Multi-racial

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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yngblkgifted
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby yngblkgifted » Mon May 30, 2011 10:07 pm

I'm just as much Native American as the OP is Sudanese, but I don't know shit about the Seminoles and have never indentified myself as such. Therefore, I wouldn't check of NA on my application. I knew a guy IRL who looked white, however he had a Native American grandfather and he actually participated in tribal traditions and had a tribal card. I believe that his checking off NA on his application was perfectly justified.

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Helicio
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby Helicio » Mon May 30, 2011 10:08 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:
Helicio wrote:
blackman1 wrote:This OP is slime. You have never once been interested in sudanese culture or language. Now all of a sudden, since you are applying to law school, you want to be part sudanese. Here you are looking for validation for your stupidity. Go ahead and put black.

I hope you go to law school, graduate cum laude and find out you cant become a member of ANY state bar because you LIED.

It would be so nice to see an arab post on this board about being proud about being an ARAB not trying to find if they can pass for black.


Sudan is in Africa. If the OP can get the huge boost that comes from identifying as African-American, why pass that up? Maybe his or her skin is black. I dunno.

For the record, I'm Lebanese through my parents and my skin looks like a dark sort of white, so I identify as "white" on my applications. But I don't see anything wrong with the OP identifying as AA if he/she is really AA. Heck, the OP IS from Africa originally if he or she is part Sudanese. Why are people so mad that s/he will take advantage of this? I know a white dude from South Africa who put AA on his application; if that guy can do it, why can't the OP? There's nothing wrong with putting AA down if you are only half-black. Barack Obama himself is half-black, and he identifies as black.

Identify as whatever will be most advantagous to you, OP. You will be robbing yourself if you do anything but that. And if you put AA down, you won't be lying.



Barack Obama has indentified himself as a black man virtually his whole life. Putting down a race that you have never indetified yourself as is deceitful. Of course, you can game the system, but will you be able to look yourself in the mirror?

I just don't see why people are denying the OP the chance to identify as AA when being part Sudanese clearly gives him the right to, at least in the geographic sense.

As far as Obama goes, I've read both of his biographies and I dunno if what you say is true. A large part of his life, he has written that he struggled between trying to find out who he really was. His white family raised him yet many people called him black, so he struggled for years to understand what he believed he was. Now he identifies himself as black; during his childhood, the reality was a lot more complicated than that.

For the record, I'm a latte-sipping liberal. Obama 2012, yes :).

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Helicio
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby Helicio » Mon May 30, 2011 10:10 pm

Anyway, I'm curious to know what the other "half" of the OP is. Is the other half "white"? Is it Persian? Arab? Ethnically Sudanese? "Black"? What is it?

tothePAIN
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby tothePAIN » Mon May 30, 2011 10:15 pm

The purpose of the URM boost, as I understand it, is to grow representation of under represented minorities. If the OP has never identified as such, and then does so, its deceitful.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby yngblkgifted » Mon May 30, 2011 10:32 pm

I just don't see why people are denying the OP the chance to identify as AA when being part Sudanese clearly gives him the right to, at least in the geographic sense.
As far as Obama goes, I've read both of his biographies and I dunno if what you say is true. A large part of his life, he has written that he struggled between trying to find out who he really was. His white family raised him yet many people called him black, so he struggled for years to understand what he believed he was. Now he identifies himself as black; during his childhood, the reality was a lot more complicated than that.
For the record, I'm a latte-sipping liberal. Obama 2012, yes :).


Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of Obama's struggle had to do with the fact that he wanted to better indentify with his black roots. I understand that his search was a rather complex one, but he still seemed to embrace his black side rather than shy away from it.

