How will you pay it forward???

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
whattheheck
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby whattheheck » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:32 pm

[quote="Shooter"]Lol @ "pre-law advisors are just overpaid seat warmers that offer no real help to minority students..."

Pre-law advisors don't offer help to ANY students... it has nothing to do with race. At all.[/quote

I didn't mean it in that way. I am pretty sure that the pre-law advisor on my campus was pretty crappy to everyone. I stated minority simply because this is the URM forum. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:56 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:I have a concept for a non-profit that I want to put in action (or pass on as an initiative to an established non-profit) that is a definite pay it forward direct at under-served high school students.

My parents sit on the board of directors for a nonprofit founded by two practicing doctors. Those doctors don't sleep much, but I want to follow in their footsteps, as they have utilized their professional connections (and personal investment $$$s) to make major changes worldwide.

In the meantime... pro bono hours for me as well.

I'm first-generation everything, pretty much. My parents weren't professionals, or college educated, or what most people consider middle-class. One wasn't born here and is ESL. I kept telling myself, I don't have any money or family to fall back on, there's no way I could do something crazy like start up a nonprofit on my own.

Then I got into law school. And I got into clinics, and through those clinics I started doing work where I saw pretty egregious things. And I started to go, "Man, I had no idea this was going on. I mean, I knew about a lot of problems with the legal process, but this just seems crazy, and not all that expensive to even fix." Then I went, "Wait. If I had even a little funding, I could do something about this."

Then I realized I had a viable nonprofit idea, and now I'm itching to find funding for it. I may do the law-firm-and-pro-bono hours thing for a while, for the experience and training and to save up a financial cushion, but it's not like these legal problems are going anywhere on their own. I'll get to it as soon as I'm ready.

You may not even know what you're able to do until you're already doing it.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby BlakcMajikc » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:44 am

Moxie wrote:
BlakcMajikc wrote:
Shooter wrote:Lol @ "pre-law advisors are just overpaid seat warmers that offer no real help to minority students..."

Pre-law advisors don't offer help to ANY students... it has nothing to do with race. At all.


Maybe at your school... mine were awesome actually. Proofed all of my essays and resume, tracked and distributed law school scholarship LORs, answered my questions and emails at 8pm from their crackberries... Maybe it's a you-get-what-you-pay-for type deal depending on the $$$ of the undergrad institution?


No way. My school is one of the most costly in the country, and our pre-law program is pretty terrible/their information is outdated. Oh well, TLS has always been helpful.


ouch.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby BlakcMajikc » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:45 am

vanwinkle wrote:
BlakcMajikc wrote:I have a concept for a non-profit that I want to put in action (or pass on as an initiative to an established non-profit) that is a definite pay it forward direct at under-served high school students.

My parents sit on the board of directors for a nonprofit founded by two practicing doctors. Those doctors don't sleep much, but I want to follow in their footsteps, as they have utilized their professional connections (and personal investment $$$s) to make major changes worldwide.

In the meantime... pro bono hours for me as well.

I'm first-generation everything, pretty much. My parents weren't professionals, or college educated, or what most people consider middle-class. One wasn't born here and is ESL. I kept telling myself, I don't have any money or family to fall back on, there's no way I could do something crazy like start up a nonprofit on my own.

Then I got into law school. And I got into clinics, and through those clinics I started doing work where I saw pretty egregious things. And I started to go, "Man, I had no idea this was going on. I mean, I knew about a lot of problems with the legal process, but this just seems crazy, and not all that expensive to even fix." Then I went, "Wait. If I had even a little funding, I could do something about this."

Then I realized I had a viable nonprofit idea, and now I'm itching to find funding for it. I may do the law-firm-and-pro-bono hours thing for a while, for the experience and training and to save up a financial cushion, but it's not like these legal problems are going anywhere on their own. I'll get to it as soon as I'm ready.

You may not even know what you're able to do until you're already doing it.


Sounds awesome. Can't wait to see you change the world! :)

dey206
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby dey206 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:53 pm

Personally, my values are as follows: family, career, friends, and then "community."

