I'm half arab/ black

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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geoduck
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby geoduck » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:44 pm

blacklawboss wrote:
JDeterminedF wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:I'm the least hateful person on TLS but Predent/Prelaw I shudder to think your "IGNANT BEHIND" thats right in quotes might someday become a lawyer. Do you know what African American consists of? Heritage? Geographically? It's not a race its belonging to a set of two hyphenated countries that we never chose or adopted the same way we never chose negro or colored! To be of african descent doe's not make you "African American" Someone's plight in in the continent of Africa is not related to AA plight in USA. check the Nigerians who come via the UK and fill Medical schools and engineering schools. do you think they need a urm bump??? were their ancestors put in cages no! they have the same culture not as they had 2000 years ago. Check your facts please,.... THATS A LAWYERS JOB!


This is incorrect. The affects of slavery and discrimination were not confined to America or this continent. Don’t be so certain a Nigerian today would have the same culture as 2000 years ago since all of Africa was colonized and exploited by European powers; some parts as late as the 1990’s. So whether an African was caged and sent the Western Hemisphere or whether he/she was stuck on the African continent, the struggle against racist ideology is something that has affected all people of African heritage.

As far as the OP, like I said. You are black. The option on an app is going to say Black/African American. If you’re a naturalized citizen, you’re an African American as well.



I'm done with this dying thread. Sorry guys the Boss has left the building


Seeya! :D

And I was just getting ready to ask you why I deserve a URM boost since my people (Aztec) were slaughtered by my people (Spanish), all of which has shit to do with America and Affirmative Action. Oya, URM is about representation percentiles, not forgiving America's sins.

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blacklawboss
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:54 pm

geoduck wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:
JDeterminedF wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:I'm the least hateful person on TLS but Predent/Prelaw I shudder to think your "IGNANT BEHIND" thats right in quotes might someday become a lawyer. Do you know what African American consists of? Heritage? Geographically? It's not a race its belonging to a set of two hyphenated countries that we never chose or adopted the same way we never chose negro or colored! To be of african descent doe's not make you "African American" Someone's plight in in the continent of Africa is not related to AA plight in USA. check the Nigerians who come via the UK and fill Medical schools and engineering schools. do you think they need a urm bump??? were their ancestors put in cages no! they have the same culture not as they had 2000 years ago. Check your facts please,.... THATS A LAWYERS JOB!


This is incorrect. The affects of slavery and discrimination were not confined to America or this continent. Don’t be so certain a Nigerian today would have the same culture as 2000 years ago since all of Africa was colonized and exploited by European powers; some parts as late as the 1990’s. So whether an African was caged and sent the Western Hemisphere or whether he/she was stuck on the African continent, the struggle against racist ideology is something that has affected all people of African heritage.


As far as the OP, like I said. You are black. The option on an app is going to say Black/African American. If you’re a naturalized citizen, you’re an African American as well.



I'm done with this dying thread. Sorry guys the Boss has left the building


Seeya! :D

And I was just getting ready to ask you why I deserve a URM boost since my people (Aztec) were slaughtered by my people (Spanish), all of which has shit to do with America and Affirmative Action. Oya, URM is about representation percentiles, not forgiving America's sins.


Ok since you asked I shall reply. Yes Nigerians and Native Africans have been persecuted on their own soil by Europeans, and Yes your people the Great Aztecs were also slaughtered by the Spanish. Do you know the difference between all of that and AA? I will tell you CULTURE. Your people's culture still remains pure and true. The ceremonies, the language the sense of community. The same for Nigerians. I have quite a few Nigerian buddies and they are tight and when they get together it is a sight to be seen! What is the culture, language, or lineage of AA? Not the same huh? I grew up in Houston, Texas I used to sell the Houston Chronicle in the intersections with my Mexican homies at 13 years old so I relate. How many single Mexican mothers do you see? Even if they are 14 years old with a baby you will have a 14 year old wedding. The sense of community This is why Mexican Americans get a limited URM bump. Yes I know of the injustice, but the world has been filled with Injustice. We don't see Jewish Americans or Bosnian Americans getting a bump either. African Americans were stripped of our heritage and culture. We built this great country on our backs and blood so forgive us for the 6-9 point lsat swing.
And No Beef Geoduck I wanna see you shine the Sun!