Having a Sudanese grandfather is not suffient information to say that OP should indentify himself as AA. A large parge part of indentifying as an AA in this society has do with one indetifying with being black and having roots in Sub-sahrarn Africa. My Sudanese roommate from college mentioned that many of the North Sudanese indentify themselves as Arab. In fact, they hate the "inferior" blacks in the South and would be offended to be placed in the same racial category as them. Yes, geographically, OP technically could say that he is AA, but so could a white person from South Africa. And while everyone always chuckles at a White South African who says "I'm African American"...I don't think many people would agree that they should put that they are AA on their law school application when they clearly fit into the Caucasion/ White Category much better.

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Helicio
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby Helicio » Mon May 30, 2011 10:38 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:
I just don't see why people are denying the OP the chance to identify as AA when being part Sudanese clearly gives him the right to, at least in the geographic sense.
As far as Obama goes, I've read both of his biographies and I dunno if what you say is true. A large part of his life, he has written that he struggled between trying to find out who he really was. His white family raised him yet many people called him black, so he struggled for years to understand what he believed he was. Now he identifies himself as black; during his childhood, the reality was a lot more complicated than that.
For the record, I'm a latte-sipping liberal. Obama 2012, yes :).


Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of Obama's struggle had to do with the fact that he wanted to better indentify with his black roots. I understand that his search was a rather complex one, but he still seemed to embrace his black side rather than shy away from it.

Having a Sudanese grandfather is not suffient information to say that OP should indentify himself as AA. A large parge part of indentifying as an AA in this society has do with one indetifying with being black and having roots in Sub-sahrarn Africa. My Sudanese roommate from college mentioned that many of the North Sudanese indentify themselves as Arab. In fact, they hate the "inferior" blacks in the South and would be offended to be placed in the same racial category as them. Yes, geographically, OP technically could say that he is AA, but so could a white person from South Africa. And while everyone always chuckles at a White South African who says "I'm African American"...I don't think many people would agree that they should put that they are AA on their law school application when they clearly fit into the Caucasion/ White Category much better.


If the OP's skin is not black and if he or she does not identify with the typical African-American experience (whatever that means), then I guess putting AA might be stretching it to the point that it is immoral. I guess my opinion is a bit weird since I don't really agree with AA as it is now, largely due to my economic circumstances (that being said, I don't agree with legacy and such either). Anyway, to the OP: do whatever you want, but remember that there will be a record of it in the future, so if you lie that could F you up.

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20121109
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby 20121109 » Mon May 30, 2011 11:40 pm

Um...The white guy that identified as African American because he was from South Africa is actually deceitful. Most African American designations look like: Black/African American...which usually means Black/'the politically correct way of saying black'. I mean really, when someone refers to an African American in ordinary language, you can bet your ass that no one is thinking of that white guy that grew up in South Africa. Nationality does not translate to race. If I was born in China, and raised in China, but have black skin, it doesn't make me Chinese. It makes me a black girl that grew up in China. Same way dude is a white guy that grew up in Africa. OP actually has African heritage, and even though some may find his choice to identify as an AA reprehensible, he can still do it without being deceitful. There is no requisite "black/Hispanic/Native American experience" for URM status. One can go through life without experiencing any discrimination or other adverse effects of being a racial minority and still be considered URM. (Such a notion will not debated in the URM forum.) So people are free to get pissy if they want to, and understandably so, but he isn't doing anything wrong.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby yngblkgifted » Mon May 30, 2011 11:58 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Um...The white guy that identified as African American because he was from South Africa is actually deceitful. Most African American designations look like: Black/African American...which usually means Black/'the politically correct way of saying black'. I mean really, when someone says refers to an African American in ordinary language, you can bet your ass that no one is thinking of that white guy that grew up in South Africa. Nationality does not translate to race. If I was born in China, and raised in China, but have black skin, it doesn't make me Chinese. It makes me a black girl that grew up in China. Same way dude is a white guy that grew up in Africa. OP actually has African heritage, and even though some may find his choice to identify as an AA reprehensible, he can still do it without being deceitful. There is no requisite "black/Hispanic/Native American experience" for URM status. One can go through life without experiencing any discrimination or other adverse effects of being a racial minority and still be considered URM. (Such a notion will not debated in the URM forum.) So people are free to get pissy if they want to, and understandably so, but he isn't doing anything wrong.


