Hair?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
btnyegurl
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Re: Hair?

Postby btnyegurl » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:35 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:
btnyegurl wrote:Frankly as an AA my fro is my glory and no one is going to make me get ride of it


Male or female? Mini-fro or





--ImageRemoved--



Lol, definitely not as large as Luda's but I'm getting close

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:55 pm

Bump!

Any further opinions on how Black/African/African-American hair in its natural, braided, or dreaded state is received by corporate America, specifically within law firms?

Would hair like this be well received:

Image

Image


I'll be honest, I didn't see many black female attorneys with natural hair at my previous firm. Most were relaxed or with weaves.

talesofyore
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Re: Hair?

Postby talesofyore » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:43 am

I have decide to keep my hair relaxed due to how differently I'm treated by both black and white people when my hair is relaxed. The first day I showed up to a place I used to work, it was like the first time anyone was really seeing me. There was SUCH a marked difference. Also, I went to the same conference one year with natural hair, and the next year with relaxed hair. Nothing changed except my hair, but people were a lot more friendly in the second year.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:17 am

talesofyore wrote:I have decide to keep my hair relaxed due to how differently I'm treated by both black and white people when my hair is relaxed. The first day I showed up to a place I used to work, it was like the first time anyone was really seeing me. There was SUCH a marked difference. Also, I went to the same conference one year with natural hair, and the next year with relaxed hair. Nothing changed except my hair, but people were a lot more friendly in the second year.


Yes, I've also noted a difference in how colleagues responded to me when I wore my hair straight (blown out and flat ironed) v.s. in its kinky/curly natural state. That said, I don't think I would wear a relaxer because it just ruins my hair. I've been natural for 7 years and counting and vowed to never return to the creamy-crack, :lol: (hope you're not offended!). I'm thinking of either wearing a customized wig, half-wig or weave and changing it up every few months or so. I still haven't quite figured out what style won't be high maintenance that requires visit to the salon every week/two weeks. Even a weave needs to maintained every day.

Here is a customized wig that looks real but isn't. This was my former stylist/salon, too. Maybe I can wear it curl on some days and straight on the other while still protecting my real hair underneath:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2akwPqVEBwI

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danitt
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Re: Hair?

Postby danitt » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:36 am

Never forget.

Image

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:39 am

danitt wrote:Never forget.

Image


:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

I loved that movie BTW. Still can't let go of my naps though. I refuse.

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dingbat
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Re: Hair?

Postby dingbat » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:59 am

nelaw2010 wrote:Truth? It will matter at a corporate law firm. Nobody will tell you that it will, but it will. I'm speaking from experience of having worked at corp law firm and at a Fortune 10 company. Are there exceptions to the rule? Absolutely. But walk into any Big Law firm, and you'll see most guys with short hair or bald (from all the stress).

I think once you're established as an expert in your field, you have more latitude in appearance. But in the beginning, having dreads might, and I say MIGHT, work against you.

This is credited.
Keep your hair neat and short, remove all facial hair
If you're a woman, keep your hair neat and not too big or long

Yes, it sucks, but to quote Bull Durham
Bull Durham wrote:Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you'll be classy. If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press'll think you're colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, however, it means you are a slob

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:13 am

dingbat wrote:Keep your hair neat and short, remove all facial hair

If you're a woman, keep your hair neat and not too big or long


Dreads can be neat. What is your point?

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dingbat
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Re: Hair?

Postby dingbat » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:45 am

BlaqBella wrote:
dingbat wrote:Keep your hair neat and short, remove all facial hair

If you're a woman, keep your hair neat and not too big or long


Dreads can be neat. What is your point?

I don't actually know enough about women's hair style to use the right wording.
Dreads, whether on a man or a woman, is a career limiting decision

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Hair?

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:49 am

BlaqBella wrote:Bump!

Any further opinions on how Black/African/African-American hair in its natural, braided, or dreaded state is received by corporate America, specifically within law firms?