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TatNurner
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby TatNurner » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:56 pm

It's always interesting to see an affirmative action debate among URMs. Black law bauss, a few questions/comments:

1) I agree with you that in theory, yes, the past injustices trying to be corrected by AA were perpetrated against African Americans, and thus, they are the rightful recipients of of the URM bump (along with other URMs - Mexican etc), and that it is unjust if there is another group of people, who look similar are coming off and siphoning off these benefits, especially when the intended target is still languishing. Yes Europeans did things up in Nigeria too, but I think it's a stretch to say that the USA has to fix the injustices perpetrated by every European in history.

2) Would you not agree that it is not the fault of the "opportunists" that they benefit from this system, but the fault of those who designed it so poorly in the first place? If those in charge of the educational system really wanted to right past injustice, then they would tighten things up. I mean, honestly speaking, who here is going to pass up a golden ticket? If the tables were turned and you were one of the Nigerians you speak of, would you really forego the opportunity to attend Harvard because you are not entitled to? I think very few people would make this choice. As a side note, I'd like to point out that it's a consistent pattern throughout society that human beings take things that they are not entitled to. Those Nike shoes you have likely worn at some point in time are the result of the approriated labour of some poor Asian, who likely has a worse lot in life than any of us do. I am not saying that OP is entitled to be an opportunist, I'm just pointing out that he is not behaving in a way any of us would not behave, in this particular instance, or in another instance were we have taken something that we are not entitled to, with or without realising.

3) Finally, and I am sure that this is not your intention, but with your comment about British Nigerians, there is the risk of an underlying assumption that any black person, who is not African-American but is in a competitive program can be assumed to be there because of affirmative action (and thus took the place of a deserving African American), when they may have gotten there because they performed just as well, if not better than their non-URM counterparts.

And to finish on a random note, if AA was practiced in the way it technically should be practiced (i.e. historically focused) there would likely still be no black president in the USA, which one could argue is an important milestone, given the history of black people on this continent.

edit: BLbauss: I just saw your comment about injustice. I cbf editing now, gotta be productive. Take what you will.

On a side note, I don't buy the argument that AA is suppose to fix representation. Seems like an easy out to me. Wanting to achieve representation opens up a whole can of worms. The likely answer is that, as with anything, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Last edited by TatNurner on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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blacklawboss
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:05 pm

TatNurner wrote:It's always interesting to see an affirmative action debate among URMs. Black law bauss, a few questions/comments:

1) I agree with you that in theory, yes, the past injustices trying to be corrected by AA were perpetrated against African Americans, and thus, they are the rightful recipients of of the URM bump (along with other URMs - Mexican etc), and that it is unjust if there is another group of people, who look similar are coming off and siphoning off these benefits, especially when the intended target is still languishing. Yes Europeans did things up in Nigeria too, but I think it's a stretch to say that the USA has to fix the injustices perpetrated by every European in history.

2) Would you not agree that it is not the fault of the "opportunists" that they benefit from this system, but the fault of those who designed it so poorly in the first place? If those in charge of the educational system really wanted to right past injustice, then they would tighten things up. I mean, honestly speaking, who here is going to pass up a golden ticket? If the tables were turned and you were one of the Nigerians you speak of, would you really forego the opportunity to attend Harvard because you are not entitled to? I think very few people would make this choice. As a side note, I'd like to point out that it's a consistent pattern throughout society that human beings take things that they are not entitled to. Those Nike shoes you have likely worn at some point in time are the result of the approriated labour of some poor Asian, who likely has a worse lot in life than any of us do. I am not saying that OP is entitled to be an opportunist, I'm just pointing out that he is not behaving in a way any of us would not behave, in this particular instance, or in another instance were we have taken something that we are not entitled to, with or without realising.

3) Finally, and I am sure that this is not your intention, but with your comment about British Nigerians, there is the risk of an underlying assumption that any black person, who is not African-American but is in a competitive program can be assumed to be there because of affirmative action (and thus took the place of a deserving African American), when they may have gotten there because they performed just as well, if not better than their non-URM counterparts.