No there is no experience that is necessary to identify as such. However, I would argue that one should identify themselves as such before they check it off on the box in order to rightly claim AA status. If op has always considered himself white but puts AA on his application, I will and always will call bull shit. Sure, he might get away with it but that doesn't mean it isn't deceitful.

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20121109
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby 20121109 » Tue May 31, 2011 12:14 am

yngblkgifted wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Um...The white guy that identified as African American because he was from South Africa is actually deceitful. Most African American designations look like: Black/African American...which usually means Black/'the politically correct way of saying black'. I mean really, when someone says refers to an African American in ordinary language, you can bet your ass that no one is thinking of that white guy that grew up in South Africa. Nationality does not translate to race. If I was born in China, and raised in China, but have black skin, it doesn't make me Chinese. It makes me a black girl that grew up in China. Same way dude is a white guy that grew up in Africa. OP actually has African heritage, and even though some may find his choice to identify as an AA reprehensible, he can still do it without being deceitful. There is no requisite "black/Hispanic/Native American experience" for URM status. One can go through life without experiencing any discrimination or other adverse effects of being a racial minority and still be considered URM. (Such a notion will not debated in the URM forum.) So people are free to get pissy if they want to, and understandably so, but he isn't doing anything wrong.


No there is no experience that is necessary to identify as such. However, I would argue that one should identify themselves as such before they check it off on the box in order to rightly claim AA status. If op has always considered himself white but puts AA on his application, I will and always will call bull shit. Sure, he might get away with it but that doesn't mean it isn't deceitful.


Deceitful means fraudulent or misleading or whatever the hell else meaning you want to give it. OP is certainly opportunistic, but fraudulent or misleading he is not, for he actually has African heritage. I actually think that putting AA is just purely trying to game the system, and in that way, I agree that it is bullshit. But no, I'm afraid it is not deceitful.

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Quan292
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby Quan292 » Tue May 31, 2011 12:16 am

We all have an idea of why there is a URM status and who are the people this status is supposed to help out. OP obviously knows he doesnt fit who it is meant for. It should be easy as that.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby yngblkgifted » Tue May 31, 2011 12:21 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Um...The white guy that identified as African American because he was from South Africa is actually deceitful. Most African American designations look like: Black/African American...which usually means Black/'the politically correct way of saying black'. I mean really, when someone says refers to an African American in ordinary language, you can bet your ass that no one is thinking of that white guy that grew up in South Africa. Nationality does not translate to race. If I was born in China, and raised in China, but have black skin, it doesn't make me Chinese. It makes me a black girl that grew up in China. Same way dude is a white guy that grew up in Africa. OP actually has African heritage, and even though some may find his choice to identify as an AA reprehensible, he can still do it without being deceitful. There is no requisite "black/Hispanic/Native American experience" for URM status. One can go through life without experiencing any discrimination or other adverse effects of being a racial minority and still be considered URM. (Such a notion will not debated in the URM forum.) So people are free to get pissy if they want to, and understandably so, but he isn't doing anything wrong.


No there is no experience that is necessary to identify as such. However, I would argue that one should identify themselves as such before they check it off on the box in order to rightly claim AA status. If op has always considered himself white but puts AA on his application, I will and always will call bull shit. Sure, he might get away with it but that doesn't mean it isn't deceitful.


Deceitful means fraudulent or misleading or whatever the hell else meaning you want to give it. OP is certainly opportunistic, but fraudulent or misleading he is not, for he actually has African heritage. I actually think that putting AA is just purely trying to game the system, and in that way, I agree that it is bullshit. But no, I'm afraid it is not deceitful.


Well, technically a white person from south Africa who becomes an American citizen is an African American. LS Adcomms assume that when someone puts AA, it means that they would identify (at the very least acknowledge that part of them in some way) themselves as such in real life. If OP doesn't do that, it is misleading. And since misleading = deceitful, it is deceitful.