Would hair like this be well received:

pics [see above]

I'll be honest, I didn't see many black female attorneys with natural hair at my previous firm. Most were relaxed or with weaves.


I'm not AA, but I would be more than fine with those hairstyles. I don't know how older people or clients would react, though. The first picture looks very neat, but the bun is pretty big and prominent. In the second picture the woman looks sort of casual. Over the summer, the black women whose hairstyles I remember had either straightened hair or braids (maybe the braids were weaves, though?....they were pretty long). All the black males had short hair and no facial hair. It probably makes more sense to ask black female 2Ls and 3Ls about their sense.

Law firms are super-conservative places....more conservative than corporate America in general, I would guess. ITE (as I am sure you are aware) you don't want to take any chances. If you have awesome grades from a great school, you can probably get away with whatever hair you want (especially since you are URM and there is a dearth of URMs with those credentials). If you are borderline, you should probably figure out a conservative hairstyle that works for you (maybe like the first person with a smaller bun or the second person but shorter?). It is sort of like the fact that women feel pressured to wear skirt suits to OCI (I know it is not the same since it is much easier and less permanent to change your clothes). That annoyed me, but I still wore a skirt suit - and heels!, which for me was a big deal because I literally never wear them and never owned a pair before that. But is was worth it to get a job.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:55 am

dingbat wrote:I don't actually know enough about women's hair style to use the right wording.


...then you shouldn't be commenting.

dingbat wrote:Dreads, whether on a man or a woman, is a career limiting decision


You don't actually know enough about women's hair style but you know enough to deduce the above?

Mmmhmm, sure dude.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:01 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:Bump!

Any further opinions on how Black/African/African-American hair in its natural, braided, or dreaded state is received by corporate America, specifically within law firms?

Would hair like this be well received:

pics [see above]

I'll be honest, I didn't see many black female attorneys with natural hair at my previous firm. Most were relaxed or with weaves.


I'm not AA, but I would be more than fine with those hairstyles. I don't know how older people or clients would react, though. The first picture looks very neat, but the bun is pretty big and prominent. In the second picture the woman looks sort of casual. Over the summer, the black women whose hairstyles I remember had either straightened hair or braids (maybe the braids were weaves, though?....they were pretty long). All the black males had short hair and no facial hair. It probably makes more sense to ask black female 2Ls and 3Ls about their sense.

Law firms are super-conservative places....more conservative than corporate America in general, I would guess. ITE (as I am sure you are aware) you don't want to take any chances. If you have awesome grades from a great school, you can probably get away with whatever hair you want (especially since you are URM and there is a dearth of URMs with those credentials). If you are borderline, you should probably figure out a conservative hairstyle that works for you (maybe like the first person with a smaller bun or the second person but shorter?). It is sort of like the fact that women feel pressured to wear skirt suits to OCI (I know it is not the same since it is much easier and less permanent to change your clothes). That annoyed me, but I still wore a skirt suit - and heels!, which for me was a big deal because I literally never wear them and never owned a pair before that. But is was worth it to get a job.


I wouldn't say all firms are super conservative/share similar culture. I have been asking around speaking to black female associates throughout a few firms in different regions and it appears that California (specifically Palo Alto/SanFran) seems to be more accepting of black women wearing natural hair. Others say it doesn't matter what hairstyle you choose, what matters is your work ethic/production. Still, there were a few who advised I avoid wearing natural hair altogether and go with something less "Afrocentric", whatever that means. :roll:

I'm just not one to change who I am most comfortable being to appease to a majority. If they can't accept me as I am, then that is not the firm for me. Of course, if I am backed against a wall and have no other choice but to, I will pull out a wig or weave and rock that until I gain the experience needed and move on, but I refuse to straighten the naps I have been growing out for years and have grown to love.

As for the skirt v.s. dress pants situation, I didn't know. I guess suspenders are also out of the question for women too, huh?? Interesting!

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Icculus
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Re: Hair?

