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(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
dey206
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby dey206 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:56 am

cubswin wrote:
dey206 wrote:No just wanted to get advice for people more like me thats all. They might look at it a little different.

Don't need to look at it negatively. People ask URMs what they think chances on getting in, how they like the school, how the classes are, etc. Why not how studying worked for them? Is that a bad thing??

are you even an URM? how is it akward?


But I mean, it's a bit different. URM-specific questions about admissions make sense because URMs are treated in a distinct way in law school admissions. How they like the school/classes still makes a bit more sense than the question you asked, I think, because there are URM-specific issues there too. Asking how URMs how they study specifically just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and apparently a few other people here, since they are being tested on the same material and graded on the same scale as everybody else.


I agree with that last statement. But again, I just want to hear from people like me on law school in general including study habits. I am not trying to prove anything against URMs or compare them to non URMs. This is just about study habits and advice. That's all. If you think it's akward fine. When I went for a campus visit I asked two URMs a ton of questions including study habits and niether got offensive about it. Small sample size but this is getting out of hand. I have repeatedly said that I am not trying to start drama with this thread I am coming from a good place. If you still feel akward about it then so be it.

cubswin
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby cubswin » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:06 pm

dey206 wrote:
cubswin wrote:
dey206 wrote:No just wanted to get advice for people more like me thats all. They might look at it a little different.

Don't need to look at it negatively. People ask URMs what they think chances on getting in, how they like the school, how the classes are, etc. Why not how studying worked for them? Is that a bad thing??

are you even an URM? how is it akward?


But I mean, it's a bit different. URM-specific questions about admissions make sense because URMs are treated in a distinct way in law school admissions. How they like the school/classes still makes a bit more sense than the question you asked, I think, because there are URM-specific issues there too. Asking how URMs how they study specifically just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and apparently a few other people here, since they are being tested on the same material and graded on the same scale as everybody else.


I agree with that last statement. But again, I just want to hear from people like me on law school in general including study habits. I am not trying to prove anything against URMs or compare them to non URMs. This is just about study habits and advice. That's all. If you think it's akward fine. When I went for a campus visit I asked two URMs a ton of questions including study habits and niether got offensive about it. Small sample size but this is getting out of hand. I have repeatedly said that I am not trying to start drama with this thread I am coming from a good place. If you still feel akward about it then so be it.


Right. I am not offended. Just a bit confused. Aside from that, I think your argument about asking actual students vs. creating this thread is a bit different. In this case, you were talking to two current students and happened to ask them about their study habits. They probably didn't think you were asking them about study habits because they were URMs (at least based on what you told me). It's difficult to think of a good IRL analogy for your thread, but I think they might have thought it a bit more awkward if you said something like "So, as a black law student, how do you study for exams?"

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bk1
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:28 pm

dey206 wrote:But again, I just want to hear from people like me on law school in general including study habits. I am not trying to prove anything against URMs or compare them to non URMs. This is just about study habits and advice. That's all. If you think it's akward fine. When I went for a campus visit I asked two URMs a ton of questions including study habits and niether got offensive about it. Small sample size but this is getting out of hand. I have repeatedly said that I am not trying to start drama with this thread I am coming from a good place. If you still feel akward about it then so be it.


I'm not offended, I just think your question is stupid.

You are more likely to get some useful results were you to ask a better question. You want answers from "people like you" because you feel that they will help you study better. I would hazard that, because this is in the context of studying, that you are more likely to get useful answers from asking people along the lines of something other than race/ethnicity.

For example, if you didn't go to class in undergrad, or you didn't read in undergrad, or you hate standardized tests, or you hate essay tests, or whatever... whichever of those subgroups you ascribe, asking that subgroup for study tips will yield better results than asking people who share your skin color because you share far more in common with the former than the latter in regards to the topic at hand (studying).

parsi
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby parsi » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:29 pm

dey206 wrote:I am looking for advice on studying and what to do for summer 0L.

Any URMs do exceptionally well and would like to help the rest of us with tips?? What worked, what didn't for you?

Also any advice/remarks about OCI and employment in general?

:D Thanks!