And to finish on a random note, if AA was practiced in the way it technically should be practiced (i.e. historically focused) there would likely still be no black president in the USA, which one could argue is an important milestone, given the history of black people on this continent.


I didn't fault OP he asked an honest question and I respect that totally. The thing that separates us "future lawyers" from Normal citizens are ETHICS Sooner or later Op will go in front of the Bar association and he will be questioned about his cultural ethnicity and that could be a possible hinderance to his legal career. His foresight made him ask that question.
And t address point 3. It was my intention to point out how truly qualified the British Nigerians are when they enter competitive programs.

And on your last point our President is an American spent most of his life here and he was undoubtably raised as an AA by his white mother, whereas OP's dad wanted no parts of that .

dkt4
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby dkt4 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:12 pm

dkt4 wrote:edit to add...

affirmative action type bumps for "african americans" were originally designed to help former slaves in the USA (and their descendants) recuperate from centuries of disenfranchisement, exploitation, racism, political inequity, and slavery. the negative effects of US racial inequalities can and do effect black people from backgrounds that do not fall into that category, and subsequently those people often choose to take advantage of the 'bump' that was originally not intended for them, though that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to take advantage of it.

the hope, in general, was to uplift black american slavery descendants...and whether rightly or wrongly the influx of immigrants from Africa/Carribbean/South America who are "Black" has watered down the success of those attempts. however, you could easily and fairly make the argument that black persons from south america and the carribbean had very similar racial experiences to black american slavery descendants and thus should be able to take advantage of those same bumps. you could similarly make the argument that african immigrants and their descendants have been disadvantaged to an equal, greater, or similar extent and should also benefit.


cuz i edited this in.

i also wanted to add one thing -- i don't think its a mistake to allow a broad definition of black. narrow definitions of black (and class/color consciousness within the black community) have historically caused problems. one of the most notable was the brown paper bag test that started at howard.

anyway, URM bumps have done very little in general to assuage the problems they originally set out to fix within the black american community. one negative effect has been that people who have no connection to american slavery other than by proxy have had advantages afforded to them that were not originally intended. it has, in some ways, masked some of the social problems that persist within the black american slave-descendant community.

that said, the URM bump for non slave-descedants and non-american blacks has had many positive effects, as well. there is no doubt in my mind that for the black american community in particular, the influx of african and carribbean immigrants (mostly in the last 50 years) has positively affected the black community in many ways (obama is a decent example). further, simply having black/brown faces in a room helps to break down racial prejudices in my mind...though the work is slow.

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blacklawboss
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:21 pm

dkt4 wrote:
dkt4 wrote:edit to add...

affirmative action type bumps for "african americans" were originally designed to help former slaves in the USA (and their descendants) recuperate from centuries of disenfranchisement, exploitation, racism, political inequity, and slavery. the negative effects of US racial inequalities can and do effect black people from backgrounds that do not fall into that category, and subsequently those people often choose to take advantage of the 'bump' that was originally not intended for them, though that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to take advantage of it.

the hope, in general, was to uplift black american slavery descendants...and whether rightly or wrongly the influx of immigrants from Africa/Carribbean/South America who are "Black" has watered down the success of those attempts. however, you could easily and fairly make the argument that black persons from south america and the carribbean had very similar racial experiences to black american slavery descendants and thus should be able to take advantage of those same bumps. you could similarly make the argument that african immigrants and their descendants have been disadvantaged to an equal, greater, or similar extent and should also benefit.


cuz i edited this in.

i also wanted to add one thing -- i don't think its a mistake to allow a broad definition of black. narrow definitions of black (and class/color consciousness within the black community) have historically caused problems. one of the most notable was the brown paper bag test that started at howard.

anyway, URM bumps have done very little in general to assuage the problems they originally set out to fix within the black american community. one negative effect has been that people who have no connection to american slavery other than by proxy have had advantages afforded to them that were not originally intended. it has, in some ways, masked some of the social problems that persist within the black american slave-descendant community.

that said, the URM bump for non slave-descedants and non-american blacks has had many positive effects, as well. there is no doubt in my mind that for the black american community in particular, the influx of african and carribbean immigrants (mostly in the last 50 years) has positively affected the black community in many ways (obama is a decent example). further, simply having black/brown faces in a room helps to break down racial prejudices in my mind...though the work is slow.


