade LeBosh wrote:How common/difficult is it to go into consulting (McKinsey, Bain, etc)?


For what? 1L summer, 2L summer, post grad? I know zero people at law school who are doing it to end up in consulting--don't McKinsey and Bain hire straight out of undergrad? Seems like a weird thing to go to law school for. Sorry I can't be of more help.


Post-grad full-time offers was what I was referring to. Not the reason I'm going to law school, just curious about the opportunities at HLS. I know a S grad working at Bain (says his pay is comparable to a first year biglaw associate) and I was wondering how common this was at H. You answered my question then, thank you.

More Qs, do you know any 1Ls that applied to the JD/MBA program? Were they successful?

What percentage (approx) of your classmates have non-traditional UG majors (fine arts, hard sciences)?

Around when should a student be fully decided on their specific legal career path (academia, transactional, litigation)?

How do you know where you rank in the class with that grading system? Do law firms know the grade distribution?

Do you know anyone with the dreaded LP? Are they really given to the bottom 10% of the class or are they given on the discretion of the professor for exceptionally poor work?

Is there much social interaction with the other graduate schools?

Thanks!


So, I guess this is somewhat outing me but I'm not at H. I'm at one of YS. Maybe HLS has more people going into consulting though--you'd have to ask one of them. Know some 1Ls in the process of applying to a JD/MBA, and I hear the GMAT is a piece of cake. They don't seem particularly worried.

I'd say a solid 1/3 have non-trad majors or graduate degrees in unrelated fields. You don't have to be "fully decided" on anything during law school--especially with regard to academia. Get good grades no matter what, and you can go into academia after practicing for awhile. Lots of my profs did that. With regard to transactional/litigation, you should probably at least pretend to decide by OCI, so you can give solid answers during interviews, but you can always change your mind. Obviously, you should know whether or not you want to do the firm thing by OCI time, so the end of your 1L year.

No one I know got an LP. In fact I heard of someone (not my year) who accidentally didn't save her exam, and they let her retake the test instead of giving her an LP. Conversely, I know of someone who got an LP and still got offers at OCI. I don't know what you have to do to get it, but I imagine its pretty hard. I know someone who left an entire short answer on an exam blank and still passed.

Social interaction w/ other grad schools...not a ton. I think it's actually more for URMs bc most schools have gradwide affinity groups that do events.

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Moxie
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby Moxie » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:28 pm

Wade LeBosh wrote:How common/difficult is it to go into consulting (McKinsey, Bain, etc)?


Just to jump in with the HLS perspective, consulting is definitely not the typical post-LS career path, but I know of a few students who secured post graduation offers with MBB, Oliver Wyman, etc. Getting hired for these positions is a very different process from the Biglaw recruiting timeline, and this lack of convenience is definitely a reason why so few students go into it.

Furthermore, the few students I know going into consulting/IB post-graduation (almost) all had experience in business fields and business UG degrees. I'm sure there are ways to get into consulting post-JD without having a business background, but demonstrating that interest will be difficult since you're in LAW school, not BUSINESS school.

dkt4
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby dkt4 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:18 pm

Marley wrote:Either hometowns or went to undergrad in the market. For most of them, it doesn't have to be the exact city; any city in Colorado will do for Denver, being from Washington generally is good enough for Seattle, etc. With regard to scholarships, your OCS will probably provide you the info once Dec 1st rolls around, but a Google search for "1L diversity scholarship" will bring up a lot of them.


thanks :)

sfxx
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Re: HYS URM rising 2L, taking q's

Postby sfxx » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:19 pm

Do urms self segregate amond themselves at all ie socially, study groups etc?




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