I have not heard of this concept per say but I understand where you are coming from. But you have to realize that not everyone is meant to help out in the same way. I know the poster was just joking about pro bono hours in a way, but for some people's schedules and values as well as personality, that truely is the best way they can help others. Being someone who has spent countless hours volunteering with students from disadvantaged backgrounds and working with a variety of non profits and organizations-there is a difference between the person who is doing what they love to do and the person who is "paying it forward"

No disrespect, but you have to see that there are many ways to tackle the challenges minorities face in many aspects including the legal community. Everyone does their part, either big or small. But in the big picture the guy who does pro bono helping criminals and the guy starting his own non profit are doing the same thing but just in different ways. I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, but I know not everyone minority can do that nor should they have to.

I volunteer not because I owe it to the community, but because I owe it to myself. It's something I love to do. And I dont knock others who don't choose to volunteer, or have the time.

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alexonfyre
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby alexonfyre » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:22 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
BlakcMajikc wrote:I have a concept for a non-profit that I want to put in action (or pass on as an initiative to an established non-profit) that is a definite pay it forward direct at under-served high school students.

My parents sit on the board of directors for a nonprofit founded by two practicing doctors. Those doctors don't sleep much, but I want to follow in their footsteps, as they have utilized their professional connections (and personal investment $$$s) to make major changes worldwide.

In the meantime... pro bono hours for me as well.

I'm first-generation everything, pretty much. My parents weren't professionals, or college educated, or what most people consider middle-class. One wasn't born here and is ESL. I kept telling myself, I don't have any money or family to fall back on, there's no way I could do something crazy like start up a nonprofit on my own.

Then I got into law school. And I got into clinics, and through those clinics I started doing work where I saw pretty egregious things. And I started to go, "Man, I had no idea this was going on. I mean, I knew about a lot of problems with the legal process, but this just seems crazy, and not all that expensive to even fix." Then I went, "Wait. If I had even a little funding, I could do something about this."

Then I realized I had a viable nonprofit idea, and now I'm itching to find funding for it. I may do the law-firm-and-pro-bono hours thing for a while, for the experience and training and to save up a financial cushion, but it's not like these legal problems are going anywhere on their own. I'll get to it as soon as I'm ready.

You may not even know what you're able to do until you're already doing it.


If you want to start it in the Southern Louisiana area, I know some people that might be interested, if it is relevant down here.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:37 am

alexonfyre wrote:If you want to start it in the Southern Louisiana area, I know some people that might be interested, if it is relevant down here.

I worked in Louisiana for one week. It convinced me I never want to engage in practicing law there again for as long as I live. I want to leave the world better than I found it, but there's a limit to how much I can sacrifice in the process.

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drdolittle
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby drdolittle » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:01 am

vanwinkle wrote:I'm first-generation everything, pretty much. My parents weren't professionals, or college educated, or what most people consider middle-class. One wasn't born here and is ESL. I kept telling myself, I don't have any money or family to fall back on, there's no way I could do something crazy like start up a nonprofit on my own.

Then I got into law school. And I got into clinics, and through those clinics I started doing work where I saw pretty egregious things. And I started to go, "Man, I had no idea this was going on. I mean, I knew about a lot of problems with the legal process, but this just seems crazy, and not all that expensive to even fix." Then I went, "Wait. If I had even a little funding, I could do something about this."

Then I realized I had a viable nonprofit idea, and now I'm itching to find funding for it. I may do the law-firm-and-pro-bono hours thing for a while, for the experience and training and to save up a financial cushion, but it's not like these legal problems are going anywhere on their own. I'll get to it as soon as I'm ready.

You may not even know what you're able to do until you're already doing it.

I don't doubt your intent. But these plans will likely dematerialize once you enter biglaw as an H grad. I hope they won't. But they typically have and will, as others I know well experienced, thanks to current realities in the legal profession...But if you can be the extremely rare exception, more power to you, I hope you succeed!

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alexonfyre
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby alexonfyre » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:54 am

vanwinkle wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:If you want to start it in the Southern Louisiana area, I know some people that might be interested, if it is relevant down here.

I worked in Louisiana for one week. It convinced me I never want to engage in practicing law there again for as long as I live. I want to leave the world better than I found it, but there's a limit to how much I can sacrifice in the process.