I agree with you totally except one issue. Black people from the Caribbean and South American Immerse themselves in the same communities that we live in, they trade commerce with us and we marry their daughters. It's not the same for immigrants from the African continent many of them don't recognize us as being african because we aren't. We are more American then most of the white faces we are surrounded by (note I LOVE WHITE PEOPLE) . We have no ties to Africa so it is a rightful judgement on their part. A black person doe's not have to be a direct descendant of american slavery as long as he contributes to our race and culture like Obama.

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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby geoduck » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:24 pm

blacklawboss wrote:
geoduck wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:
I'm done with this dying thread. Sorry guys the Boss has left the building


Seeya! :D

And I was just getting ready to ask you why I deserve a URM boost since my people (Aztec) were slaughtered by my people (Spanish), all of which has shit to do with America and Affirmative Action. Oya, URM is about representation percentiles, not forgiving America's sins.


Ok since you asked I shall reply. Yes Nigerians and Native Africans have been persecuted on their own soil by Europeans, and Yes your people the Great Aztecs were also slaughtered by the Spanish. Do you know the difference between all of that and AA? I will tell you CULTURE. Your people's culture still remains pure and true. The ceremonies, the language the sense of community. The same for Nigerians. I have quite a few Nigerian buddies and they are tight and when they get together it is a sight to be seen! What is the culture, language, or lineage of AA? Not the same huh? I grew up in Houston, Texas I used to sell the Houston Chronicle in the intersections with my Mexican homies at 13 years old so I relate. How many single Mexican mothers do you see? Even if they are 14 years old with a baby you will have a 14 year old wedding. The sense of community This is why Mexican Americans get a limited URM bump. Yes I know of the injustice, but the world has been filled with Injustice. We don't see Jewish Americans or Bosnian Americans getting a bump either. African Americans were stripped of our heritage and culture. We built this great country on our backs and blood so forgive us for the 6-9 point lsat swing.
And No Beef Geoduck I wanna see you shine the Sun!


I would disagree that our cultures have remained pure and true. Just try to find how many people still speak Nahuatl. But that's a totally separate issue. If it were all about culture, then a lot more groups would get bumps, as you say. URM is a representation equation. Even if you are a well off African American who went Ivy League the whole way, you still get the bump. I see that you are taking exception to the idea of African Naturalized Citizens being representing agents of African-Americans. This would be a bigger issue if we were using quotas in which only so many 'black' people got to go to school. Fortunately, we are using a boost system. If an admin wants to give a boost to a Naturalized Citizen of African heritage, there is no damage done to African-Americans. The end goal is to make the legal system as colorful as possible to prevent all judicial power from being in the hands of a single culture. To this goal, all diversity is good.

Going back to the OP, as long as he doesn't lie and just presents the information that he gave us, it is up to the admissions staff as to whether they want to boost him or not. If they choose to, I have no problem with it. He's adding more variety to the system.

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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby dkt4 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 pm

blacklawboss wrote:I agree with you totally except one issue. Black people from the Caribbean and South American Immerse themselves in the same communities that we live in, they trade commerce with us and we marry their daughters. It's not the same for immigrants from the African continent many of them don't recognize us as being african because we aren't. We are more American then most of the white faces we are surrounded by (note I LOVE WHITE PEOPLE) . We have no ties to Africa so it is a rightful judgement on their part. A black person doe's not have to be a direct descendant of american slavery as long as he contributes to our race and culture like Obama.



i think its fair to make the distinction, but i think it may be a bit overstated. black carribbean immigrants have been moving to the US for a very long period of time. that starts happening in the early 1900s at a pretty high rate, especially to places like florida, louisiana to an extent, and new york. the increase in african immigrants to the US has really only started to pick up in the last 40-50 years (primarily to NY and DC, but other places as well). the carribbean and af-am cultures have been mixing for longer...but i do think that the african & african-american cultural exchange is happening more and more.

personally, as a descendant of slaves from tennessee or whatever, i often recognize some cultural cues with a lot of black folks from the same background and miss out on others that carribbean and african immigrants share with each other. i grew up in CA -- which doesn't have a ton of african/carribbean immigrants -- so most of my black friends from back home all shared the 'slave-descendant' experience. but i would say that a good 1/3 to 1/2 of my black friends in undergrad were of either carribbean or african descent...so there's a cultural mixing that is taking place with both groups.