This is an easy one....make friends with the smart white kids. They all want a token black friend anyway

dakatz
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby dakatz » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:36 pm

I sort of have to agree that this is a really odd question. I am hispanic, so it is totally understandable for me to ask current hispanic students about what student groups are available, what resources we can utilize, what scholarships or internships are available for hispanic students, etc. But asking how they study? Thats like asking "where is the best place to get lunch", but only asking a tiny sliver of the school population. And it also carried the implication that the URM students would do things differently than non-URM students, which is an implication I'm having a hard time rationalizing. So yes, its certainly an odd question.

As for study habits, don't get too caught up in the minute details of every case or else you will fail to grasp the larger picture. Be efficient with your time during every step of the process (i.e. don't brief if you don't have to, don't try and memorize every detail of every case, etc.). Outline early in the semester so you have time to take practice finals. This is probably the best study advice I can give, but obviously its nothing that a non-URM student couldn't have told you.

whattheheck
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby whattheheck » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:07 pm

I don't find the OP's question odd at all. But I can see how other would.

I tend to ask URM question like these because more often then not I would get a more detailed, non condesending, helpful answer. And that's just that. I noticed that whenever I asked someone who was not a minority, especially at school or at the workplace, I would get a really general answer as if to brush me off. And then I would hear them give detailed info to their own or even go as far as to give them specific written out instructions and walk them through whatever they were asking help in.

I plan on going to Law school during the fall of 2012 and plan on going to the academic support services that are available on campus. Maybe after then when they help me develop a schedule and method of studying, I may venture into to the study groups.

I have also read that if you become a CLEO associate, you will have access to their academic support services. This seems like a great way to start Law School. With an organization that wants nothing more than to see you succeed and provide the tools you'll need to do so.

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bk1
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:19 pm

whattheheck wrote:I tend to ask URM question like these because more often then not I would get a more detailed, non condesending, helpful answer. And that's just that. I noticed that whenever I asked someone who was not a minority, especially at school or at the workplace, I would get a really general answer as if to brush me off. And then I would hear them give detailed info to their own or even go as far as to give them specific written out instructions and walk them through whatever they were asking help in.


I like subtly injected racism in your post.

AztecaRex
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby AztecaRex » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:27 pm

bk1 wrote:
whattheheck wrote:I tend to ask URM question like these because more often then not I would get a more detailed, non condesending, helpful answer. And that's just that. I noticed that whenever I asked someone who was not a minority, especially at school or at the workplace, I would get a really general answer as if to brush me off. And then I would hear them give detailed info to their own or even go as far as to give them specific written out instructions and walk them through whatever they were asking help in.


I like subtly injected racism in your post.


TBF, I have noticed that, on this website at least, URMs (except for the occasional racist who wants to "take down the white patriarchal system") tend to be a bit more congenial (read:less snarky) than the average (non-minority) poster. But then again, I think that might just be because the average white poster is probably upper-middle class and thus may be slightly snobbish with a sense of entitlement (I know that's stereotyping, but what you gonna do), and the average white poster who grew up poor may feel that he/she is being discriminated against--i.e. feels that she should be given the URM boost over, say, an affluent black student.

At any rate, I can't imagine that URMs need special studying tips that differ from non-URMs, so OP, I'd advise you to just look for general studying advice.

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bk1
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:33 pm

AztecaRex wrote:TBF, I have noticed that, on this website at least, URMs (except for the occasional racist who wants to "take down the white patriarchal system") tend to be a bit more congenial (read:less snarky) than the average (non-minority) poster. But then again, I think that might just be because the average white poster is probably upper-middle class and thus may be slightly snobbish with a sense of entitlement (I know that's stereotyping, but what you gonna do), and the average white poster who grew up poor may feel that he/she is being discriminated against--i.e. feels that she should be given the URM boost over, say, an affluent black student.


I would hazard that the average minority poster on TLS is also upper-middle class as well. I have seen plenty of people of every background on TLS post helpful information and be snarky (heck, most of them do both).

AztecaRex wrote:At any rate, I can't imagine that URMs need special studying tips that differ from non-URMs, so OP, I'd advise you to just look for general studying advice.