Postby Icculus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:04 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
dingbat wrote:I don't actually know enough about women's hair style to use the right wording.


...then you shouldn't be commenting.

dingbat wrote:Dreads, whether on a man or a woman, is a career limiting decision


You don't actually know enough about women's hair style but you know enough to deduce the above?

Mmmhmm, sure dude.


yes, he does. While I find that db can sometimes be aggravating (though he has grown on me) he does have relevant corporate experience. I can also say that ahving been in the workforce for 10 years, dreads, whether on a man or a woman, are career limiting because of the assumptions people make. Is it right? No, but it happens. People seem to hate the fact they need to make a decision between personal style and appropriate work style, but you have to. I used to have a very ling, hippie beard. Guess what, I keep that shit trimmed down and kempt now because I am a grown up and know that's what I need to do. Just because dingbat doesn't know women's hair styles does not mean he can't make a judgment about what is acceptable, etc in a corporate environement.

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Icculus
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Re: Hair?

Postby Icculus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:06 pm

BlaqBella wrote:I'm just not one to change who I am most comfortable being to appease to a majority. If they can't accept me as I am, then that is not the firm for me.


This is a wonderful sentiment, and is great when forging interpersonal relationships like friendships and romantic relationships, but you do realize that if your goal is to be employed your appearance matters. Ths sounds a bit like special snowflake syndrome.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:10 pm

Icculus wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
dingbat wrote:I don't actually know enough about women's hair style to use the right wording.


...then you shouldn't be commenting.

dingbat wrote:Dreads, whether on a man or a woman, is a career limiting decision


You don't actually know enough about women's hair style but you know enough to deduce the above?

Mmmhmm, sure dude.


yes, he does. While I find that db can sometimes be aggravating (though he has grown on me) he does have relevant corporate experience. I can also say that ahving been in the workforce for 10 years, dreads, whether on a man or a woman, are career limiting because of the assumptions people make. Is it right? No, but it happens. People seem to hate the fact they need to make a decision between personal style and appropriate work style, but you have to. I used to have a very ling, hippie beard. Guess what, I keep that shit trimmed down and kempt now because I am a grown up and know that's what I need to do. Just because dingbat doesn't know women's hair styles does not mean he can't make a judgment about what is acceptable, etc in a corporate environement.


1.The experience of one in a particular industry/corporate environment is not the blueprint for all.

2. There have been many black men and women who wore dreads whose chosen hairstyles did not "limit their careers" in corporate America.

3. Suddenly we are NOT equating dreads with "appropriate style" and "neat" ??


Yeah, okay. :arrow: :arrow:

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:13 pm

Icculus wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:I'm just not one to change who I am most comfortable being to appease to a majority. If they can't accept me as I am, then that is not the firm for me.


This is a wonderful sentiment, and is great when forging interpersonal relationships like friendships and romantic relationships, but you do realize that if your goal is to be employed your appearance matters. Ths sounds a bit like special snowflake syndrome.


No it sounds like someone who knows who and what they are about and refuse to change a hairstyle for the sake of appeasing to many.

...and FYI, I've been wearing my natural hair in corporate America for 5+ years and counting in a law firm and Fortune 500 company. It's neat, its fly and it sure as h*ll didn't limit my career options.

Whether or not this can jive as a lawyer is why I bumped this thread.

Thank you and good day.
Last edited by BlaqBella on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

talesofyore
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Re: Hair?

Postby talesofyore » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:14 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
talesofyore wrote:I have decide to keep my hair relaxed due to how differently I'm treated by both black and white people when my hair is relaxed. The first day I showed up to a place I used to work, it was like the first time anyone was really seeing me. There was SUCH a marked difference. Also, I went to the same conference one year with natural hair, and the next year with relaxed hair. Nothing changed except my hair, but people were a lot more friendly in the second year.