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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby LLB2JD » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:30 pm

...peeks, and then leaves through the back door..

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blacklawboss
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:36 pm

geoduck wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:
geoduck wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:
I'm done with this dying thread. Sorry guys the Boss has left the building


Seeya! :D

And I was just getting ready to ask you why I deserve a URM boost since my people (Aztec) were slaughtered by my people (Spanish), all of which has shit to do with America and Affirmative Action. Oya, URM is about representation percentiles, not forgiving America's sins.


Ok since you asked I shall reply. Yes Nigerians and Native Africans have been persecuted on their own soil by Europeans, and Yes your people the Great Aztecs were also slaughtered by the Spanish. Do you know the difference between all of that and AA? I will tell you CULTURE. Your people's culture still remains pure and true. The ceremonies, the language the sense of community. The same for Nigerians. I have quite a few Nigerian buddies and they are tight and when they get together it is a sight to be seen! What is the culture, language, or lineage of AA? Not the same huh? I grew up in Houston, Texas I used to sell the Houston Chronicle in the intersections with my Mexican homies at 13 years old so I relate. How many single Mexican mothers do you see? Even if they are 14 years old with a baby you will have a 14 year old wedding. The sense of community This is why Mexican Americans get a limited URM bump. Yes I know of the injustice, but the world has been filled with Injustice. We don't see Jewish Americans or Bosnian Americans getting a bump either. African Americans were stripped of our heritage and culture. We built this great country on our backs and blood so forgive us for the 6-9 point lsat swing.
And No Beef Geoduck I wanna see you shine the Sun!


I would disagree that our cultures have remained pure and true. Just try to find how many people still speak Nahuatl. But that's a totally separate issue. If it were all about culture, then a lot more groups would get bumps, as you say. URM is a representation equation. Even if you are a well off African American who went Ivy League the whole way, you still get the bump. I see that you are taking exception to the idea of African Naturalized Citizens being representing agents of African-Americans. This would be a bigger issue if we were using quotas in which only so many 'black' people got to go to school. Fortunately, we are using a boost system. If an admin wants to give a boost to a Naturalized Citizen of African heritage, there is no damage done to African-Americans. The end goal is to make the legal system as colorful as possible to prevent all judicial power from being in the hands of a single culture. To this goal, all diversity is good.

Going back to the OP, as long as he doesn't lie and just presents the information that he gave us, it is up to the admissions staff as to whether they want to boost him or not. If they choose to, I have no problem with it. He's adding more variety to the system.


I agree with your point as far as color in the legal system 1000% I take no exception to naturalized African citizens getting a bump at all. My only point was that Op wasn't African American. Most of the so called "Middle East" is in Africa. Egypt, Libya and Morocco all belong to Africa and they can't shake it if they wanted to. If you find a citizen of those countries in American 99.999 times out of 100 they won't ever refer to themselves as AA. And a black man who went IVY league all the way is an extreme rarity and probably less than 1% of our population so the rules shouldn't be adjusted for such a minute fraction, my son will be attending Phillips Exeter in the fall and whatever Ivy league college after that but he still won't be on the same playing field as his white counterparts for some time so he is due a bump if needed. I see your stats you don't need much of a bump and neither did dkt4 at all, but the majority of us myself included definitely benefitted from it.

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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:36 pm

LLB2JD wrote:...peeks, and then leaves through the back door..


Smart man

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TatNurner
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby TatNurner » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:02 pm

bauss wrote:I agree with you totally except one issue. Black people from the Caribbean and South American Immerse themselves in the same communities that we live in, they trade commerce with us and we marry their daughters. It's not the same for immigrants from the African continent many of them don't recognize us as being african because we aren't. We are more American then most of the white faces we are surrounded by (note I LOVE WHITE PEOPLE) . We have no ties to Africa so it is a rightful judgement on their part. A black person doe's not have to be a direct descendant of american slavery as long as he contributes to our race and culture like Obama.