Did you work in Louisiana or New Orleans. If the former then I agree with you, if the latter...then I believe we are at an impasse.

whattheheck
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby whattheheck » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:45 pm

dey206 wrote:Personally, my values are as follows: family, career, friends, and then "community."

I have not heard of this concept per say but I understand where you are coming from. But you have to realize that not everyone is meant to help out in the same way. I know the poster was just joking about pro bono hours in a way, but for some people's schedules and values as well as personality, that truely is the best way they can help others. Being someone who has spent countless hours volunteering with students from disadvantaged backgrounds and working with a variety of non profits and organizations-there is a difference between the person who is doing what they love to do and the person who is "paying it forward"

No disrespect, but you have to see that there are many ways to tackle the challenges minorities face in many aspects including the legal community. Everyone does their part, either big or small. But in the big picture the guy who does pro bono helping criminals and the guy starting his own non profit are doing the same thing but just in different ways. I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, but I know not everyone minority can do that nor should they have to.

I volunteer not because I owe it to the community, but because I owe it to myself. It's something I love to do. And I dont knock others who don't choose to volunteer, or have the time.



Uhhhh... I am a little confused as to what you are getting at. I never said that anyone HAD to help. And especially not in the same way. Some people help out on a larger scale and some help out on a smaller scale. Some people don't help at all. And I, ALWAYS have my priorities as God, My family, my career, friends then community.... in that order. I personally will not stage a protest or start a rally, or open a clinic or even do pro bono hours for criminals. That's just not my thing. I don't knock anyone who chooses to do that. It's their way of paying it forward.

I simply stated earlier that there will be many URMs in BIG LAW seeking some sort of guidance and they shouldn't be so cold in guiding someone else in ANY way (the responses were pretty sarcastic for this post). You know, like actually being at least 10% of the BS they put in their PS about being a leader and giving back... that sort of thing.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:25 am

alexonfyre wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:If you want to start it in the Southern Louisiana area, I know some people that might be interested, if it is relevant down here.

I worked in Louisiana for one week. It convinced me I never want to engage in practicing law there again for as long as I live. I want to leave the world better than I found it, but there's a limit to how much I can sacrifice in the process.

Did you work in Louisiana or New Orleans. If the former then I agree with you, if the latter...then I believe we are at an impasse.

Uh, New Orleans is in Louisiana...

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BlaqBella
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby BlaqBella » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:17 am

drdolittle wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:I'm first-generation everything, pretty much. My parents weren't professionals, or college educated, or what most people consider middle-class. One wasn't born here and is ESL. I kept telling myself, I don't have any money or family to fall back on, there's no way I could do something crazy like start up a nonprofit on my own.

Then I got into law school. And I got into clinics, and through those clinics I started doing work where I saw pretty egregious things. And I started to go, "Man, I had no idea this was going on. I mean, I knew about a lot of problems with the legal process, but this just seems crazy, and not all that expensive to even fix." Then I went, "Wait. If I had even a little funding, I could do something about this."

Then I realized I had a viable nonprofit idea, and now I'm itching to find funding for it. I may do the law-firm-and-pro-bono hours thing for a while, for the experience and training and to save up a financial cushion, but it's not like these legal problems are going anywhere on their own. I'll get to it as soon as I'm ready.

You may not even know what you're able to do until you're already doing it.

I don't doubt your intent. But these plans will likely dematerialize once you enter biglaw as an H grad. I hope they won't. But they typically have and will, as others I know well experienced, thanks to current realities in the legal profession...But if you can be the extremely rare exception, more power to you, I hope you succeed!


+1

Odds aren't in his/her favor.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:53 pm

drdolittle wrote:I don't doubt your intent. But these plans will likely dematerialize once you enter biglaw as an H grad. I hope they won't. But they typically have and will, as others I know well experienced, thanks to current realities in the legal profession...But if you can be the extremely rare exception, more power to you, I hope you succeed!

I don't expect a BigLaw job to give me the personal satisfaction that I get from the PI work I'm doing now, and it's that satisfaction that really keeps me going. I honestly intend to go into BigLaw knowing I won't last more than a few years there.