JDucreux
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby JDucreux » Tue May 31, 2011 12:24 am

Not all Middle Eastern people are "Arab," especially if they don't have roots going back to the Arabian Peninsula. You are overlooking Turks, many Lebanese, Jordanians, Iranians (many of which are Persians), many Syrians, and many Palestinians with your blanket label of "Arab."


Jordanians and Palestinians are almost always considered Arabs. There are non-Arab minorities in both places (Assyrians, Armenians, Circassians, etc.), but both are majority Arab.

It is important to keep in mind that the label "Arab" is primary cultural and linguistic. "Arab" is a panethnicity, not a single ethnic group.
Last edited by JDucreux on Tue May 31, 2011 12:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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20121109
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby 20121109 » Tue May 31, 2011 12:28 am

Quan292 wrote:We all have an idea of why there is a URM status and who are the people this status is supposed to help out. OP obviously knows he doesnt fit who it is meant for. It should be easy as that.


What exactly is this idea behind URM status that we all have? Because I always thought it went like this.....

Candidates of African American, Native American, Mexican American and Puerto Rican descent ---> URM status.

OP is presumably American and is of African descent. I know I don't need to tell anyone what that means.

Look guys, I don't agree with what the OP is doing. Didn't my first post indicate that I thought he was trying to do something shady? I just think some of us have this misconceived notion that identifying as an AA throughout life is a prerequisite for true URM status, which is so not true.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby yngblkgifted » Tue May 31, 2011 12:31 am

Whatever OP has been checking his whole life on race/ethnicity boxes, he should check now. period. end of story.

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20121109
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby 20121109 » Tue May 31, 2011 12:35 am

yngblkgifted wrote:Well, technically a white person from south Africa who becomes an American citizen is an African American. LS Adcomms assume that when someone puts AA, it means that they would identify (at the very least acknowledge that part of them in some way) themselves as such in real life. If OP doesn't do that, it is misleading. And since misleading = deceitful, it is deceitful.


You can be technical all you want, but I'm sure that URM status involves race only. I've said it before and I will say it again, he is not an African American in the way everyone else (but apparently you) would consider the meaning of the designation. It literally strains the mind to the think that a white guy would be considered a term that people only use as a politically correct way of saying 'black', just because he lived in South Africa.

And no, adcomms don't assume anything other than the information you give them. If you identify with the experiences of a racial minority then you put it in your PS and/or DS. Not once did I mention anything about race or any discrimination in my application, and I don't think the adcomms assumed that I endured a struggle or any other experience just because I checked the Black/African American box.

ETA: I also just want to point out the weird logic of thinking it's ok for a white guy with no African genes to check the Black/African American box (no, living in Africa does not count as sufficient African heritage), but its not ok for someone who is ACTUALLY of African descent to check the box. Does not compute. URM status is about race and nothing else.

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IAFG
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby IAFG » Tue May 31, 2011 12:46 am

Golden Boy wrote:
zanda wrote:
Maryam19 wrote:My paternal grandfather is Sudanese...

take the free points.


+1

One of my least favorite things about TLS conventional wisdom is when people with strong feelings about box-checking try to paint ambiguity as clearly one thing or another. Now that is deceitful.

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Re: Multi-racial

Postby lightbulb1986 » Tue May 31, 2011 1:06 am

.

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Quan292
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Re: Multi-racial

Postby Quan292 » Tue May 31, 2011 2:04 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Quan292 wrote:We all have an idea of why there is a URM status and who are the people this status is supposed to help out. OP obviously knows he doesnt fit who it is meant for. It should be easy as that.


What exactly is this idea behind URM status that we all have? Because I always thought it went like this.....


As in URM status is a small way of combating the years of systemic oppression that specific groups have faced in this country. I feel like the people who face some form of oppression are obvious and you know when you fit or do not fit within that group.




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