Dont have time to make full argument, but bauss you are using awfully big brush strokes there. I never thought I would have to make this statement to another black person, but Africans are not a monolithic entity.

As a fun example, I will leave you with this clip of 50 cent's reception in Angola, to see whether I can shake your concreted perceptions about the way Africans feel about African Americans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNq0wt1FZMg

A more serious example to back up my argument can be found in the African Union which subscribes to Pan Africanism:

The Constitutive Act of the AU declares that it shall "invite and encourage the full participation of the African diaspora as an important part of our Continent, in the building of the African Union". The African Union Government has defined the African diaspora as "consisting of people of African origin living outside the continent, irrespective of their citizenship and nationality and who are willing to contribute to the development of the continent and the building of the African Union".


Obviously your perceptions are based on experiences you have had, and I cant fault you for that, but Africans are not as anti-African American as you seem to suggest.
Last edited by TatNurner on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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geoduck
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby geoduck » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:03 pm

blacklawboss wrote:
geoduck wrote:I would disagree that our cultures have remained pure and true. Just try to find how many people still speak Nahuatl. But that's a totally separate issue. If it were all about culture, then a lot more groups would get bumps, as you say. URM is a representation equation. Even if you are a well off African American who went Ivy League the whole way, you still get the bump. I see that you are taking exception to the idea of African Naturalized Citizens being representing agents of African-Americans. This would be a bigger issue if we were using quotas in which only so many 'black' people got to go to school. Fortunately, we are using a boost system. If an admin wants to give a boost to a Naturalized Citizen of African heritage, there is no damage done to African-Americans. The end goal is to make the legal system as colorful as possible to prevent all judicial power from being in the hands of a single culture. To this goal, all diversity is good.

Going back to the OP, as long as he doesn't lie and just presents the information that he gave us, it is up to the admissions staff as to whether they want to boost him or not. If they choose to, I have no problem with it. He's adding more variety to the system.


I agree with your point as far as color in the legal system 1000% I take no exception to naturalized African citizens getting a bump at all. My only point was that Op wasn't African American. Most of the so called "Middle East" is in Africa. Egypt, Libya and Morocco all belong to Africa and they can't shake it if they wanted to. If you find a citizen of those countries in American 99.999 times out of 100 they won't ever refer to themselves as AA. And a black man who went IVY league all the way is an extreme rarity and probably less than 1% of our population so the rules shouldn't be adjusted for such a minute fraction, my son will be attending Phillips Exeter in the fall and whatever Ivy league college after that but he still won't be on the same playing field as his white counterparts for some time so he is due a bump if needed. I see your stats you don't need much of a bump and neither did dkt4 at all, but the majority of us myself included definitely benefitted from it.


Thanks for the comments on my stats. I agree that I don't need much of a bump, but the little bit I am getting is definitely helping me have better choices for my career. My father didn't have those opportunities so he was pretty insistant that I got a good education. Hopefully your son will be the same and will be a part of the <1% that really doesn't need a boost. For the OP, it might really not be appropriate to mark AA, but I still think it depends on the sheet and how he explains it in his diversity statement. Some have a lot of options and allow you to be very specific or even an other section. Others... maybe 5 check boxes that are somehow supposed to cover all of the globe. You've gotta admit that the hyphenation of African and American makes it an awkward term for people in his circumstances, though I can't think of any good alternatives.

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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby jd20132013 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:09 pm

These types of arguments could be shortened considerably if we defined what we believe the purpose of giving this URM boost is.

Is it to help the individual compensate for personal injustices that he/she may have suffered aws a member of a particular minority group? That's plausible, since studies demonstrate continued unconscious prejudice against people that "look black"(regardless of whether they're African-American, African, or even Arabian/African)

If it's to help there be better representation of Blacks in the legal profession(there could be several reasons for this, but one big reason in my mind is to present kids with positive role models that they can look to and see that they can do it too). In that case again it seems that if you look "Black enough" to have experienced the mistreatment associated with looking black, you deserve the boost.


if it's to redress specific socioeconomic wrongs from the enslavement of African-Americans, then I think you have an argument against Africans and other non- AA's benefiting. But even if that's a factor I think it's not the only factor. So I think there's strong reason to advocate for allowing non-AAs that "appear AA"(as slippery a definition as that is) to benefit from the URM Boost.