On the other side, if for some strange reason I do end up staying in BigLaw, I've specifically chosen a firm that's known for pro bono commitment, and I'd be happy to donate some part of my salary every year to local charitable organizations.

Plans do change, I know. But one way or another I plan to keep making some kind of difference, no matter where I end up.

dey206
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby dey206 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:17 pm

[quote="whattheheckUhhhh... I am a little confused as to what you are getting at. I never said that anyone HAD to help. And especially not in the same way. Some people help out on a larger scale and some help out on a smaller scale. Some people don't help at all. And I, ALWAYS have my priorities as God, My family, my career, friends then community.... in that order. I personally will not stage a protest or start a rally, or open a clinic or even do pro bono hours for criminals. That's just not my thing. I don't knock anyone who chooses to do that. It's their way of paying it forward.

I simply stated earlier that there will be many URMs in BIG LAW seeking some sort of guidance and they shouldn't be so cold in guiding someone else in ANY way (the responses were pretty sarcastic for this post). You know, like actually being at least 10% of the BS they put in their PS about being a leader and giving back... that sort of thing.[/quote]

Either way, I think your attitude is great and inspiring for some. I wouldn't worry so much about other people and focus on the positive. The minorities in Big Law that are actually cold to other minorities seeking advice have their own issues as to why they feel that wa. Most are really helpful, certainly in my experience. Have you experienced this treatment yourself? Like someone actually blew you off or something?

dey206
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby dey206 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:24 pm

dey206 wrote:[quote="whattheheckUhhhh... I am a little confused as to what you are getting at. I never said that anyone HAD to help. And especially not in the same way. Some people help out on a larger scale and some help out on a smaller scale. Some people don't help at all. And I, ALWAYS have my priorities as God, My family, my career, friends then community.... in that order. I personally will not stage a protest or start a rally, or open a clinic or even do pro bono hours for criminals. That's just not my thing. I don't knock anyone who chooses to do that. It's their way of paying it forward.

I simply stated earlier that there will be many URMs in BIG LAW seeking some sort of guidance and they shouldn't be so cold in guiding someone else in ANY way (the responses were pretty sarcastic for this post). You know, like actually being at least 10% of the BS they put in their PS about being a leader and giving back... that sort of thing.


Either way, I think your attitude is great and inspiring for some. I wouldn't worry so much about other people and focus on the positive. The minorities in Big Law that are actually cold to other minorities seeking advice have their own issues as to why they feel that wa. Most are really helpful, certainly in my experience. Have you experienced this treatment yourself? Like someone actually blew you off or something?[/quote]


Im not asking to be an asshole, I knew of one AA attorney who was pretty rude to some AA but not ones he felt were worthy according to his standards. I worked with him at a mid sized firm. He was nice to me, but I saw him blow off quite a few ppl. But he had major identity issues and wouldnt understand the concept of paying it forward if Jesus came and explained it to him.

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alexonfyre
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby alexonfyre » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:32 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:If you want to start it in the Southern Louisiana area, I know some people that might be interested, if it is relevant down here.

I worked in Louisiana for one week. It convinced me I never want to engage in practicing law there again for as long as I live. I want to leave the world better than I found it, but there's a limit to how much I can sacrifice in the process.

Did you work in Louisiana or New Orleans. If the former then I agree with you, if the latter...then I believe we are at an impasse.

Uh, New Orleans is in Louisiana...


Technically. But New Orleans and Louisiana are two very different things.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:47 pm

I am bi-racial (NA and Hispanic) but I identify as an NA URM. I belong to a very small tribe. I began volunteering with the social services division for the tribe two years ago. Basically the social services division is extremely underfunded. The members are facing pretty serious problems. Health issues like diabetes, acute alcoholism, and heart disease are basically going untreated. Even broader social problems have began to threaten my tribe's existence.

I am only mildly involved now (because of professional commitments) but I want to get more involved on a serious level.