Yes, I've also noted a difference in how colleagues responded to me when I wore my hair straight (blown out and flat ironed) v.s. in its kinky/curly natural state. That said, I don't think I would wear a relaxer because it just ruins my hair. I've been natural for 7 years and counting and vowed to never return to the creamy-crack, :lol: (hope you're not offended!). I'm thinking of either wearing a customized wig, half-wig or weave and changing it up every few months or so. I still haven't quite figured out what style won't be high maintenance that requires visit to the salon every week/two weeks. Even a weave needs to maintained every day.

Here is a customized wig that looks real but isn't. This was my former stylist/salon, too. Maybe I can wear it curl on some days and straight on the other while still protecting my real hair underneath:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2akwPqVEBwI


I'm not offended at all. :lol: As soon as I'm in a position where people will respect me for my reputation/talent (a long time from now I know :lol: ) I'll probably go back to having one.

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danitt
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Re: Hair?

Postby danitt » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:14 pm

BlaqBella wrote:1.The experience of one in a particular industry/corporate environment is not the blueprint for all.

2. There have been many black men and women who wore dreads whose chosen hairstyles did not "limit their careers" in corporate America.

3. Suddenly we are NOT equating dreads with "appropriate style" and "neat" ??


Yeah, okay. :arrow: :arrow:

Cold hard truth? They were probably brilliant enough that firms were willing to overlook it. Few are.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:17 pm

talesofyore wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
talesofyore wrote:I have decide to keep my hair relaxed due to how differently I'm treated by both black and white people when my hair is relaxed. The first day I showed up to a place I used to work, it was like the first time anyone was really seeing me. There was SUCH a marked difference. Also, I went to the same conference one year with natural hair, and the next year with relaxed hair. Nothing changed except my hair, but people were a lot more friendly in the second year.


Yes, I've also noted a difference in how colleagues responded to me when I wore my hair straight (blown out and flat ironed) v.s. in its kinky/curly natural state. That said, I don't think I would wear a relaxer because it just ruins my hair. I've been natural for 7 years and counting and vowed to never return to the creamy-crack, :lol: (hope you're not offended!). I'm thinking of either wearing a customized wig, half-wig or weave and changing it up every few months or so. I still haven't quite figured out what style won't be high maintenance that requires visit to the salon every week/two weeks. Even a weave needs to maintained every day.

Here is a customized wig that looks real but isn't. This was my former stylist/salon, too. Maybe I can wear it curl on some days and straight on the other while still protecting my real hair underneath:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2akwPqVEBwI


I'm not offended at all. :lol: As soon as I'm in a position where people will respect me for my reputation/talent (a long time from now I know :lol: ) I'll probably go back to having one.


Girl, just don't go bald-headed for corporate America. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

...and make sure to work in a city where there are great stylist that care for your relaxed hair (also try and stretch that re-touch from 6 weeks to 8 weeks). Trust me, your hair will thank you!
Last edited by BlaqBella on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Hair?

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:18 pm

danitt wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:1.The experience of one in a particular industry/corporate environment is not the blueprint for all.

2. There have been many black men and women who wore dreads whose chosen hairstyles did not "limit their careers" in corporate America.

3. Suddenly we are NOT equating dreads with "appropriate style" and "neat" ??


Yeah, okay. :arrow: :arrow:

Cold hard truth? They were probably brilliant enough that firms were willing to overlook it. Few are.


Yeah. Here's to hoping I land an interview with one of those few. :)

talesofyore
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Re: Hair?

Postby talesofyore » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:19 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
Icculus wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
dingbat wrote:I don't actually know enough about women's hair style to use the right wording.


...then you shouldn't be commenting.

dingbat wrote:Dreads, whether on a man or a woman, is a career limiting decision


You don't actually know enough about women's hair style but you know enough to deduce the above?