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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby dkt4 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:36 pm

i would argue the original purpose of URM boosts was mostly intended to correct socio-economic and political wrong-doings over the course of a long period of time that have manifested themselves into racial prejudices.

that's probably changed over the course of the last 50-60 years, though.

overall, what the original intent of affirmative-action type programs was doesn't really change the reality that exists today -- i'm a firm believer that everyone is affected by racial prejudices, and often people who aren't in one racial or ethnic group still experience similar things to a certain extent.

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Alltheirsplendor
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby Alltheirsplendor » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:06 pm

Matthew_V wrote:Im middle-eastern/black. I was born in Oman. I do "look" arab. Although my father is black and very much looks black, he doesn't claim that part of his racial make-up at all and he would never claim to be of african decient. Its a taboo issue, little complicated, but it is what is...my question: although i clearly am URM, if i marked african american, wouldnt raise some issues with the Bar since i was born in a middle eastern country? How would they go about finding out? It should be noted that i also classified my race as AA on my college application.


This post is a bit confusing. Could you clarify, please?

If your father wouldn't claim he is of African descent, I'm unsure what justifies your making that claim. Do you mean your Dad is African but just doesn't identify as such? And we still don't know what your background actually is other than the fact you were born in Oman and look a little Arab.

Until a clarification it's hard to make a call.

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Grizz
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby Grizz » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:31 pm

This thread is starting to look like every other AA debate thread in the history of TLS. Congrats yall.

wishful2012
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby wishful2012 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:29 pm

Matthew_V wrote:Im middle-eastern/black. I was born in Oman. I do "look" arab. Although my father is black and very much looks black, he doesn't claim that part of his racial make-up at all and he would never claim to be of african decient. Its a taboo issue, little complicated, but it is what is...my question: although i clearly am URM, if i marked african american, wouldnt raise some issues with the Bar since i was born in a middle eastern country? How would they go about finding out? It should be noted that i also classified my race as AA on my college application.


i'm trying to understand this..did you grow up in the united states? this is sort of like a black latino (dominican or puerto rican) in a sense, no? while your father may appear to be black, if he culturally doesn't identify with it and more strongly identifies with his omani heritage, then i don't think you, especially considering that you don't appear to be black, have much of a legitimate grounds to claim it. however, i do understand that middle eastern countries are very xenophobic and prejudiced towards sub-saharan africans, so it could warrant a great diversity statement. as the daughter of an african parent who grew up in africa and a white american parent, i consider myself to be black or african american because i grew up economically disadvantaged in the states and faced discrimination based on my race that other african americans face. i feel as though if you lived in the states and faced discrimination that could be attributed to you being black (and all of the disadvantages that come with that) then you have every right to claim the AA status. it seems as though your claim to AA status is tenuous at best, and it would probably be disingenuous to only mark AA. i would suggest marking both black and arab.

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Moxie
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby Moxie » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:31 pm

Matthew_V wrote:Im middle-eastern/black. I was born in Oman. I do "look" arab. Although my father is black and very much looks black, he doesn't claim that part of his racial make-up at all and he would never claim to be of african decient. Its a taboo issue, little complicated, but it is what is...my question: although i clearly am URM, if i marked african american, wouldnt raise some issues with the Bar since i was born in a middle eastern country? How would they go about finding out? It should be noted that i also classified my race as AA on my college application.


You'd be fine to claim AA in this situation. It seems like you should claim to be AA and Arab, for the sake of honesty.

rad law wrote:This thread is starting to look like every other AA debate thread in the history of TLS. Congrats yall Like every other AA argument, you should all STFU

Miracle
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby Miracle » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:38 pm

Lol. What a discussion?

just write a DS about it!

I have a question. Most of this information is optional! What if you don't check any box?

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Moxie
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Re: I'm half arab/ black

Postby Moxie » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:41 pm

Miracle wrote:Lol. What a discussion?

just write a DS about it!

I have a question. Most of this information is optional! What if you don't check any box?


They assume you're white




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