I want to do legal advocacy or lobbying work for the tribe some time after I graduate from law school. It would be my dream to open a community center and sponsor a college scholarship for tribe members (less than 12% of our members ever enroll in college and the graduation rate is even smaller).
Last edited by powerlawyer06 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mce252
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby Mce252 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:57 pm

.
Last edited by Mce252 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlaqBella
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby BlaqBella » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:26 pm

dey206 wrote:
dey206 wrote:Im not asking to be an asshole, I knew of one AA attorney who was pretty rude to some AA but not ones he felt were worthy according to his standards. I worked with him at a mid sized firm. He was nice to me, but I saw him blow off quite a few ppl. But he had major identity issues and wouldnt understand the concept of paying it forward if Jesus came and explained it to him.


This has also been my experience. Of those minorities that actually have the network and potential income to make a difference, most aren't interested in paying anything forward. Reasons can vary from entitlement issues, being too focused on getting ahead or paying off that debt. Moreover, a number do not believe in defining their community on the basis of race or SES. Community is defined more along the lines of future offsprings or immediate family members. I've heard similar stories 5 years ago by HYSCCN etc URM graduates all of whom are still slaving away in BIGLAW. The few that went on to stay in pro bono started with pro bono. Seldom do you find BIGLAW experienced URMs willing to sacrifice half their paycheck to help those in need.

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BlaqBella
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby BlaqBella » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:30 pm

Mce252 wrote:Keep your debt level manageable; raise disciplined and respectful children; start a small business and hire employees; stay off entitlement programs and help others do the same; be a volunteer in your community. For most of the world, merely focusing on these simple things will be the best way you can ever pay it forward.


+1 except the "stay off entitlement programs". Care to elaborate?

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powerlawyer06
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:40 pm

Mce252 wrote:Keep your debt level manageable; raise disciplined and respectful children; start a small business and hire employees; stay off entitlement programs and help others do the same; be a volunteer in your community. For most of the world, merely focusing on these simple things will be the best way you can ever pay it forward.

In the context of this forum this seems a little racist.

Are you implying that minorities have a natural proclivity to raise undisciplined children and be on entitlement programs?
If we were successful lawyers who were not minorities would more be expected of us in order to "pay it forward"?

I feel like you are saying, "Don't worry about making a difference or helping anyone else out. Since you are minorites, all you have to do is not be a drain on society like the rest of the minorities."

Am I way off the mark or does this seem racist to anyone else?

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Mce252
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby Mce252 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:54 pm

.
Last edited by Mce252 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Moxie
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby Moxie » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:59 pm

Mce252 wrote:
Mce252 wrote:Keep your debt level manageable; raise disciplined and respectful children; start a small business and hire employees; stay off entitlement programs and help others do the same; be a volunteer in your community. For most of the world, merely focusing on these simple things will be the best way you can ever pay it forward.



This advice is the same advice I would have given in the "white students forum" if there had been one. Your assumptions are more prejudicial than my original comment.

Are minorities the only individuals who have access to entitlement programs? The subject of this forum is paying it forward. My point was simply that staying off of entitlement programs allows you to pay it forward to someone who may not have that option.


Or to protect those entitlements for our children, since some kind of sacrifice will be needed to ensure they continue.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Mce252 wrote:Are minorities the only individuals who have access to entitlement programs? The subject of this forum is paying it forward. My point was simply that staying off of entitlement programs allows you to pay it forward to someone who may not have that option.


Understood. I am glad you clarified.

Can you see how without clarification your comment may seem prejudicial towards minorities? (especially in the context of this thread)
Last edited by powerlawyer06 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mce252
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Re: How will you pay it forward???

Postby Mce252 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:03 pm

Moxie wrote:
Mce252 wrote:
Mce252 wrote:Keep your debt level manageable; raise disciplined and respectful children; start a small business and hire employees; stay off entitlement programs and help others do the same; be a volunteer in your community. For most of the world, merely focusing on these simple things will be the best way you can ever pay it forward.



This advice is the same advice I would have given in the "white students forum" if there had been one. Your assumptions are more prejudicial than my original comment.

Are minorities the only individuals who have access to entitlement programs? The subject of this forum is paying it forward. My point was simply that staying off of entitlement programs allows you to pay it forward to someone who may not have that option.


Or to protect those entitlements for our children, since some kind of sacrifice will be needed to ensure they continue.



Well, that wasn't exactly my point, but I'm not going to turn this forum into a debate about entitlement programs.




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