Mmmhmm, sure dude.


yes, he does. While I find that db can sometimes be aggravating (though he has grown on me) he does have relevant corporate experience. I can also say that ahving been in the workforce for 10 years, dreads, whether on a man or a woman, are career limiting because of the assumptions people make. Is it right? No, but it happens. People seem to hate the fact they need to make a decision between personal style and appropriate work style, but you have to. I used to have a very ling, hippie beard. Guess what, I keep that shit trimmed down and kempt now because I am a grown up and know that's what I need to do. Just because dingbat doesn't know women's hair styles does not mean he can't make a judgment about what is acceptable, etc in a corporate environement.


1.The experience of one in a particular industry/corporate environment is not the blueprint for all.

2. There have been many black men and women who wore dreads whose chosen hairstyles did not "limit their careers" in corporate America.

3. Suddenly we are NOT equating dreads with "appropriate style" and "neat" ??


Yeah, okay. :arrow: :arrow:


I should point out though that America is a LOT more accepting of dreads than a lot of predominantly black countries (at least on the surface). It isn't even an option in many countries in the Caribbean and Africa. So thank God for small mercies. :D

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cinephile
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Re: Hair?

Postby cinephile » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:25 pm

BlaqBella wrote:

I'm just not one to change who I am most comfortable being to appease to a majority. If they can't accept me as I am, then that is not the firm for me.


I have never ever understood this kind of reasoning. You might have to conform to get in, but once you're in you can work to change the culture and maybe make things more welcoming for future applicants in your position. What you're doing only perpetuates the status quo.

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danitt
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Re: Hair?

Postby danitt » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:26 pm

cinephile wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:

I'm just not one to change who I am most comfortable being to appease to a majority. If they can't accept me as I am, then that is not the firm for me.


I have never ever understood this kind of reasoning. You might have to conform to get in, but once you're in you can work to change the culture and maybe make things more welcoming for future applicants in your position. What you're doing only perpetuates the status quo.

It feels like the corporate equivalent of "If you can't handle me at my worst...".

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Hair?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:27 pm

BlaqBella wrote:No it sounds like someone who knows who and what they are about and refuse to change a hairstyle for the sake of appeasing to many.

...and FYI, I've been wearing my natural hair in corporate America for 5+ years and counting in a law firm and Fortune 500 company. It's neat, its fly and it sure as h*ll didn't limit my career options.

Whether or not this can jive as a lawyer is why I bumped this thread.

Thank you and good day.

Then why are you arguing with people here who say it probably doesn't jive as a lawyer? Not remotely saying you have to change your hair, but if you already know you're not going to, why ask?

(Biglaw where I went to LS is really really white. I know one AA woman with long braids, but she's also rocking IP. I have never seen an AA man or woman - or white man or woman, for that matter - pull off dreads in biglaw here. Doesn't mean it can't happen, just saying what I've observed. It's usually short hair on men and straightened hair on women. But again, AA lawyers in biglaw out here make up a really small pool.)

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Icculus
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Re: Hair?

Postby Icculus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:32 pm

danitt wrote:It feels like the corporate equivalent of "If you can't handle me at my worst...".
BlaqBella wrote:
danitt wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:1.The experience of one in a particular industry/corporate environment is not the blueprint for all.

2. There have been many black men and women who wore dreads whose chosen hairstyles did not "limit their careers" in corporate America.

3. Suddenly we are NOT equating dreads with "appropriate style" and "neat" ??


Yeah, okay. :arrow: :arrow:

Cold hard truth? They were probably brilliant enough that firms were willing to overlook it. Few are.


Yeah. Here's to hoping I land an interview with one of those few. :)


I think perhaps you missed danitt's point here. As for your current exeprience, I have no idea where you work, but the east coast and midwest are more conservative than the west coast, so that is a difference. Also, do you work directly with clients? That changes what is acceptable and not acceptable. Not to mention, when applying for legal jobs you need to cast a wide net and deal with the fact that intervieweres have expectations. You can go ahead and wear whatever you want, but know that will limit your options as to whcih firms will want to hire you.

danitt wrote:It feels like the corporate equivalent of "If you can't handle me at my worst...".


+1.




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