Agreed. Also, it's not like OP couldn't have just used the search function or read one of the many guides to this topic on TLS...

AztecaRex
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby AztecaRex » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:37 pm

bk1 wrote:
AztecaRex wrote:TBF, I have noticed that, on this website at least, URMs (except for the occasional racist who wants to "take down the white patriarchal system") tend to be a bit more congenial (read:less snarky) than the average (non-minority) poster. But then again, I think that might just be because the average white poster is probably upper-middle class and thus may be slightly snobbish with a sense of entitlement (I know that's stereotyping, but what you gonna do), and the average white poster who grew up poor may feel that he/she is being discriminated against--i.e. feels that she should be given the URM boost over, say, an affluent black student.


I would hazard that the average minority poster on TLS is also upper-middle class as well. I have seen plenty of people of every background on TLS post helpful information and be snarky (heck, most of them do both).


You very well might be right (especially about the average minority poster being upper-middle class)--I was mainly speaking from my own experiences on TLS. Most of the kind, helpful info I've received has been from URMs, but I've definitely gotten good info from people of all backgrounds.

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bk1
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:41 pm

AztecaRex wrote:You very well might be right (especially about the average minority poster being upper-middle class)--I was mainly speaking from my own experiences on TLS.


I think it just feels that way. I don't know whether this applies to you but I think most people assume that a poster is white unless otherwise noted so it is hard to tell. On top of that, the majority of TLS is white and the majority of TLS (especially the most frequent posters) are snarky so it is to conflate the two and see a trend where minority posters are less snarky.

That being said, and this is in general, I hate when people on TLS say "URM" when they should really be saying "minority."

AztecaRex
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby AztecaRex » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:46 pm

cosa?
Last edited by AztecaRex on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ns77770
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby ns77770 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:50 pm

This is going to end well

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Moxie
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby Moxie » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:55 pm

AztecaRex wrote: TBF, I have noticed that, on this website at least, URMs (except for the occasional racist who wants to "take down the white patriarchal system") tend to be a bit more congenial (read:less snarky) than the average (non-minority) poster. But then again, I think that might just be because the average white poster is probably upper-middle class and thus may be slightly snobbish with a sense of entitlement (I know that's stereotyping, but what you gonna do), and the average white poster who grew up poor may feel that he/she is being discriminated against--i.e. feels that she should be given the URM boost over, say, an affluent black student.


ns77770 wrote:This is going to end well

dakatz
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby dakatz » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:01 pm

Ok, now I regret even dignifying OP's implied racist attitudes with an honest response. So white posters are snobbish and have a sense of entitlement or, if they aren't well off, will be envious and hostile because they will resent URM students since they don't get any boost. Let me just give that a second to sink in.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:03 pm

bk1 wrote:
That being said, and this is in general, I hate when people on TLS say "URM" when they should really be saying "minority."

URM differentiates hispanics, blacks, etc. from asians, indians and other "ORMs"

amorfati
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby amorfati » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:25 pm

whattheheck wrote:I don't find the OP's question odd at all. But I can see how other would.

I tend to ask URM question like these because more often then not I would get a more detailed, non condesending, helpful answer. And that's just that. I noticed that whenever I asked someone who was not a minority, especially at school or at the workplace, I would get a really general answer as if to brush me off. And then I would hear them give detailed info to their own or even go as far as to give them specific written out instructions and walk them through whatever they were asking help in.

I plan on going to Law school during the fall of 2012 and plan on going to the academic support services that are available on campus. Maybe after then when they help me develop a schedule and method of studying, I may venture into to the study groups.

I have also read that if you become a CLEO associate, you will have access to their academic support services. This seems like a great way to start Law School. With an organization that wants nothing more than to see you succeed and provide the tools you'll need to do so.


FWIW - and regardless of whether or not that has been your actual experience in the real world - when you post a question on TLS, no one knows your race. (That is, unless they're creepy enough to actually look at your profile/past posts to determine what kind of study advice you should be given based on your race/URM-status. "Ah, a URM... I'll just give him a few sarcastic kernels of wisdom, and save the good stuff for my white brethren...")

Furthermore, URM is very general and could include people of several races/ethnicities. IMO, you are more likely to share more in common with people from a similar socio-economic background or region than other "URMs." (On a side note, and to illustrate, I just found out that I'm 1/32 Cherokee, but I don't think that makes me the type of URM you had in mind... though I do wish I had known this before I sent my applications in! jk, jk... mostly... :? )

cubswin
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby cubswin » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:59 pm

amorfati wrote:Furthermore, URM is very general and could include people of several races/ethnicities. IMO, you are more likely to share more in common with people from a similar socio-economic background or region than other "URMs." (On a side note, and to illustrate, I just found out that I'm 1/32 Cherokee still a white person, but I don't think that makes me the type of URM you had in mind... though I do wish I had known this before I sent my applications in! jk, jk... mostly... :? )

amorfati
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby amorfati » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:22 pm

cubswin wrote:
amorfati wrote:Furthermore, URM is very general and could include people of several races/ethnicities. IMO, you are more likely to share more in common with people from a similar socio-economic background or region than other "URMs." (On a side note, and to illustrate, I just found out that I'm 1/32 Cherokee still a white person, but I don't think that makes me the type of URM you had in mind... though I do wish I had known this before I sent my applications in! jk, jk... mostly... :? )


Precisely my point. The fact that someone might technically qualify as a "URM" may have little to no bearing on his/her ability to relate meaningfully to other "URMs."

(for the record, I don't mean to say that I would or should qualify as a URM - just saying that there are plenty of people who do use the distinction despite the fact that their "URM" experience would be irrelevant to the OP, especially with regards to this question.)

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Moxie
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby Moxie » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:35 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
bk1 wrote:
That being said, and this is in general, I hate when people on TLS say "URM" when they should really be saying "minority."

URM differentiates hispanics, blacks, etc. from asians, indians and other "ORMs"


And it avoids the negative connotations associated with the word "minority."

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lisjjen
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby lisjjen » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:41 pm

I normally study better in a black leather jacket with a powder blue shirt and a black beret.

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bk1
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:39 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
bk1 wrote:
That being said, and this is in general, I hate when people on TLS say "URM" when they should really be saying "minority."

URM differentiates hispanics, blacks, etc. from asians, indians and other "ORMs"


I understand that. They are times when the word URM is appropriate - which is almost exclusively in the context of admissions. Outside of that, people on TLS use the word URM often when it doesn't make sense to differentiate between URMs and ORMs.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:59 pm

bk1 wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:
bk1 wrote:
That being said, and this is in general, I hate when people on TLS say "URM" when they should really be saying "minority."

URM differentiates hispanics, blacks, etc. from asians, indians and other "ORMs"


I understand that. They are times when the word URM is appropriate - which is almost exclusively in the context of admissions. Outside of that, people on TLS use the word URM often when it doesn't make sense to differentiate between URMs and ORMs.

Ah, I agree with that then. I don't know why anyone would use URM outside of the admissions context. Weirdos.

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mez06
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby mez06 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:11 pm

If some of you are so offended by the comments then just let the thread die. Instead you carry on in a conversation for the sake of reiterating your initial point over and over again until you notice the thread burnt into your mental Rolodex.

If anything, you give the thread validity in life by not doing the practical thing-- s(ing)tfu. This topic is by no means a rant worthy thread that requires 5 different individuals to say the same thing in 3 different ways. It's clear that the question was worded poorly. However, it is also clear of the OP's intent--being non-malicious.

In short, give it a rest.

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bk1
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Re: Calling all URM 1L-2L-3Ls..how to study?

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:14 pm

mez06 wrote:If some of you are so offended by the comments then just let the thread die. Instead you carry on in a conversation for the sake of reiterating your initial point over and over again until you notice the thread burnt into your mental Rolodex.

If anything, you give the thread validity in life by not doing the practical thing-- s(ing)tfu. This topic is by no means a rant worthy thread that requires 5 different individuals to say the same thing in 3 different ways. It's clear that the question was worded poorly. However, it is also clear of the OP's intent--being non-malicious.

In short, give it a rest.


I'm not offended, I just like to point out stupidity. People bump things on here that they disagree with all the time. Welcome to internet forums, it's how they work.




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